Why Dorsey is not the answer

[Dan in Owego]

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

You think McD "is the guy?"  Curious to get your take. 

I am starting to wonder this myself

[PayDaBill$]

I’m scratching my head.  How do you pickup right where you left off last season?  We didn’t miss a beat.  Did we not learn or try and correct anything?

[JohnNord]

11 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

Yes thought about it. 
 

dorsey had a heck of a game plan for that defense. All Josh needed to do was take the open player. He didn’t. 
 

that is an often thing with him and will get put in the OC. 
 

just like it did with Daboll and now it is with Dorsey. I think people need to start putting a lot of the blame on the shoulders of 17 where it belongs 

I think Dorsey should get some blame but the bigger problem last night was Josh.  Dorsey gave him answers and he didn’t talk them

[Coach Tuesday]

If they miss the playoffs I fire McD and Dorsey and hire Ben Johnson and join the modern era of football.  But I probably won’t be owning the team any time soon.

[newcam2012]

Just now, Dan in Owego said:

I am starting to wonder this myself

There's little doubts in my mind. Look at the history of McD playoff history. 4- 5 record and numerous gaffs! Out coached by a country mile. No need to elaborate because we all know what we saw. 

 

Not sure what else you have to see to make a determination he's not the guy. 

 

 

30 minutes ago, balln said:

Justin Shorter ! To the rescue ! 
 

how about shakir ! I totally forgot that he’s on the team!

Shorter another Beane wasted draft pick? 

[NewEra]

43 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Hackett is better

Lol. 🤷🏻‍♂️ about that but maybe

[HappyDays]

26 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I do like Kincaid but I was also dubious they’d get him the ball.

 

I hope after watching the tape from last night, Allen and Dorsey make it a point to feature Kincaid in the offense.

 

This should be the target share:

 

Diggs ~30%

Kincaid ~15%

 

And then everyone else can split the rest, I don't care how.

 

Last night Kincaid had an equal target share to each of Davis, Knox, and Harty. That's unacceptable IMO.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

I mean he took an inept franchise for close to two decades and turned it around... He's clearly not incompetent

 

But I'd like to see more growth ... You can do plenty worse than him around the league

 

But he better get his ass in gear because the seat is getting warm

Personally, I think this is the wrong mindset and attitude to have. Just my opinion. Not attacking you or anyone else. Why do I say this? 

 

Bills fans including myself were used to years of disappointment and medicity or worse. This leads to accepting any kind of moderate success. The playoffs was the goal. Is that still the goal?

 

As a result, McD success is heralded as almost god like. He gets free passes and the benefit of the doubt. He's not held accountable for anything. Not even 13 seconds. The media never asks him difficult questions. McD can get away with anything. He can really do no wrong. I swear Bills fans have seen him walk on water 

 

The fan mindset is you can do worse. He's pretty good. He turned around the franchise. He's competent. I'm grateful for what he's done. Better than the past? All true but it's the wrong mindset now. Now it's about a killer mindset, closing the deal, having a swagger and arrogance, being a badass, believing you are going to win, and hosting the Lombardi. IMHO , right or wrong McD treats football as a game. He prioritizes family, God, and being a solid citizen more than football. Not saying he's wrong but that mindset doesn't lead to nasty on the field. It doesn't prioritize football as number one. Football is a job in your life. 

 

That mindset inhibits change when change is needed. Accepting repeated failures without seeing improvement leads to more failures. Making excuses for failures enhances future failures. 

 

Instead, we fans should be asking is McD capable of leading this team to the SB? What changes has he made to correct his past weaknesses? How does he game plan in the big games? How does he coach in the playoffs. In game adjustments? Clutch time does he execute and lead his team to victory? Look at the his six years of playoff history with the Bills. Seriously address those questions. 

 

Lastly, I ask everyone what do you see in McD that makes you think he can lead this team to a SB? Is it his great coaching? His motivation factor? His ability to lead men on the football field. The clapping and optimistic words? His culture building? His Christianity ? His coaching experience? The Andy Reid analogy just doesn't cut it.

 

Please state your case for McD. I'm all ears. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by newcam2012

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Personally, I think this is the wrong mindset and attitude to have. Just my opinion. Not attacking you or anyone else. Why do I say this? 

 

Bills fans including myself were used to years of disappointment and medicity or worse. This leads to accepting any kind of moderate success. The playoffs was the goal. Is that still the goal?

 

As a result, McD success is heralded as almost god like. He gets free passes and the benefit of the doubt. He's not held accountable for anything. Not even 13 seconds. The media never asks him difficult questions. McD can get away with anything. He can really do no wrong. 

 

The fan mindset is you can do worse. He's pretty good. He turned around the franchise. He's competent. I'm grateful for what he's done. Better than the past? Etc...

 

That mindset inhibits change when change is needed. Accepting repeated failures without seeing improvement leads to more failures. Making excuses for failures enhances future failures. 

 

Instead, we fans should be asking is McD capable of leading this team to the SB? What changes has he made to correct his past weaknesses? How does he game plan in the big games? How does he coach in the playoffs. In game adjustments? Clutch time does he execute and lead his team to victory? Look at the his six years of playoff history with the Bills. Seriously address those questions. 

 

Lastly, I ask everyone what do you see in McD that makes you think he can lead this team to a SB? Is it his great coaching? His motivation factor? His ability to lead men on the football field. The clapping and optimistic words? His culture building? His Christianity ? His coaching experience? The Andy Reid analogy just doesn't cut it.

 

Please state your case for McD. I'm all ears. 

It took Andy Reid 20+ years to win a super bowl

 

And he had stacked teams and pro bowl quarterbacks... He was always thought of the guy that couldn't get it done

 

Now he's on God status 

 

McDermott is not close to Marvin Lewis level yet who had one playoff win in a decade 

 

If he goes one and done in the playoffs it's a different story

Edited September 13, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Buffalo716]

37 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Lol. 🤷🏻‍♂️ about that but maybe

Hackett was the dual offensive coordinator and quarterback coach for Blake bortles

 

When Blake threw for over 4,000 yards and 35 touchdowns... Both would have been Bill's records pre Josh Allen

 

He also took the ghost of Kyle Orton and had him average 250 yards per game... And Sammy Watkins had the best year of his career playing for him... He didn't do anything wrong in Green Bay to mess up his resume

 

Despite what happened in Denver... Which Russell Wilson literally apologized for not going about it right... aka didn't try...

 

Hackett has had success at multiple stops... He helped Blake bortles throw for 35 touchdowns... That's scheming

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Buffalo716

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Hackett was the dual offensive coordinator and quarterback coach for Blake bortles

 

When Blake threw for over 4,000 yards and 35 touchdowns... Both would have been Bill's records pre Josh Allen

 

He also took the ghost of Kyle Orton and had him average 250 yards per game... And Sammy Watkins had the best year of his career playing for him

 

Despite what happened in Denver... Which Russell Wilson literally apologized for not going about it right... aka didn't try...

 

Hackett has had success at multiple stops... He helped Blake bortles throw for 35 touchdowns... That's scheming

 

 

Great points.  Dorsey has had 1 season so there obviously isn’t much ammunition.  In his only season as OC he was third in scoring and his offense averaged more yard per game than the genius Brian Daboll.   
 

Blake Bortles breaking bills passing records isn’t very impressive to me considering how the game has changed since the records were set.

 

that said….Hackett might be better, but I’d rather roll the dice with the guy that might be on the upswing rather than the guy that I believe will never be a champion

[AKC]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Welcome back, AKC! D-line equity FTW! 😀

I don't even have to create the graph on the rising spend on interior DLine, front offices in the league have done my job for me 😉

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Great points.  Dorsey has had 1 season so there obviously isn’t much ammunition.  In his only season as OC he was third in scoring and his offense averaged more yard per game than the genius Brian Daboll.   
 

Blake Bortles breaking bills passing records isn’t very impressive to me considering how the game has changed since the records were set.

 

that said….Hackett might be better, but I’d rather roll the dice with the guy that might be on the upswing rather than the guy that I believe will never be a champion

 

Dorsey , had an unknown upside as a young coordinator with nothing on tape... And he was handed a top five scoring offense

 

So now it's on him to keep the reigns going and adjust

 

4,000 yards and 35 passing touchdowns is still a hell of a season even in 2023... Only three quarterbacks in the entire League last year would have qualified with both those statistics

 

So he did a tremendous job with that jags offense and bortles... Certainly the best part of his resume

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Dorsey , had an unknown upside as a young coordinator with nothing on tape... And he was handed a top five scoring offense

 

So now it's on him to keep the reigns going and adjust

 

4,000 yards and 35 passing touchdowns is still a hell of a season even in 2023... Only three quarterbacks in the entire League last year would have qualified with both those statistics

 

So he did a tremendous job with that jags offense and bortles... Certainly the best part of his resume

Sure, that’s the best part of his resume.  
 

When you’re comparing 2 Ocs and 1 of them has only one season under his belt (hunch happened to be too 3 offense),  I don’t see how anyone could answer which OC is better.  At least let this season play out.  From my experience in life, most professionals improve at their job in year 2 and forward

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Sure, that’s the best part of his resume.  
 

When you’re comparing 2 Ocs and 1 of them has only one season under his belt (hunch happened to be too 3 offense),  I don’t see how anyone could answer which OC is better.  At least let this season play out.  From my experience in life, most professionals improve at their job in year 2 and forward

That's why I am willing to see how the offense morphs over the season 

[mannc]

On 9/12/2023 at 11:42 AM, HappyDays said:

Everybody is correct that Allen is much more to blame than Dorsey for last night's performance.

 

But, for argument's sake let's say we see more abysmal performances like last night. We simply can't move on from Josh Allen. So the only alternative is move on from Dorsey and bring on a hard a** OC that can hopefully scream some sense into Allen. Dorsey isn't some offensive savant. If he can't get through to Allen we shouldn't lose any sleep if we have to move on from him.

 

This is more a conversation for the end of the year, but if things continue heading in a poor direction then I agree Dorsey will have to be the sacrificial lamb.

If Josh has a lot more games like Monday, Dorsey will not be the only sacrificial lamb.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 9/12/2023 at 9:30 AM, dave mcbride said:

Some eye-opening numbers from last night:

 

The Bills held the lead for 37 minutes and 18 seconds of regulation.

 

The Jets held the lead for 1 minute and 46 seconds of regulation.

 

The score was tied for 20 minutes and 56 seconds of regulation.

 

Josh Allen dropped back 46 times (41 attempts; 5 sacks) and ran it another six times (half of which were scrambles if I recall correctly). The Bills' running backs ran it 16 times. 

 

Think about that.

 

 

I am critical of what Dorsey did on Monday.  

 

I had an All-22 aspect of the entire game from my upper end zone seat and I saw a different game than you, apparently.

 

IMO Dorsey's biggest problem is that he doesn't take the aspects out of the offense that encourage poor performance.

 

Like calling inside runs that require a high level of execution.........against a great defensive front.........on opening night in a raucous stadium when the starting offense has hardly played together.

 

Color me stunned that those blocks just weren't getting fully executed. 

 

Those were utterly wasted downs and thankfully there WEREN'T more of them.   Wanting more of those makes no sense.

 

The game plan had flaws like that,  but it's true that it was good enough to win..........Allen just didn't take the open man in the quick game.

 

Maybe Dorsey isn't right for him because he is just drawing up game plans that *should* work if Allen plays intelligent football when he should instead gameplan around his relative lack of in-play intelligence/poise.

 

If Dorsey wants to take the next step he needs to do a better job of taking more of the bad options out of the offense.    

 

[dave mcbride]

44 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I am critical of what Dorsey did on Monday.  

 

I had an All-22 aspect of the entire game from my upper end zone seat and I saw a different game than you, apparently.

 

IMO Dorsey's biggest problem is that he doesn't take the aspects out of the offense that encourage poor performance.

 

Like calling inside runs that require a high level of execution.........against a great defensive front.........on opening night in a raucous stadium when the starting offense has hardly played together.

 

Color me stunned that those blocks just weren't getting fully executed. 

 

Those were utterly wasted downs and thankfully there WEREN'T more of them.   Wanting more of those makes no sense.

 

The game plan had flaws like that,  but it's true that it was good enough to win..........Allen just didn't take the open man in the quick game.

 

Maybe Dorsey isn't right for him because he is just drawing up game plans that *should* work if Allen plays intelligent football when he should instead gameplan around his relative lack of in-play intelligence/poise.

 

If Dorsey wants to take the next step he needs to do a better job of taking more of the bad options out of the offense.    

 

It's more about situational football -- having a lead against a team with a very bad QB and sticking with a pass-heavy attack when you could play smash-mouth with a non-fumbling tackle breaker (Murray) with some play-action mixed in and then cruise to victory. Dorsey stuck with his initial gameplan despite the circumstances drastically changing (i.e., Rogers going down at the very beginning of the game). When the facts on the ground change and the situation calls for something else that might not be as flashy but which will more likely lead to a victory, you adjust. He didn't.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

It's more about situational football -- having a lead against a team with a very bad QB and sticking with a pass-heavy attack when you could play smash-mouth with a non-fumbling tackle breaker (Murray) with some play-action mixed in and then cruise to victory. Dorsey stuck with his initial gameplan despite the circumstances drastically changing (i.e., Rogers going down at the very beginning of the game). When the facts on the ground change and the situation calls for something else that might not be as flashy but which will more likely lead to a victory, you adjust. He didn't.

 

 

They weren't going to smash-mouth the Jets, dave.

 

Not sure what game you watched.   Wasn't going to happen at the level of execution they are at as an offensive line at this point.   Break out those inside gap runs versus the Raiders at home........not in the Jets game.    They needed to keep the chains moving and the options were there to do it all game.   3 runs and a punt *might* have gotten the job done but it leaves you vulnerable to one mistake on defense.  If Benford doesn't make that great hustle play the Jets would have had the lead a lot longer.   

[Warriorspikes51]

Put Dorsey on the sideline