Where is the data to suggest that things will change?

[Nextmanup]

27 minutes ago, Success said:

" Great, elite QB's, don't do what Josh did tonight"

 

I mean, I just started a thread earlier about Peyton Manning throwing 6 picks in a primetime game.  And they all have had games like that.

 

As to the main question of the OP: I was pretty encouraged by literally every other facet of the game for the Bills. I thought the pass rush was way better, the O-line was good, Bernard held up well, Kincaid looked like the guy we hoped he would be, Groot has taken a next step, et al.  

 

This is a better team than last year.  Josh just has to be better than he was last night.

 

This is possibly the most Kool-Aid drinking comment I've ever seen here.

 

I'm guessing nothing about this team--ever--upsets you.

 

 

[appoo]

https://twitter.com/ajaycybulski/status/1701410543079244116?s=46&t=b_6DEUCIOVykcHVZYqq8jg
 

That’s how Josh started the game. I don’t know why he decided he was done taking the short stuff, maybe he just got bored grinding down the field.  But if he stuck with it the Bills win by multiple scores.

 

Abother data point; 26%.

 

The amount of drop backs Allen was pressured on. That means 3 out of every 4 drop backs he had a clean pocket against the best front in football 

 

5 sacks. At least 4 of those sacks Josh played himself into pressure 

 

0 - the number of drops by WRs

 

So those are 4 off the top of my head. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by appoo

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Equating it to the Bills, I think the Giants are in their 2018 season. Last season they overachieved (like the 2017 Bills), this year they regress, and next year they go for a deep playoff run.

 

 

 

It's hard for me to equate these Giants to the 2018 Bills because Allen was a rookie and we cleaned the roster out....we had something like $50 million in dead cap space.  We went on a spending spree the next year in 2019 once we alleviated that dead cap. 

 

The Giants have signed their veteran franchise QB and this is his 5th season.  The Giants have a much better roster than our 2018 Bills....much better.

 

I don't see Daniel Jones taking the Giants to a deep playoff run.  You're a "It's all about the QB" and you think he's that QB?

 

 

 

[Nephilim17]

Reasonable logical conclusions need to be drawn on a dataset that has a large enough sample size. 

Josh has the most turnovers (and overall touchdowns) in the last five years or so, I heard in a video today.

 

And Beast's thread on his TD/INT ratio since last year's KC game is a large sample of very recent evidence that Josh has been a turnover machine for a long stretch now.

 

He played poorly against Miami and Cincy in the playoffs.

 

And then, after all the talk and off-season resetting and "focus," he played a horrible game last night. The sample size is large and it absolutely recent.

 

Is his elbow to blame? His O-line? His coaching? His head-space?

I don't know. And I hope I'm wrong but until Josh starts to play at an elite level for a good stretch and including against elite teams, I think at the moment he is no longer an elite QB. An elite athlete, yes, but he has not shown elite game processing for a long time time.

I hope I'm wrong and/or it turns around. I'm not super confident. 😕

 

 

[dgrochester55]

I was really down after the game but am trying to be more positive today.    Buffalo actually looked good in the first half.      The running game was better when they had the chance to play, Harty and Kincaid showed flashes and the defense was much improved from late last year.

 

The problem is that Allen had his worst game ever and fell apart in the second half.    What happens is contingent on whether Allen has one game like this or ten.    I want to be optimistic and point out that Favre, Kelly, Manning and Brady have had some clunkers in their career, but Allen seems to not have his head in the game recently. 

 

It is one game.  There are concerns, but we not alone.    KC and Cincinnati are also 0-1.   Jets are 1-0 but face the prospect  of rolling out Zach Wilson or a journeyman practice squad/free agent backup for the rest of the season.    In my opinion, the odds of Allen turning it around and going back into 2021 form are much higher than Zach Wilson suddenly becoming a playoff caliber QB.    I am not ignoring the concerns but stating that the season isn't over yet.

 

Hopefully Buffalo can do what they need to against the Raiders and Commanders over the next two weeks and help Allen get out of his own head.  

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

This is possibly the most Kool-Aid drinking comment I've ever seen here.

 

I'm guessing nothing about this team--ever--upsets you.

 

 

 

LOL

 

Just because people don't come on this message board and whine and B word relentlessly doesn't mean this team doesn't upset them.

 

I am very upset about last night but you can still keep composure.  

[Success]

5 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

This is possibly the most Kool-Aid drinking comment I've ever seen here.

 

I'm guessing nothing about this team--ever--upsets you.

 

 

 

I was upset yesterday.  I just don't go into hot-take overdrive, and I remember what life was like before Allen.

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

10 minutes ago, Process said:

43% is probably counting plays where Allen bailed on a clean pocket and ran straight into a d lineman

Hmmm, I doubt it. The QB is either pressured or he’s not. Taking off doesn’t mean he’s pressured, so I doubt it’s counted if the QB just decides to run. That could be coverage etc , not pressure. 

[Nextmanup]

A number of folks have made comments, similar to one upthread in this thread, talking about a lack of a disciplinary voice within the Bills coaching staff for Josh.

Someone to keep him sharp.  Someone here last night said his problem is he views Dorsey as a peer and not a boss type figure.

 

I think there is really something to this; a change needs to be made.  This is 100% on McDermott to make it happen, and fast.

 

Will he?  I don't think he is smart enough to be that insightful, assess the problem, and find a good fix for it.

 

Expect more of the same inconsistent play from Josh, and plenty of wild-eyed hero ball.

 

It won't be every game!  It will come and go.

 

 

 

 

[appoo]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Josh was something like 18/22 with an average of 4.8 YPT… let’s not act like the short passing game was going great… it was going exactly as the Jets planned… that type of production just encourages mistakes which is what the the Jets got.

Bills had 13 points in the first half, on their way to 24+ which is fantastic against a defense this good 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Josh was something like 18/22 with an average of 4.8 YPT… let’s not act like the short passing game was going great… it was going exactly as the Jets planned… that type of production just encourages mistakes which is what the the Jets got.

 

When you're up by 10 and facing a back up QB, you don't need to be great.  We could have continued this style and would have won comfortably.

Allen needs to have better situational awareness.  

[stinky finger]

25 minutes ago, Virgil said:

 

The difference is, those games with Peyton and others were flukes and one off games.  My point is that this isn't a fluke for Josh anymore.  He's had the most interceptions total over the past 5 years and continues to perform like this against teams who drop 7 in coverage.  Burrow had a terrible week one, but that's not a typical performance for him.  Josh will do this again against the Jets, or any team where he feels like he has to press

Yep

 

said to my brother this morning, I fear we’ve seen the best of JA. This isn’t new. He’ll bully the weaker teams and, well……crap his pants in crunch time time against better competition. 
 

I gotta believe there’s a multitude of reasons why. I’m not confident he’s capable of playing with the big boys. 

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Josh was something like 18/22 with an average of 4.8 YPT… let’s not act like the short passing game was going great… it was going exactly as the Jets planned… that type of production just encourages mistakes which is what the the Jets got.

 

What's wrong with that, though? So the offense takes time to get down the field, that's fine. At least 4.8 YPT progresses the football and retains possession. And, with Rodgers down, the Jets would have started to worry had the Bills dink and dunked on them.

[Nextmanup]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

LOL

 

Just because people don't come on this message board and whine and B word relentlessly doesn't mean this team doesn't upset them.

 

I am very upset about last night but you can still keep composure.  

"keep composure" ??? What does that mean?

 

People writing insightful posts pointing out flaws with our team's construct are not "losing composure" and even if they were, who the hell cares? This is a message board for Christ's sake, filled mostly with  low IQ posters.

 

If you can't B word and be stupid here, where can you!?

 

😂

[Success]

13 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

Spot on accurate here.  These types of games would be aberrations for any other elite QB.  JA does this MULTIPLE times every year.  This is who JA is.  A gunslinging turnover machine.  JA's aberrations are zero turnover games and 300+ yards.  He's never gonna be Mahomes.....not even close.  Have to accept who he is and embrace it.  If the stars align and the Bills get some lucky bounces, they may win a SB with him...but I don't see it happening for another 3-4 years and that's if he's even still healthy enough to do it.  McD won't be here when it happens and neither will Dorsey.

 

Manning wouldn't just have 1 bad game a year.  And he was pretty abysmal in the playoffs on a regular basis for many years.

 

We tend to mythologize the greats - but they weren't models of consistency for the most part.  Most seem to think last night was the worst game we've ever seen from Allen.

 

[UKBillFan]

Just now, stinky finger said:

Yep

 

said to my brother this morning, I fear we’ve seen the best of JA. This isn’t new. He’ll bully the weaker teams and, well……crap his pants in crunch time time against better competition. 
 

I gotta believe there’s a multitude of reasons why. I’m not confident he’s capable of playing with the big boys. 

 

He's CAPABLE of playing with the big boys; his performances against the Chiefs prove that. And he has potential to get back into post season 2021/start of 2022 mode. He just needs to reset and that is the question - is his mind in the right place, and does he have the correct support at OP to do so.

[Cray51]

I remember when Brady threw 5 picks against us... that's a QB losing a game for a team.  Allen lost the game for the Bills last night as well, but he has also won the Bills plenty of games in his career.  The moment we start expecting him to be perfect is the moment we will be disappointed. 

 

Chiefs lost - and looked very average

Bengals lost - and looked abysmal

Bills lost - and shot themselves in the foot

 

Week 1 of the NFL is a crazy week for a reason.  We played a top 5 defence and made mistakes.  We wont play a defense like that again... until we face them at home.

 

The moment Allen does this against the Raiders in week 2.... then I'll be nervous.  For now, this week was simply missed opportunity.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

Seasons done. time to find a new regime from top to bottom. maybe terry sells the team and the new ownership rights the ship? wonder what they could get for a JA trade? he obviously isn't the answer at QB. every phase of the game needs to be stripped and reset. special teams sucks, defense couldn't stop a nose bleed and the offense as a whole is a disaster. then you take coaching. get rid of the whole staff.

 

this team will be lucky to win 6/7 games and will be no fun to watch, like last night was no fun to watch. I'm sure I can find better things to do with my Sunday, like fishing.

 

team/organization has been snake bit. it started back when they went to 4 straight super bowls and lost every one, four straight. then this group, gets close but always manages to ***** it up. as a fan, one can really take only so much. I have a thick skin, not much bothers me but there is no sense in going through another game let alone season when the outcome is pretty evident with this losing bunch. JA should be embarrassed from his performance last night. but when a team is snake bit, those kind of nights will continue to happen. throwing 3 picks to same player, 3. that just doesn't happen unless the team is the buffalo bills. a team that has brought more pain to its fans then any other nfl fan base out there.

 

sure, it was one game and some will write it off as that but the reality is that game was a clear picture of what is to come.

 

bamboo pole, some shade, good music and catch a few fish on Sunday afternoon. nice relaxing days ahead and more entertaining than watching this team meltdown like it did last night.

 

GO *cough cough BILLS...👎

 

 

[Drew21PA]

I get it’s Tuesday after a loss but some of these knee jerk reactions?

 

look had Josh not thrown just one pick - or lost that last fumble - we would be absolutely speaking a different tune on how we beat an elite defense in their house and wouldn’t be talking about …. OC Dorsey

 

the guy and McDermott called good games

 

not excellent but good.

 

offense was moving the ball

 

only head scratcher was the 2nd and 15 draw play but even so cook makes one move its 3rd and 7 and manageable potentially

 

im really not at a loss - team was ready Josh just really was really really bad 

 

 

[Einstein]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It's hard for me to equate these Giants to the 2018 Bills because Allen was a rookie and we cleaned the roster out....we had something like $50 million in dead cap space.  We went on a spending spree the next year in 2019 once we alleviated that dead cap. 

 

The Giants have signed their veteran franchise QB and this is his 5th season.  The Giants have a much better roster than our 2018 Bills....much better.

 

I don't see Daniel Jones taking the Giants to a deep playoff run.  You're a "It's all about the QB" and you think he's that QB?

 

 

 

 

I agree with you that signing Daniel Jones to that large contract was a very poor idea and may end up being what dooms Brian Daboll’s tenure in New York (eventually).

 

But back to Daboll as an offensive coordinator, he excelled at finding a way to scheme wide receivers open. He gave Allen easy decisions. Dorsey seems to struggle with this. 

 

Think back to our time with Daboll. Do you recall the amount of times that Josh had an easy read, with an open receiver? It was quite often. We rarely ever see this now Instead, we see Alan having to fit balls into extremely tight windows far more often than was done under Daboll.