Why Dorsey is not the answer

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Not just a run. A draw.

 

And not just any draw. A shotgun draw.

 

A run that starts 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage, and has the QB turn and hand the ball to a RB who is STANDING STILL.

 

 

That’s called fooling the opponent!  Disguise!  Do the one thing that you shouldn’t do and you’ll catch the opponent off balance!  😉 

[Dr. Who]

I still hope it works out, but nothing yesterday confirmed a team that had pondered the failures of the previous years and become quietly serious assassins. How much more excitement would there be for this team if Ben Johnson were the head coach right now? 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think Diggs and Allen need 20 targets a game. 

 

Honestly, because the rest of the Bills pass catchers are absolute garbage. 

Maybe 30 targets. 

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, AKC said:

Dorsey has a responsibility to convince his QB to believe in the gameplan. Seems he rarely gets a buy in from Josh. My reaction watching the game was “why isn’t Dorsey getting Josh under center where he won’t freelance as much” but that would mean your practices leading into the game included a decent number of plays under center. The reality is surely that during practice the past week Dorsey had Josh in shotgun for most or all of the Jets plan. And that’s for sure on Dorsey- you need to harness in the QB you get him up to the LOS. 

so i don't love the shotgun heavy approach either but what else can you do when pass pro is spotty at best

 

this offense used to win consistently in play action but if theyre not comfortable having qbs back to defense the rpo from shotgun is kind of your only play at that point

 

these are just guesses mind you

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Josh had the same issues with Daboll that he has with Dorsey. Too many of you think we could just change the coordinator and everything would be different. It comes down to Allen protecting the football more than anything - not the men standing on the sidelines or calling plays from the booth. They can give him direction, he has to take it. They can preach about the same issues until they’re blue in the face, he has to implement them. Seriously and I don’t mean this as a jab to you, but what offensive coach is coming in here and changing the unit/scheme/culture AND reducing Allen’s penchant for turnovers? Name this magical person. 

Ben Johnson!

 

He's turned Geoff into a nice QB. Geoff hasn't thrown an INT in over 340 passes. I think this is an NFL record. He was turnover friendly with the Rams.

 

The guy will properly utilize the running game and RBs too. 

 

I'd take him over McD all day everyday. He's the exact type of offensive guy the Bills needed. 

7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I still hope it works out, but nothing yesterday confirmed a team that had pondered the failures of the previous years and become quietly serious assassins. How much more excitement would there be for this team if Ben Johnson were the head coach right now? 

I think I would have to check my pants. 

[GoBills808]

and tbh i still think until Kincaid is up to speed (he may already be but working him in slower, who knows) we are still pretty limited by personnel on offense

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

Yeah, but it isn't just his brain that fails him on the short passes. 

 

Josh's touch on short passes has always been, well... basically non existent. Even if we could block for a screen pass worth a game, Josh routinely fails to place the ball in an easy way for the catcher to grab and run. It's a real problem, for an elite defense like the Jets that can take away the long game and apply great pressure there's almost no answer for it. 

 

 

tell us what his short pass stats are

[Breakout Squad]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

And then calls a run on 2nd and 15 in OT.

 

Think about that!

Dumbest play call in that spot. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

56 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Ben Johnson!

 

He's turned Geoff into a nice QB. Geoff hasn't thrown an INT in over 340 passes. I think this is an NFL record. He was turnover friendly with the Rams.

 

The guy will properly utilize the running game and RBs too. 

 

I'd take him over McD all day everyday. He's the exact type of offensive guy the Bills needed. 

I think I would have to check my pants. 

Yeah, I'm there as well. 

 

If we have these same problems all season questioning the play calling, the mid-season swoon, the poor offensive design, Diggs' lid about to pop off, he would be innovative mind and he is great at the mic. 

[AKC]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

so i don't love the shotgun heavy approach either but what else can you do when pass pro is spotty at best

 

this offense used to win consistently in play action but if theyre not comfortable having qbs back to defense the rpo from shotgun is kind of your only play at that point

 

these are just guesses mind you

If you look at the disadvantages of shotgun, it helps the D identify pass protections and in the run game the RB and Oline lose the element of surprise in attacking the LOS. Also the QB can’t hide the ball. Under center there are more things the O can do and the D has to remain aware of a larger playbook, which is diminished out of the gun. If your QB is great at reading the initial movements of the D there is an advantage in shotgun that may be exploited, but that advantage is regularly diminished if the QB isn’t making an immediate decision and throwing the ball. In our situation having the QB with the tendency to not just favor the pass but extending plays to throw long you can at least put him in the more natural position to run the ball by forcing him to line up under center some of the time. It’s becoming a discipline issue for us. If you leave Josh in the gun he is going to err towards using his arm. If you start him on the LOS it should be easier for him to accept and execute a called running play.

[SoCal Deek]

It’s as if everyone suddenly forgot all the months of discussions during the offseason. We ALL knew this team is Josh Allen and a bunch of other dudes. So when Allen plays like total crap, it’s going to be ugly. Period! 

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I'm willing to give everybody on the bills more time

 

I've always been a coach's guy... Being a former player and Coach I know how important a good coach is

 

But I have been adamant here that I don't know if Dorsey is the guy.. and I've been ridiculed

 

But Josh Allen and the bills could do a lot better

 

I literally wanted to punch a hole in my wall on that second and 15 draw

From my memory, I’d say that a higher percentage of the board preferred to replace Dorsey after last year.  I certainly did 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

and tbh i still think until Kincaid is up to speed (he may already be but working him in slower, who knows) we are still pretty limited by personnel on offense

 

We are. Davis was awful yesterday. A complete afterthought and at least partially responsible for the 3rd interception. Cook and Harty go down on first contact and neither of them have the initial burst/acceleration I expected based on their reputations. Knox is what he is.

 

Personally I think Kincaid should be the featured #2 pass catcher immediately. He looks ready to take on that kind of volume now. He should have had at least 7 catches yesterday.

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

From my memory, I’d say that a higher percentage of the board preferred to replace Dorsey after last year.  I certainly did 

Hackett is better

[balln]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yep…so frustrating the duds they bring in to the WR room opposite Diggs offseason after offseason. No idea why they skimp at the position and/or have such issues evaluating it.

Justin Shorter ! To the rescue ! 
 

how about shakir ! I totally forgot that he’s on the team!

[dave mcbride]

17 minutes ago, AKC said:

If you look at the disadvantages of shotgun, it helps the D identify pass protections and in the run game the RB and Oline lose the element of surprise in attacking the LOS. Also the QB can’t hide the ball. Under center there are more things the O can do and the D has to remain aware of a larger playbook, which is diminished out of the gun. If your QB is great at reading the initial movements of the D there is an advantage in shotgun that may be exploited, but that advantage is regularly diminished if the QB isn’t making an immediate decision and throwing the ball. In our situation having the QB with the tendency to not just favor the pass but extending plays to throw long you can at least put him in the more natural position to run the ball by forcing him to line up under center some of the time. It’s becoming a discipline issue for us. If you leave Josh in the gun he is going to err towards using his arm. If you start him on the LOS it should be easier for him to accept and execute a called running play.

Welcome back, AKC! D-line equity FTW! 😀

[Straight Hucklebuck]

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yep…so frustrating the duds they bring in to the WR room opposite Diggs offseason after offseason. No idea why they skimp at the position and/or have such issues evaluating it.

This is LeBron in Cleveland all over again the first time around, and really, most of the second time around. 

 

They got him Diggs and the rest of the offense are rusted Camaro's and junkyard cars parked on the front lawn. 

 

Harty is 5'6" without the Tyreek Hill speed. UNDRAFTED. 

 

Shakir is a borderline healthy scratch every week. 5th Rounder.

 

Gabe Davis is a black hole. He's awful. In 2023 its about small margins of efficiency and he is a complete sink hole of player. Not enough speed, no route running, no bend. He gives you a 0 over 50% of his games. 4th Rounder. 

 

Sherfield's best trait is blocking. Undrafted.

 

Knox and Kincaid, I said it before the season and got snapped at, but do you trust this OC to get them the ball consistently? We saw this with Hines, they don't know what to do. And you didn't see any speed from Kincaid, he's a 4.70 athlete. 

 

It's just not a good group of players. 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I'm willing to give everybody on the bills more time

 

I've always been a coach's guy... Being a former player and Coach I know how important a good coach is

 

But I have been adamant here that I don't know if Dorsey is the guy.. and I've been ridiculed

 

But Josh Allen and the bills could do a lot better

 

I literally wanted to punch a hole in my wall on that second and 15 draw

You think McD "is the guy?"  Curious to get your take. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

You think McD "is the guy?"  Curious to get your take. 

I mean he took an inept franchise for close to two decades and turned it around... He's clearly not incompetent

 

But I'd like to see more growth ... You can do plenty worse than him around the league

 

But he better get his ass in gear because the seat is getting warm

[newcam2012]

13 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

This is LeBron in Cleveland all over again the first time around, and really, most of the second time around. 

 

They got him Diggs and the rest of the offense are rusted Camaro's and junkyard cars parked on the front lawn. 

 

Harty is 5'6" without the Tyreek Hill speed. UNDRAFTED. 

 

Shakir is a borderline healthy scratch every week. 5th Rounder.

 

Gabe Davis is a black hole. He's awful. In 2023 its about small margins of efficiency and he is a complete sink hole of player. Not enough speed, no route running, no bend. He gives you a 0 over 50% of his games. 4th Rounder. 

 

Sherfield's best trait is blocking. Undrafted.

 

Knox and Kincaid, I said it before the season and got snapped at, but do you trust this OC to get them the ball consistently? We saw this with Hines, they don't know what to do. And you didn't see any speed from Kincaid, he's a 4.70 athlete. 

 

It's just not a good group of players. 

 

 

Bingo!