Do You Still "TRUST THE PROCESS"?

[HIT BY SPIKES]

12 hours ago, Southern_Bills said:

I don't, on the plus side the team took my expectations to below zero in one week.

 

I hope management is looking for a coaching change at the end of the year. Seems like a coaching change to try and revive Allen is the only path forward. Get us an offensive coach please.

 

Let's talk about how that would happen.

 

The Pegulas hired HC Sean McCollapsy BEFORE they hired GM Beane.

 

Some argue that it was McClappy that chose and brought in Beane.

 

So can we realistically expect Beane to fire the HC hired by the Owners on the recommendation of the HC?

 

I doubt it.

 

Only the Pegulas can be behind the effort to fire Sean and by pressuring the GM to do so and the GM may refuse given the above.

 

That is what is called in the Organization Behavioural World dysfunctional.

 

Terry knows where to find gas to frack.

 

He never made his billions in a business where the only resource is people.

 

I have argued since Terry Pegula bought the team that he needs an experienced NFL Executive to report to him and the GM should report to that individual.

 

Until that happens, this clown show of management accountability will sadly continue.

 

I will leave it to others to point to those rare circumstances where a NFL team has won it all with a worse head coach than McDermott or a much poorer early round drafter and evalulator of OL talent than Beane or more dysfunctional management structure than the Bills currently have.

 

Hey, at least the Sabres and Bills are still in Buffalo eh?

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by HIT BY SPIKES

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, HIT BY SPIKES said:

 

Let's talk about how that would happen.

 

The Pegulas hired HC Sean McCollapsy BEFORE they hired GM Beane.

 

Some argue that it was McClappy that chose and brought in Beane.

 

So can we realistically expect Beane to fire the HC hired by the Owners on the recommendation of the HC?

 

I doubt it.

 

Only the Pegulas can be behind the effort to fire Sean and by pressuring the GM to do so and the GM may refuse given the above.

 

That is what is called in the Organization Behavioural World dysfunctional.

 

Terry knows where to find gas to frack.

 

He never made his billions in a business where the only resource is people.

 

I have argued since Terry Pegula bought the team that he needs an experienced NFL Executive to report to him and the GM should report to that individual.

 

Until that happens, this clown show of management accountability will sadly continue.

 

I will leave it to others to point to those rare circumstances where a NFL team has won it all with a worse head coach than McDermott or a much poorer early round drafter and evalulator of OL talent than Beane or more dysfunctional management structure than the Bills currently have.

 

Hey, at least the Sabres and Bills are still in Buffalo eh?

 

 

It isn't dysfunctional. McDermott and Beane both report to Pegula. You make it sound as if the only way to win in the NFL is a traditional linear structure... where the Owner hires a Chief Exec / President, who hires a GM, who hires a HC. That isn't how the Pats have been structured. It isn't how the Chiefs are structured. It wasn't how the Buccs were structured. It isn't how the 49ers are structured. 

 

Are they all dysfunctional too? 

 

This is another way of you saying "I don't like McDermott and unless he is fired I will moan endlessly." 

[HIT BY SPIKES]

50 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It isn't dysfunctional. McDermott and Beane both report to Pegula. You make it sound as if the only way to win in the NFL is a traditional linear structure... where the Owner hires a Chief Exec / President, who hires a GM, who hires a HC. That isn't how the Pats have been structured. It isn't how the Chiefs are structured. It wasn't how the Buccs were structured. It isn't how the 49ers are structured. 

 

Are they all dysfunctional too? 

 

This is another way of you saying "I don't like McDermott and unless he is fired I will moan endlessly." 

 

That is what you read, understood and interpreted from my post?

 

OK.

 

Under advisement, I shall discontinue this engagement with you under fear of moderation in response to what I would like to say now.

Edited September 14, 2023 by HIT BY SPIKES

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 9/12/2023 at 7:37 PM, HIT BY SPIKES said:

I always attempt to show some restraint not to over react to just one game negatively or positively however the pattern is pretty obvious now.

 

13 seconds

 

Bengals Play-offs' earlier this year

 

Last night (name to follow)

 

We find ways to lose.

 

I appreciate to the fans who have lived through the dark ages post-Jimbo have an admiration for this current Bills regime for getting us back into the play-offs on a regular basis, securing a true franchise QB and bringing Buffalo Proud back to the Buffalo Bills fandom.

 

I get that.

 

"Saviours" may be too highly a label to bestow upon this regime given Terry Pegula already took that title for first buying the Buffalo Sabres and then the Buffalo Bills and securing their futures in Buffalo.

 

I also get that.

 

However:

 

(1) Does Sean McDermott have what it takes to win the biggest games?  

 

(2) Sean McDermott is said to be a defensive minded coach and has been there for a number of years banging the table for an one sided investment of high draft picks, salary cap and free agency pursuits into the defensive side of the ball yet our defence and special teams continue to collapse in pivotal times of key games.  Why?

 

(3) Is Beane's inability to build an average NFL OL to give our franchise QB an extra 1/4 second to scan the field before making a decision to pass, run or throw the ball away or to allow us to run the ball successfully when we have a 10 point lead a fundamental obstacle to this regimes ability to finally deliver us a Buffalo Bills Super Bowl Championship?

 

(4) Do you still TRUST THE PROCESSTM?

I never really did trust the process . I always felt like McBeane are like a couple politicians big talk no real action. I realize they are builders but not real architects meaning they can take a program and turn it around with basics like culture and being very organized instilling work ethic etc etc basically the really good at the small things we don’t see on a day to day basis . 
 

What there not good at is obvious and no one can tell me anything different it is asset management and drafting. The 2017 draft was constructed by Whaley and his scouting staff as well as the free agent period we hit jackpots on Tre, Dion, Milano and in free agency we got Hyde & Poyer . Till this day these guys are still foundational pieces for this organization. In 2018 Beane got his chance at the draft and also started with a bang drafting the likes of Allen, Edmunds, Taron and Teller . But the problem started in the upcoming draft starting in 2019 let’s take a look . 
 

2019 draft 

1st rd Ed Oliver - has turned out to be the worst of a great class of DTs as all the players drafted after him in the first are much better then him Wilkins, Lawrence & Simmons are all studs . 
 

2nd rd -Cody Ford Bust we also traded up for this bust so it hurt more then 1 Pk 

 

3rd Singletary - obvious bkup caliber running  bk 

 

3rd Knox - probably the best Pk in this draft 

the rest of this draft are all out of the league.

 

2020 I call this one JAG CITY!

 

2nd rd Epenesa - Jag

3rd rd Moss  - bkup caliber  🗑 

4th rd Gabe - good #2 Wr best Pk of draft

5th - Bass good kicker

6th - Hodgins solid Wr good role player on another team

7th Dane Jackson - solid #2 CB 

 

A bunch of singles no home runs and it’s about to get worse in upcoming drafts. 
 

2021 - It’s about to get Worse 😂 

 

1st - Rouse - So far he’s grown every yr and might be headed for pro bowl considerations this yr easily the best Pk of this draft . 

 

2nd Boogie- Major Bust

3rd Spencer Brown- Horrible starting RT more suited for bkup role

5th - Tommy Doyle 🗑 

6th- Stevenson 🗑 

6th - Hamlin bkup at best

6th- Wildgoose 🗑 

7th- Anderson 🗑 

 

this draft was a disaster other then Rouse 

 

2022

1st- Elam so far he’s in street clothes not a good sign 

 

2nd Cook- I know he starts but he’s not a starter in this league he’s more suited for pass catching work essentially he’s a 3rd down back even his college team knew this somehow the Bills didn’t get the memo . Btw can’t break a tackle if his life depends on it. 

3rd Bernard- Undersized more like tweener type player seen him get abused by TEs against the Jets not a hood sign .

 

5th Shakir - Might have talent but so far role player 

 

6th- Benford So far he’s the best Pk of this draft looks like a good player that can play in this league . 
 

6th Tenuta 🗑 

7th Spector 🗑 

 

Now these drafts are less then average after the 2018 draft seems like at best a bunch of role players . Basically McBeane is the Ichiro Suzuki of NFL draft they get on base but no home runs . But he’s more like the older version of Ichiro not the hof version, 😂.  
 

Basically these guys have peaked at there build of this team. We need someone to come in a add to what they have done to finish the job. We need to get a regime that can build a wall in front of Allen protect him give him some difference makers which this team is lacking big time. We need an offensive minded head coach that can properly manage lead Josh Allen to reaching his potential. We need real running backs that are big strong 3 down backs not these bkup caliber players McBeane has brought us at the position. Seems like every running back they bring here is either old and past there primes or just small and underwhelming like Singletary and Cook . McBeane is the worst regime I ever seen at scouting running back talent in Bills history.  No so I don’t buy in on the process I would actually love to see the process shipped out! 

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He was on Monday and to be honest his performances since the Green Bay game last year..... are those of a QB on a team that is good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to win it all. We need Josh to play better if we are going to win a Superbowl. Since the middle of last season he hasn't played well enough. 

The coaches don't seem to be able to get enough out of Allen.  If the don't by end of this year, someone needs to decide if we move on from Allen, or move on from McDermott.  So far the combination is not championship caliber. 

[Radar]

5 minutes ago, Chaos said:

The coaches don't seem to be able to get enough out of Allen.  If the don't by end of this year, someone needs to decide if we move on from Allen, or move on from McDermott.  So far the combination is not championship caliber. 

I would be shocked if the thought of moving on from Josh would even be a consideration. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Chaos said:

The coaches don't seem to be able to get enough out of Allen.  If the don't by end of this year, someone needs to decide if we move on from Allen, or move on from McDermott.  So far the combination is not championship caliber. 

 

Based on what? I don't think it is coaching. Josh has always been an impulsive football player. It was one of the things I didn't like on hi Wyoming tape he was so instinctive I didn't always see evidence that he could win his brain. There was a period in 2020 however when he seemed master of all he commanded. I just fear we haven't seen that for some time. Could it be that coaching has 'caused' a regression? I mean it could but I am not sold that there is any real evidence to support that. I think the impulsiveness of Josh as a personality is just taking over. Almost like Mr Hyde is breaking out over the cerebral De Jekyll. That impulsiveness has always been there. It is controlling his mind that I think we need to address. I'd start with a psychologist not a football coach. 

 

I also think, and I have said this elsewhere, that there is something outside of football going on at the moment. He looked like a zombie in the playoff loss to Cincy and it was the same on Monday. I remember when Josh would get mad at himself about mistakes. Or he'd get flustered. We are not even seeing that at the moment we are seeing a guy who mentally just doesn't look dialled in, doesn't sound dialled in when he speaks. His post game presser was odd. I'm not saying it is the Hollywood girlfriend or anything else specifically. I don't know. But something is off with him. 

2 minutes ago, Radar said:

I would be shocked if the thought of moving on from Josh would even be a consideration. 

 

Agree, so would I. But I'm not sure moving on from the coaching staff if we have a Quarterback issue this season should be the answer either. We have to find solutions. 

[Chaos]

16 minutes ago, Radar said:

I would be shocked if the thought of moving on from Josh would even be a consideration. 

McDermott, like a common fan, chose to once again single Allen out after the game.  I hate McDermott doing this as coach. First it does not nothing productive.  Secondly it reveals that once again, McDermott doesn't take any responsibility for losing what was a winnable game at the end.  

The Bills played 58.5 minutes of disappointing football Monday night.  Then they played 1.5 minutes of good football and were in a position to have a good chance to a better than 50/50 chance to win the game, after the coin toss.  Good coaches, good players put the first 60 minutes behind them, and proceed forward.  Monday night this team choked.   Sure, Superman Josh was not thier monday to single handedly win the game.  But the entire team had a hand in losing. 83 yard rushing plays are the expected point value of a bad turnover.. Decisions to not take penalties resulting in 3 points for the other team, is the expected point value of a turnover.  Punt team giving up a TD is worse than a turnover.   These mistakes don't negate otherwise good perfromances any more than turnovers negate Allen's otherwise good performance  They all sucked.  But McDermott highlighted only one player sucking.  At this point the combination of the two of them sucks.  

At this point Allen, continues to be the responsible adult acknowleding his faillures publically.  But that one way street is not likely sustainable. 





 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Chaos

[Radar]

13 minutes ago, Chaos said:

McDermott, like a common fan, chose to once again single Allen out after the game.  I hate McDermott doing this as coach. First it does not nothing productive.  Secondly it reveals that once again, McDermott doesn't take any responsibility for losing what was a winnable game at the end.  

The Bills played 58.5 minutes of disappointing football Monday night.  Then they played 1.5 minutes of good football and were in a position to have a good chance to a better than 50/50 chance to win the game, after the coin toss.  Good coaches, good players put the first 60 minutes behind them, and proceed forward.  Monday night this team choked.   Sure, Superman Josh was not thier monday to single handedly win the game.  But the entire team had a hand in losing. 83 yard rushing plays are the expected point value of a bad turnover.. Decisions to not take penalties resulting in 3 points for the other team, is the expected point value of a turnover.  Punt team giving up a TD is worse than a turnover.   These mistakes don't negate otherwise good perfromances any more than turnovers negate Allen's otherwise good performance  They all sucked.  But McDermott highlighted only one player sucking.  At this point the combination of the two of them sucks.  

At this point Allen, continues to be the responsible adult acknowleding his faillures publically.  But that one way street is not likely sustainable. 





 

Josh had four turnovers. Hard to win doing that for sure. My guess is with Rogers those turnovers would have put the game away yet we still got to overtime. Josh has taken personal responsibility for his play. I'm so so on McDermott and our coaching. I'm still bullish on Josh. 

[Chaos]

5 minutes ago, Radar said:

Josh had four turnovers. Hard to win doing that for sure. My guess is with Rogers those turnovers would have put the game away yet we still got to overtime. Josh has taken personal responsibility for his play. I'm so so on McDermott and our coaching. I'm still bullish on Josh. 

Again, once we got to overtime the four turnovers, the bad coaching decision on third down and the 83 yard run were in the past.  The only thing McDermott needed to say after the game was “we didn’t play our best for 58 minutes, but we we put ourselves in a position to win at the end, and we choked as a team”.  But instead McDermott ignored all of that in order to dwell on the first 58 minutes.  

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 9/12/2023 at 9:48 PM, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

If Josh Allen doesn’t go through one of the biggest transformations in NFL history from year 1 to year 3, there is no process…

 

Imo, it is highly unlikely Sean McDermott ever leads a team to a Super Bowl win, he is cut from the same cloth as a Marvin Lewis and Marty Schottenheimer (RIP).  He’s a good coach, a great leader of men, like Dan Campbell, but when it comes to the more cerebral aspects of coaching and in game management, McDermott gets lost in the shuffle.

 

Josh seems to have plateaued and lost that chip on his shoulder that drove him to make that leap from prospective bust to top 3 at the hardest position to play in pro sports...  He is far from stupid, one of the the highest wonderlic scores amongst active QBs, I just think off the field his head is everywhere except where it needs to be.

 

As for the man fueling said process, Beane’s inability to add offensive weapons to help Josh aside from Diggs is truly head scratching. There have been numerous opportunities to add another piece to get them over the top, but then they just keep signing players to the defensive side of the ball while trying to patch work the skill positions on offense.  
Hopefully Beane doesn’t stand pat and waste this year hoping Gabe Davis becomes a legit #2, and pulls the trigger on a trade for somebody like Hollywood Brown or another legit #2 (was hoping for Mike Evans) on a team looking to tank.

 

The process has taken us as far as it’s going to go, and as if they stand pat, they’ll be lucky to squeak into the wildcard.  
 

ADD Kirksey to the active roster 

ADD a legit #2 WR

Remove Ken Dorsey

Promote Joe Brady to OC

Hope the Josh pulls his head out of his arse, and the rest falls into place…

 

All of these things will happen, it’s just a matter of how long Beane is willing to let this dumpster fire burn?

Joe Brady is worse then Dorsey . Let Dorsey finish this season then the whole organization needs to be put under review. As far as moves I would make immediately is 

 

#1 - Bench Spencer Brown make Bates my new starting RT. 
 

#2- Put James Cook where he belongs as a bkup change of pace receiving back insert Harris as a workhorse bk getting the majority of Work or trade for a running bk like D’Onta Foreman from the Bears . 
 

#3 Dalton Kincaid needs to be elevated to #2 in targets on the team behind Diggs. Kincaid needs to be featured. 
 

I believe these moves can help us immensely. James Cook can’t break a tackle he needs to be used like his college team used him which was like a weapon to get the ball to in open space he can’t be featured he doesn’t have the play strength and will eventually wear down. Harris or another strong physical back would help wear down opponents and can give this offense a balance that it’s lacking u can’t have a back out there like Cook that’s no threat to the defense running between the tackles it makes the offense easier defend. 
 

Inserting Ryan Bates at RT would be a huge upgrade to Spencer Brown I realize he’s our swing lineman but we have good bkup guard in David Edwards and if Morse goes down to injury we can easily put Bates at center and return Brown to RT. Also I know David Edwards started his career at RT maybe he can take Browns job either way Brown needs to ride the bench. 
 

Featuring Kincaid would be a great move for this offense it’s obvious Gabe Davis or anyone else in the receiving game hasn’t earned that right over the years I realize Kincaid is a rookie but he’s an absolute mismatch for Lbers and corners and was open plenty last game vs the Jets according to the all 22 . Hopefully by making him #2 in the totem pole it can speed up the process for Him and Josh to get on the same page and by the playoffs this can be a devastating combo for teams to deal with. 
 

Hopefully the Bills realize these changes need to be made at least the Spencer Brown move everything else I get the feeling will sort itself out during the season. 

[Warriorspikes51]

I don't trust the coaching staff at the moment.

After the 1st int,  Sean and Ken should have both told Allen.....listen.  If we don't turn the ball over, we win.

It was that simple.  Take the easy completions. 

& if they did say something to that effect....

Allen apparently doesn't respect them enough.  Because he "acted out" on the field 

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

I've heard this term "process" for years now and I still don't know exactly what it means.

 

What exactly IS "The Process?"

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I don't trust the coaching staff at the moment.

After the 1st int,  Sean and Ken should have both told Allen.....listen.  If we don't turn the ball over, we win.

It was that simple.  Take the easy completions. 

& if they did say something to that effect....

Allen apparently doesn't respect them enough.  Because he "acted out" on the field 

 

I am all but certain they told him that. 

[teef]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am all but certain they told him that. 

didn't we see mcd and diggs both tell him that in one way or the other during the game?  to calm down and think?  

 

somehow that translates it into a respect issue.  

 

 

as i've said already, i have no problems with the criticism of coaching, but execution from the qb was the problem.  

[boyst]

come on in boys, the waters just fine.

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am all but certain they told him that. 

i'm sure they did but if a player of mvp talent doesn't respect his coaches and staff - then it's the wrong staff. he has sung many praises of dorsey but maybe dorsey's ceiling is a QB coach/passing coordinator type. he's young, he'll develop to more hopefully.

 

allen is a generational talent, hands down, no denying it.

 

get the coach that can coach him.

[HappyDays]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am all but certain they told him that. 

 

Gunner I don't disagree with anything you've said in this thread. The loss falls almost exclusively on Josh. But I sometimes get the sense that Dorsey is feeding into those bad habits. The 2nd INT is a good example. That was clearly a designed shot play. Sherfield was supposed to take Whitehead's attention to give Diggs a 1v1 downfield - I'm sure Whitehead got a kick out of that. He smartly ignored Sherfield and drifted backwards into the window of the obvious shot play.

 

So the first thing about this play is that Allen should not have thrown the ball, everyone agrees with that. It's on him to identify that Whitehead didn't bite on Sherfield and either throw the ball away or eat the sack. But we're in a close game against a backup QB where one more FG probably wins the game and Dorsey dials up a shot play for his hyped up arm arrogance QB. Don't you think that is a little bit of a poor coaching job there, while also acknowledging that it is still primarily Josh's fault?

[May Day 10]

The thing that gets to me, and is now old/alarming...

 

I don't understand how this team chronically loses these games where they are the better team, have assumed control, and need a comedy of errors to lose.  Not even one or 2 big plays.  You can point to 6 or 7 (often far-fetched) plays that all needed to happen in order for the Bills to lose these games.  You name it:  Houston playoff game, Vikings game, Jets game last year, Ill include the Miami sun-stroke game, this past Monday night game, 13 seconds, the Patriots wind game, the Jacksonville meltdown, Titans Monday night.  

There seems to be an inordinate number of close games they lose, often give the game away, as opposed to close games they gut out.  A seemingly detail-oriented coach like McDermott should have his team buttoned up in these situations. But instead, meltdowns happen, whether its dropping the ball in the end zone vs the vikings, not knocking a pass down in the same game, allowing a punt return in OT, the entire 13 seconds sequence, etc.

 

Why is this happening?  I feel like they have lost a huge opportunity for a few Super Bowl appearances at a minimum.

Edited September 14, 2023 by May Day 10

[uticaclub]

27 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

I've heard this term "process" for years now and I still don't know exactly what it means.

 

What exactly IS "The Process?"

The Process got us from 7-9 forever to contenders. The Process peaked, getting blown out in the AFCC, and we have regressed yearly. There was no contingency plan, and the team will continue to regress until we blow it up and start in a new direction.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, boyst said:

come on in boys, the waters just fine.

i'm sure they did but if a player of mvp talent doesn't respect his coaches and staff - then it's the wrong staff. he has sung many praises of dorsey but maybe dorsey's ceiling is a QB coach/passing coordinator type. he's young, he'll develop to more hopefully.

 

allen is a generational talent, hands down, no denying it.

 

get the coach that can coach him.

 

Then he has to play like it.