Why Dorsey is not the answer

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Drew21PA said:

Weird - because I saw theee times where we were moving the ball consistently and then - boom josh Allen gave it back to the jets?

 

Yeah, sorry, again, I probably should have specified, I meant moving the ball in our direction, not the Jets' direction.  

 

Other than the aforementioned FG drive, we had four drives totaling 70 yards, an average of 17 yards/drive with a long drive of 34.

 

In the first half we had two scoring drives of 75 and 60.  

 

Hence the comparison and contrast.   

 

 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Well, I certainly don't disagree with this. But if you're an OC and see this happening -- and you have the lead against a team led by Zach Freaking Wilson -- you adjust your plan. I didn't see that last night.

 

I get that but unless your plan is never throw..... I mean Allen was an INT waiting to happen on almost every drop back. 

 

Maybe they should have just gone, run, run, run, punt the entire 2nd half. And you might be right that might have been enough. But man oh man the QB was terrible. He single handed lost us that game.

17 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

How is this Dorsey’s fault?
 

watch the underneath about the first down line. 

he has guys open. And just finest throw to them. He gets impatient and I think teams know that now. 
 

https://x.com/complexsports/status/1701604430909768105?s=46&t=aPpesQ9OFgU8cA3wnTdNeA

 

It isn't.

 

Kincaid in the flat - 1st down.

Diggs on the crosser - 1st down. 

 

Tries to fit one in to Davis in double coverage. And again we can talk if we like about the way Davis ran that route... but that get us away from why we lost. We lost because the QB made the wrong decisions. Time after time after time. It was EJ at Wembley level of terrible.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I don’t like the playcalling or the overall game plan on most weeks but this is who we have. Anyone that wants a change, it’s not happening week 2. The only shot is if the wheels come off completely on the season and none of us want that. So we are stuck with this guy. McD might have to come in and start drawing red Xs through some pages. We better get back to what got us here or it’s going to get ugly.

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I get that but unless your plan is never throw..... I mean Allen was an INT waiting to happen on almost every drop back. 

 

Maybe they should have just gone, run, run, run, punt the entire 2nd half. And you might be right that might have been enough. But man oh man the QB was terrible. He single handed lost us that game.

I'm not saying never throw, of course, but I do think that you shift to ball control mode with a big back who almost never fumbles (Murray, who has one fumble in his last 722 carries and two in has last 938) with the occasional safe play action play. Maybe you get another field goal or two, and then put the pressure on Zack Wilson to make a play. Outside of the two early runs by Hall, the Jets did nothing on offense. Hall had 8 carries for 18 yards the rest of the way.

 

Anyway, I'm asking for situational awareness from the OC. I didn't see it last night.

Edited September 12, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Thurman#1]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

?? -- The Bills had nine negative plays on dropbacks: 4 turnovers (one of which was a fumble out of the shotgun) and five sacks. They had 217 net passing yards on 47 dropbacks (including the fumble play) which is 4.6 yards per passing play. That's horrible. 

 

 

Yeah, yeah. 

 

Still doesn't make your point, though. You can not - you simply can not - play as if your quarterback is going to throw balls as horrible as those throws. You can't. Especially if your quarterback is Josh Allen.

 

The blame for the awful plays today goes to the guy receiving the ball from the center. 

 

And yet still our big plays came from passes, our first downs came from passes, nearly all successful plays came from passes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, yeah. 

 

Still doesn't make your point, though. You can not - you simply can not - play as if your quarterback is going to throw balls as horrible as those throws. You can't. Especially if your quarterback is Josh Allen.

 

The blame for the awful plays today goes to the guy receiving the ball from the center. 

 

And yet still our big plays came from passes, our first downs came from passes, nearly all successful plays came from passes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See my point above about situational awareness - both of the score and the quality of the opposing offense. And they literally signed a big back who almost never fumbles.  

[Low Positive]

41 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Three interceptions
 

You can’t put that on the offensive coordinator

And a fumble that cost the Bills the game. 

[4th&long]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Ok so we lost it at the end and HOW is this all on DORSEY?

This is what I was thinking. I thought we were going to get some facts on Dorsey and what he is doing wrong. 
 

i am not defending Dorsey tho, it seems like the further we get away from dabol the worse Josh gets.

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Tell that to the 49ers and the Eagles. Run pass balance is used to HELP the passing game because it slows down a pass rush. The Jets were defaulting to pass rushing all night because the Bills were dropping back at such a heavy rate.

OK as Josh Said "Same ***** different year"  And this is context with the fanbase immediately blaming the OC.

 

Fact is the 250M man laid a HUGE ***** EGG.  No one else to blame.

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

He's not listening to coaching,  on the run where he turned back inside,  he should have run out of bounds.  McD goes over to him points the finger to his head and says be smart,  then Josh tries to hurdle 7 defenders and is still 8 yards short...

 

The OC will take a fall here, but Josh shoulders a lot of the blame.  Curious to see what the all 22 shows and if Josh is not taking the underneath stuff again...

Yes it will.  Both those forced deep picks there was wide open shorter options.  One was Kincaid with 10 yards of space 

1 hour ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Heck of a game plan with zero creativity for Kincaid, still some plays with zero short options and not a strong enough personality to control Josh’s stupidity.

Yep Heck of a game plan.  I suggest watching the All-22 and take the 17 glasses off.

[Carmel Corn]

Why?  Because he has no experience as an NFL OC.  Buffalo can do better than an unproven OC who is trying to learn on the job.

[Thurman#1]

23 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I'm not saying never throw, of course, but I do think that you shift to ball control mode with a big back who almost never fumbles (Murray, who has one fumble in his last 722 carries and two in has last 938) with the occasional safe play action play. Maybe you get another field goal or two, and then put the pressure on Zack Wilson to make a play. Outside of the two early runs by Hall, the Jets did nothing on offense. Hall had 8 carries for 18 yards the rest of the way.

 

Anyway, I'm asking for situational awareness from the OC. I didn't see it last night.

 

 

Maybe you get another field goal or two.

 

Maybe you get one or two fewer.

 

The fact that you like the guess where we get more doesn't mean that's what would have happened.

 

And situational awareness is good, but part of the situation was that the Jets DL was beating us in the run game.

 

Wouldn't have minded seeing a few more runs myself, but my guess is they would have averaged less than four YPC as the ones they ran did. Five plays of five yards or more

 

Oh, and yes there were a lot of passes, but 10 of them came on our final drive of the game that started with 1:48 left in the 4th and down by three.

[Thurman#1]

12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

See my point above about situational awareness - both of the score and the quality of the opposing offense. And they literally signed a big back who almost never fumbles.  

 

 

I did see it.

 

And it doesn't do anything for your argument.

 

The fact that a guy on the internet doesn't think they called them with situational awareness isn't a strong argument. 

 

And see my point that situational awareness includes the awareness to see that the defense is beating you up in the run game and that you're not running well.

 

The problem was Allen playing much much much worse than he usually played. I wouldn't have minded a few more runs myself. But you yourself said you have to pass some with Josh Allen. Yeah. And if he throws that badly, you still get INTs and turnovers. It's still a better bet, almost always, though today he played so badly it was not.

 

And my other point that if you don't turn the ball over but you also don't convert first downs successfully (and our run game was not successful) you're not going to have things turn out well. Maybe the Jets get an extra drive or three with us having a bunch of three-and-outs on runs. You're pretending this wouldn't happen, but it easily could have. No way to know either way.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I did see it.

 

And it doesn't do anything for your argument.

 

The fact that a guy on the internet doesn't think they called them with situational awareness isn't a strong argument. 

 

And see my point that situational awareness includes the awareness to see that the defense is beating you up in the run game and that you're not running well.

 

The problem was Allen playing much much much worse than he usually played. I wouldn't have minded a few more runs myself. But you yourself said you have to pass some with Josh Allen. Yeah. And if he throws that badly, you still get INTs and turnovers. It's still a better bet, almost always, though today he played so badly it was not.

 

And my other point that if you don't turn the ball over but you also don't convert first downs successfully (and our run game was not successful) you're not going to have things turn out well. Maybe the Jets get an extra drive or three with us having a bunch of three-and-outs on runs. You're pretending this wouldn't happen, but it easily could have. No way to know either way.

We can agree to disagree. I don't buy what you're selling and you don't buy what I'm selling. Fair enough. For the record, though, I thought that Allen was godawful last night and cost them the game. I mean, that's freaking obvious. But more than one thing can be wrong on a team. 

[MAJBobby]

18 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Why?  Because he has no experience as an NFL OC.  Buffalo can do better than an unproven OC who is trying to learn on the job.

He had guys open all game. 

 

Maybe the QB needs to grow up a bit

[CircleTheWagons99]

They REALLY need to practice the screen game for a week straight. Nothing else. 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Ok so we lost it at the end and HOW is this all on DORSEY?

 

Because all we needed was 17 points in regulation, and instead had stalled drive after stalled drive after stalled drive.

 

The 2nd INT should never had happened because no such play should have been called. We were slowly pounding and dinking the ball down the field. Keep at that. Grind it out.

 

But Josh/Dorsey just cant help themselves but to take those bad deep shots.

 

ONE field goal in the 3rd quarter and we win the game.

[frostbitmic]

2 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Ok so we lost it at the end and HOW is this all on DORSEY?

Dorsey throws too many INT's to be the OC.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

What I have wanted from day 1 with Allen is the 15 Cam Newton panthers offense. The sickening part is we have that OC on our coaching staff….can we make Mike Shula the OC? 

[Reed83HOF]

39 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yes it will.  Both those forced deep picks there was wide open shorter options.  One was Kincaid with 10 yards of space.

I know it will, how often is what I'm curious about and it will be the same site, they are there and he doesn't take them.

 

Not turning this into an anti McDermott comment, but this is what happens when you have a defensive-minded HC vs an offensive-minded one, the offensive guy find success and leaves as an HC. I bring this up not as an argument to fire Sean and to keep Dabs, but it did appear Josh listened to Daboll. I also know our offense had funks with Daboll as well, but this is just feels a lot different.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

I know it will, how often is what I'm curious about and it will be the same site, they are there and he doesn't take them.

 

Not turning this into an anti McDermott comment, but this is what happens when you have a defensive-minded HC vs an offensive-minded one, the offensive guy find success and leaves as an HC. I bring this up not as an argument to fire Sean and to keep Dabs, but it did appear Josh listened to Daboll. I also know our offense had funks with Daboll as well, but this is just feels a lot different.

I have my issues with McD.  I think that is probably pretty well known.

 

But I also will not give Josh the Pass HE WANTED Dorsey to replace Daboll.  My issue with McD will grow more as the year goes on I know it will specially with him calling the Defense he will be completely removed from "Being a HC" when the defense is on the field.  I really wonder how much time he actually spends with the offense during the week even.