Jonathan Taylor... NOW!

[Thurman#1]

On 9/20/2023 at 5:57 AM, NastyNateSoldiers said:

How do u know he’ll average 5.3 yds per carry maybe he’ll average over 6yds.

 

Sure, maybe he would average over 6 yards. Or maybe he would average under 3 yards. "Maybe" anything can happen.

 

The best guess is to take his career average, 5.1, and then maybe be very positive and add on a couple of tenths just for the heck of it, hence 5.3. It's being kind. The Colts have a sensational OL in terms of run blocking. 

 

 

On 9/20/2023 at 5:57 AM, NastyNateSoldiers said:

There’s some TEs in this league that average more yds per catch then Travis Kelce does that mean there better ? Gabe Davis averages more yds per catch then nearly every Wr in the NFL does that make him better?

 

Yeah, um, the first sentence there is an excellent argument ... having nothing to do with anything that I said. I didn't say Taylor wasn't better. I didn't compare him to anyone.

 

The second sentence is a poor argument, and equally irrelevant as the first sentence.

 

On 9/20/2023 at 5:57 AM, NastyNateSoldiers said:

 

At the end of the day Who scares u ? That’s the question defensive coordinators are asking that’s what keeps defensive coordinators up all night and offensive cordinators as well when it comes to defensive players.  Stars make the world go round and it’s no different in sports . Obviously u have to have key role players to win in any game but the stars win the titles and celebrated for that. That’s why there’s a HoF in every sport. Having a RB that can break 3/4 tackles on his way to a 70yd TD keeps defensive coaches up all night .

 

I hope Cook proves me wrong but I don’t think DCs are doing much prep to stop him especially with his inability to threaten in between the tackles and punish a defense physically. Watching Cook run east and west in the snow last yr was all I needed to see to know he’s not the answer . If we want to win a Super Bowl at some point we’re gonna play in environments that dictate u need to run one ball especially playing in Buffalo. 

 

@Who scares you" you ask? And that question dictates who you need to get? Sorry, man, that's not an argument that a GM would make. That's one facet of the decision. There are many many more, which is the point. If you could just magically kidnap Taylor and put him on the team with no cap consequences, no acquisition cost, no destroying the value of the three productive, talented RBs already on the roster, then sure, go do it. But what you have there is a pipe dream.

 

That's a fan's question, not a GM's. In fantasy, yeah, sure, get Taylor. Beane doesn't deal in fantasy, nor should he. Getting him would be a misappropriation of resources. It would hurt the team in exchange for around a couple of hundred extra yards.

 

And in the end, the answer to your question about "Who scares you" is this ... Josh Allen scares people. Way way way more than Jonathan Taylor does. Which is why we're not going to spend far too many resources on Taylor when we don't run all that much anyway, nor should we.

 

And if you have already decided on Cook when you've only seen him as a rookie, that speaks a lot to your decision-making process. Knee-jerk decisions are more often wrong than right.

 

Also, I notice you haven't answered the question. For the obvious reason. But again, where is the last highly paid RB who won a Super Bowl?

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

14 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Every one of those players u mentioned we’re worth it to there teams until they weren’t just like any other positions. They helped there teams win a bunch of games, divisions & playoff games they made a ton of money for there organizations with merch and ticket sales. The guys u mentioned mostly didn’t play with a franchise QB so they lead the teams they were on . Not all there teams success was based on them either but they were a big part of there success none the less. 

 

 

Your tactic here is called "moving the goalposts." 

 

And moving the goalposts is a sign of desperation in a losing argument.

 

The question was about Super Bowl winning teams. Not teams that made money with merch sales or ticket sales or "won a bunch of games."

 

SUPER ... BOWL ... WINNING ... TEAMS.

 

Plenty of teams pay RBs big money. But how many of them win Super Bowls while they are doing it? It's been a while. A serious while.

 

Paying huge money to an RB is a misappropriation of money.

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

On 9/19/2023 at 8:40 PM, FrenchConnection said:

The last time the NFL rushing leader won the Superbowl was Terell Davis and the Broncos in 1998. The last time that the NFL's rushing leader even played in the SB was 2005 (Shawn Alexander). I am willing to admit that there is a change underway in the NFL. It seems to me that Shannhan and McDaniel have cracked the code on how to win without being QB-dependent and if the Dolphins and 49ers play in the SB this year you may see a lot of teams try to load up on speed at the skill positions instead of chasing that elite quarterback. But to claim that the key to winning is a big power back getting the lion's share of touches? I would have to see that to believe that we are going back to the 80's

Do history repeat itself? I don't think anyone is saying to give a power back the lion share of touches. Having one that can impact a game or make a defense aware that he is on the field helps. Making a LB or a safety hesitate for a second because of the threat at the RB position can only help a QB like Josh, who has a bazooka on his right arm, open up those "tight window" throws. 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

Paying huge money to an RB is a misappropriation of money.

Do we really want to talk about misappropriating money? Remember the $ Beane gave to his defensive line the past couple of years. If I have to pay a young, known talent like JT28 to give me a better chance to win a SB then so be it. Anyone see how Bijan Robinson is making his offensive line look so much better only because of his talent? Taylor is that kind of RB that has that same type of vision and contact balance

[Einstein's Dog]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

If Dalton Kincaid pans out, you don’t need a big upgrade at wide receiver two

Dalton replaces Beasley.  We could still use a WR2 that replaces the J Brown/E Sanders of years past.  The promotion of Gabe did not work out (IMO).  

 

I think the FO had considered around a $10M investment with OBJ and DHop.  When that didn't work they decided to try to see if Gabe could fill the gap again.  It's not working.  That $10M and the 3rd rounder (for Edmunds) should be able to get us a nice WR for 2/3's of this season (and hopefully with a contract that goes through another 2 more seasons as Diggs insurance).  My dream scenario is work it out w M Evans.

 

 

45 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Do we really want to talk about misappropriating money? Remember the $ Beane gave to his defensive line the past couple of years. If I have to pay a young, known talent like JT28 to give me a better chance to win a SB then so be it. Anyone see how Bijan Robinson is making his offensive line look so much better only because of his talent? Taylor is that kind of RB that has that same type of vision and contact balance

But we have some pretty decent RBs.  We don't have a good WR2.  Do you really think JT would help this team more than M Evans?

[SoTier]

On 9/18/2023 at 5:23 PM, hondo in seattle said:

 

But I get what you're saying about OLs.  If you have a good OL, you'll not only get yards on the ground even with an average back, but you'll also keep your QB upright and healthy.  

 

I'm reasonably happy with our backfield - I think they'll provide a lot of bang for the buck.  I just wish we had a better OL.  

 

On 9/19/2023 at 2:32 AM, AuntieEm said:

 

Then you keep improving your oline until it opens holes that any player can run through without difficulty.  You get the oline beefed up you don't even need top of the line weapons though doesn't hurt to have those as well. 

 

On 9/19/2023 at 1:22 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 

If we were going to bring in a really good player by trading away major draft resources and spending salary cap money we can't afford and stay in good cap shape ... for God's sake, make it an RT. Or another excellent young pass rusher.

 

 

These three posts are dead on.  The  best investment for winning a Super Bowl is in the lines, and especially when a team has a great QB, in the offensive line.  Every QB needs protection and targets.  Without those two elements, even the greatest QBs fail.  A great QB with protection and good receivers puts up the points to win games, and with some good defensive play and luck, maybe even a Super Bowl.  A good/great RB is a luxury for a team with a great QB because running the ball isn't central to their success in the 2020s like it was in the 1980s or 1990s primarily because of rules changes.   A Super Bowl contending team needs a solid running game for protecting leads late in games and for playing in bad weather.  

 

On 9/19/2023 at 8:27 PM, Solomon Grundy said:

The same reason John Elway didn't win one until he got a RB. The same reason the Dolphins tried to get Marino one. Shanahan paid a King's ransom for CMC. He's considered the greatest offensive mind in football today. Think he knows the impact of having a great RB? 

 

You do realize that John Elway retired after the 1998 season which was a quarter of a century ago, right?    That was then, this is now.

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by SoTier

[benderbender]

8 minutes ago, SoTier said:

You do realize that John Elway retired after the 1998 season which was a quarter of a century ago, right?    That was then, this is now.

[warrior9]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:31 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

hottest take of the day!!

 

yikes.

I'm sure you thought Dalvin Cook was elite too. (90% of sports pundits said he was a top 5 RB in the league while he was an FA looking for a new home)

 

Goes to a team with no offensive line.. and *gasp* guess what?! He is below average and is averaging 2.5 yards a carry. 

What's the excuse here? No QB? No Offensive line? obviously.. because these things MAKE an RB, not the other way around.. 

 

How many examples need to be shared and proven for people to understand this?

[AuntieEm]

40 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

 

 

These three posts are dead on.  The  best investment for winning a Super Bowl is in the lines, and especially when a team has a great QB, in the offensive line.  Every QB needs protection and targets.  Without those two elements, even the greatest QBs fail.  A great QB with protection and good receivers puts up the points to win games, and with some good defensive play and luck, maybe even a Super Bowl.  A good/great RB is a luxury for a team with a great QB because running the ball isn't central to their success in the 2020s like it was in the 1980s or 1990s primarily because of rules changes.   A Super Bowl contending team needs a solid running game for protecting leads late in games and for playing in bad weather.  

 

 

You do realize that John Elway retired after the 1998 season which was a quarter of a century ago, right?    That was then, this is now.

 

 

You can have the greatest rb in league history and none of them will get much with bad oline play.  You get good oline play and even barely competent rbs can get 1st downs over 3 downs when oline can keep dlinemen occupied long enough foe 3.5 yds a pop which isn't gonna get you any wow plays  but will move chains and kill game clock.

 

Theoretically if one team has an oline that is unbeatable then they could hold the ball for almost the entire game save the time the other team gets the kickoff to start a half.  But once they score or have to punt  the dominant team could lock down the ball to never give it back. They could basically score just enough points needed based on how well their defense plays.  Qb protection on that line would make any qb look at least competent.  That qb would never need to risk any pass that wasn't a absolute gimme to a wide open receiver, and if the oline is that dominant then any competent wrs are gonna spring open at some point for a never harried qb that is never stressed about getting hit behind that line. So even if your star qb is out sick with the flu your backup is not gonna lose the game with great protection.

 

 

[warrior9]

2 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Do we really want to talk about misappropriating money? Remember the $ Beane gave to his defensive line the past couple of years. If I have to pay a young, known talent like JT28 to give me a better chance to win a SB then so be it. Anyone see how Bijan Robinson is making his offensive line look so much better only because of his talent? Taylor is that kind of RB that has that same type of vision and contact balance

Dude, it doesn't give you a better chance of winning the SB... HISTORY AND STATISTICS SHOW it gives you a SIGNIFICANTLY worse chance... ATL has a good offensive line.... They also run the ball 30x a game and he has Allgeier to spell him.. You people and your big names are crazy..

 

Jame Cook averages more YPC than JT as well. 

 

Please show me ONE INSTANCE where an RB put a team over the top to win a SB... just one. You're arguing in circles but haven't proved a single point / shown how RBs value is minimal. There are 100's of examples to prove their lack of value.

 

Raheem Mostert is 31 on his 7th team and just had a 100 yard game.

Zack Moss just had a 100 yard game and a few TDs

Kyren Williams is 5th and just won the job from a 2nd or 3rd round pick  

Pacheco won the job over a 1st round pick 

Chubb leaves, Ford does better

Derek Henry was the best RB in the league for 3 years, won nothing

Josh Jacobs was rushing title last year, no playoffs.... do we continue or are you going to still pound the table for someone because he has a big name and you think that wins football games? 

Edited September 21, 2023 by warrior9