New-found Respect for Stef

[pocoboy]

3 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

I honestly think this is a problem with the offense at the moment; the three key men in Josh, Diggs and Dorsey are generally emotion first, calm logic second. It can make for a hotbed of over-reaction and spiralling, which results in outcomes like yesterday. Saying that, it was good to see Diggs trying to gee Josh up before one of the final drives (in my tired state can't remember if it was before the last 4Q or OT drive), even if it perhaps came a touch too late.

 

Perhaps. I think the big miss right now is Daboll's perspective as a guy who was a defender in college. I suspect that he had a way to boiling down concepts for Allen that Dorsey may not do as well. Allen had a few head-scratcher moments under Daboll, but the percentage of plays where he executed most aspects of the QB position at a high level was much greater at that point.

 

[DasNootz]

9 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

And overly emotional.

 

I honestly think this is a problem with the offense at the moment; the three key men in Josh, Diggs and Dorsey are generally emotion first, calm logic second. It can make for a hotbed of over-reaction and spiralling, which results in outcomes like yesterday. Saying that, it was good to see Diggs trying to gee Josh up before one of the final drives (in my tired state can't remember if it was before the last 4Q or OT drive), even if it perhaps came a touch too late.

Honestly - when has he ever been "overly emotional" since he's been on this roster?  Was it when the QB didn't mentally show up for a home playoff game? - seems like the correct reaction to me.

[UKBillFan]

Just now, DasNootz said:

Honestly - when has he ever been "overly emotional" since he's been on this roster?  Was it when the QB didn't mentally show up for a home playoff game? - seems like the correct reaction to me.

 

And the subsequent summer of playing games off the back of it.

[Radar]

Diggs is a great receiver and an intense personality and that can be ,as most things, a positive or a negative depending on the situation or the personality you're dealing with. Now the speculation about Allen's not focused or working at his game is just that speculation and I hope that's not a problem. Nevertheless Josh seems tight and forcing things. If that's self induced or from outside who knows but he definitely appears uncomfortable and his natural talents are being hindered. A sport psychiatrist may be in order here something is amiss here and has been for sometime now.

[DasNootz]

9 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

And the subsequent summer of playing games off the back of it.

He came to work Day 1, voiced his complaints/position to the coach, took 1 day off, showed up the next day and worked his tail off.  Everything else is media or fan speculation.  It just feels like people want to pigeon hole him as a diva.  There's a difference between "me first" and "I want to win".

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by DasNootz

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Diggs is a Leader. He has earned that C. 

I mentioned an incident in the game here last night, with mixed comments.

 

Someone mentioned that Diggs and Josh had a coming together on the sideline prior to OT.

 

I went back and watched the TV broadcast again and I saw what that guy was referring to.

 

Diggs was very clearly "instructing" Josh to stay calm, and be smart.  He literally pointed to his head (Diggs) and you could read his lips: "BE SMART." 

 

He knows Josh's weakness better than anyone on this team apparently, and he was doing his best to keep Josh under control at the most critical moment of the game, heading into OT.  

 

That should NOT be Diggs' job; as it is, I think he HAS to do it.

 

This aspect of the team is a bit of a tire fire; it's totally on McDermott to sort this out and at least be aware of this situation.

 

Perhaps McDermott is too afraid to confront Josh directly and function as his boss.

McClappy did not have any problem whatsoever throwing Josh under the bus last night in his post-game PC, when he very passive aggressively pointed straight to the 4 turnovers as why it was "tough to win in this league"....did it 3 times.

 

I don't like that guy...

 

😂

 

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 hour ago, pocoboy said:

Diggs got so much heat for those points in 2022 where he wore his emotions on his sleeve. He knows as much as anyone about what's contributing to this slump that Allen is in. Whether it's Allen letting his hubris take over instead of coaching points, or being distracted by the stardom, or simply not doing the work preparing for the game, I surely think Diggs was (and is) onto something.

 

I think we all wanted to give Josh the benefit of the doubt - Dorsey, elbow, OL struggles - but I don't think Diggs reacts that way if it's truly any of that.

It’s fair to wonder where Josh would be without Stef.  How many in-game pep talks does Josh need from Stef, before he rises to the occasion on his own?  Is Stef essentially the Dwayne Wade to a young LeBron that wasn’t ready to step up on his own yet?

[warrior9]

1 hour ago, pocoboy said:

Diggs got so much heat for those points in 2022 where he wore his emotions on his sleeve. He knows as much as anyone about what's contributing to this slump that Allen is in. Whether it's Allen letting his hubris take over instead of coaching points, or being distracted by the stardom, or simply not doing the work preparing for the game, I surely think Diggs was (and is) onto something.

 

I think we all wanted to give Josh the benefit of the doubt - Dorsey, elbow, OL struggles - but I don't think Diggs reacts that way if it's truly any of that.

I don't think he got heat from people who aren't on ESPN or Bills fans that need something irrational to complain about / create a story that doesnt exist

 

Stef has never been a problem and never will be. He wants to win and that's it. 

[UKBillFan]

3 minutes ago, DasNootz said:

He came to work Day 1, voiced his complaints/position to the coach, took 1 day off, showed up the next day and worked his tail off.  Everything else is media or fan speculation.  It just feels like people want to pigeon hole him as a diva.  There's a difference between "me first" and "I want to win".

 

 

But my argument would be how "I want to win" comes about. Split Dorsey, Josh and Diggs in individual components and there's absolutely nothing wrong with their approach. You have people who react passionately, based on emotion, first (whether that results in outbursts or self flagellating) and others who are calmer and logical.

 

IMO the issue the Bills have with offense is the three vocal leaders all react emotionally. They either lack someone with cool, calm logic in the locker room, or they're too quiet to impose themselves on three, in their own way, big characters - and who is going to try and impose themselves on the OC, QB and WR1?

 

Looking at the Chiefs and Reid, Mahomes and Kelce all seem pretty cool and logical. Purdy seems pretty calm in San Francisco. Belichick can be emotional but Brady was relatively calm and Gronk seemed coolness personified when the heat is on. Hurts doesn't seem to get overly flustered. Does this mean things always go right for these teams? Of course not. But the disasters occur less regularly.

4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I mentioned an incident in the game here last night, with mixed comments.

 

Someone mentioned that Diggs and Josh had a coming together on the sideline prior to OT.

 

I went back and watched the TV broadcast again and I saw what that guy was referring to.

 

Diggs was very clearly "instructing" Josh to stay calm, and be smart.  He literally pointed to his head (Diggs) and you could read his lips: "BE SMART." 

 

He knows Josh's weakness better than anyone on this team apparently, and he was doing his best to keep Josh under control at the most critical moment of the game, heading into OT.  

 

That should NOT be Diggs' job; as it is, I think he HAS to do it.

 

This aspect of the team is a bit of a tire fire; it's totally on McDermott to sort this out and at least be aware of this situation.

 

Perhaps McDermott is too afraid to confront Josh directly and function as his boss.

McClappy did not have any problem whatsoever throwing Josh under the bus last night in his post-game PC, when he very passive aggressively pointed straight to the 4 turnovers as why it was "tough to win in this league"....did it 3 times.

 

I don't like that guy...

 

😂

 

 

Whilst Josh had issues in the first half, I think his spiral started after the hurdle in the second quarter and McDermott seemingly laid into him via the headset. I said it elsewhere when someone commented on Josh needing to be told 'No' - I agree, but it's also the manner of telling someone that. It has to be done correctly or it causes more problems, and I don't think McDermott can adequately communicate with Josh. Add on the loss of Dorsey on the touchline, where he was whilst Daboll was OC, and it almost creates a perfect storm. Brady seems incapable of taking on that role, and Diggs then has to step in, even though it isn't really his role to.

[MAJBobby]

42 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

And overly emotional.

 

I honestly think this is a problem with the offense at the moment; the three key men in Josh, Diggs and Dorsey are generally emotion first, calm logic second. It can make for a hotbed of over-reaction and spiralling, which results in outcomes like yesterday. Saying that, it was good to see Diggs trying to gee Josh up before one of the final drives (in my tired state can't remember if it was before the last 4Q or OT drive), even if it perhaps came a touch too late.

Emotional???

 

Fine Give me Emotional ALL Day from Diggs.  I will take 10 for 102 and a TD against one of the top end CBS in the league all day and every day.

 

What I wont take is 29 of 41 for 236 and 1 TD, 4 TOs and 3 sacks directly on him.  

32 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

And the subsequent summer of playing games off the back of it.

And when it mattered (summer doesnt). 10 catches on 12 TGTs for 102 and a TD

 

18 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I mentioned an incident in the game here last night, with mixed comments.

 

Someone mentioned that Diggs and Josh had a coming together on the sideline prior to OT.

 

I went back and watched the TV broadcast again and I saw what that guy was referring to.

 

Diggs was very clearly "instructing" Josh to stay calm, and be smart.  He literally pointed to his head (Diggs) and you could read his lips: "BE SMART." 

 

He knows Josh's weakness better than anyone on this team apparently, and he was doing his best to keep Josh under control at the most critical moment of the game, heading into OT.  

 

That should NOT be Diggs' job; as it is, I think he HAS to do it.

 

This aspect of the team is a bit of a tire fire; it's totally on McDermott to sort this out and at least be aware of this situation.

 

Perhaps McDermott is too afraid to confront Josh directly and function as his boss.

McClappy did not have any problem whatsoever throwing Josh under the bus last night in his post-game PC, when he very passive aggressively pointed straight to the 4 turnovers as why it was "tough to win in this league"....did it 3 times.

 

I don't like that guy...

 

😂

 

I always have and always will hate his Hands Off approach on Offense.  Specially when your OCs are in the Box.  

 

It is going to be worse this year because he is calling the Defense

[UKBillFan]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

Emotional???

 

Fine Give me Emotional ALL Day from Diggs.  I will take 10 for 102 and a TD against one of the top end CBS in the league all day and every day.

 

What I wont take is 29 of 41 for 236 and 1 TD, 4 TOs and 3 sacks directly on him.  

 

Diggs being emotional is ok but the balance is off between the 'big three'. The Bills need a calm, logical voice within the offense for when mistakes occur and things threaten to snowball. I think Daboll was it and he has not been effectively replaced.

 

This may get a few down votes but I actually prefer Dorsey's playcalling to Daboll's, and what he's trying to do with the offense. But it's not going to work if the quarterback is sprialling and seemingly no one can pull him out of it.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, UKBillFan said:

 

Diggs being emotional is ok but the balance is off between the 'big three'. The Bills need a calm, logical voice within the offense for when mistakes occur and things threaten to snowball. I think Daboll was it and he has not been effectively replaced.

 

This may get a few down votes but I actually prefer Dorsey's playcalling to Daboll's, and what he's trying to do with the offense. But it's not going to work if the quarterback is sprialling and seemingly no one can pull him out of it.

How about that be your FACE OF THE FRANCHISE.

 

The 1/4B dollar MAN better learn to ***** lead then.  If he isnt that guy STRIP the C.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

Diggs is a beast. He expects that level of focus and effort out of everyone and he's not getting it. If he's frustrated then that is totally understandable. He's putting everything he has into this and I don't think anyone else on this team can say the same thing. Definitely not the guy who is the "face" of the franchise, that's for sure. I wish we had 22 Diggs' on the field last night

Diggs balled out yesterday. He's the only legit proven weapon the Bills have on offense. All he wants to do is win. 

 

He can see his QB is struggling and losing confidence. Yesterday he tried to pick him up. Yet, Diggs gets blame here. That's crazy. 

 

Side note is Diggs will create problems if the Bills continue to lose. He won't sit silent accepting loses. He will absolutely be vocal to a point where he's a distraction. That's who Diggs is and that's not going to change. 

 

I keep coming back to the Diggs McD confrontation on the sidelines. Diggs relented to coach McD. A free pass sort of speak. I think that was coach McD getting the benefit of the doubt. Next time I think Diggs won't be so passive. This is something to keep an eye on 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, pocoboy said:

Diggs got so much heat for those points in 2022 where he wore his emotions on his sleeve. He knows as much as anyone about what's contributing to this slump that Allen is in. Whether it's Allen letting his hubris take over instead of coaching points, or being distracted by the stardom, or simply not doing the work preparing for the game, I surely think Diggs was (and is) onto something.

 

I think we all wanted to give Josh the benefit of the doubt - Dorsey, elbow, OL struggles - but I don't think Diggs reacts that way if it's truly any of that.

 

 

You're kidding yourself about what Diggs thinks.

 

And if your respect for him is new-found, it's come around way too late.

[DrDawkinstein]

If we had 11 Diggses on Offense we'd likely be undefeated. He aint the problem. Never was.

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

How about that be your FACE OF THE FRANCHISE.

 

The 1/4B dollar MAN better learn to ***** lead then.  If he isnt that guy STRIP the C.

 

Josh has to sort himself out first before being able to lead others. I think hesaid once that he doesn't feel like shouting at other players when he makes mistakes himself. He doesn't react to setbacks with calm, cool logic and he isn't one to rail at others. That's his base character and it's not going to change. To do so would be like the two of us suddenly deciding to ditch supporting Bills and cheering for the Phins instead. Who he is is in his blood.

[cale]

But you know, McD appreciates Diggs' "communication." He likes it when they have "good" communication. He mentioned something about communication in the 13 seconds fiasco. Well, someone needs to communicate to McD that he's about to lose this team.

[Freddie's Dead]

Diggs was the only person on O that showed up yesterday.