Why Dorsey is not the answer

[Meatloaf63]

38 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yes thought about it. 
 

dorsey had a heck of a game plan for that defense. All Josh needed to do was take the open player. He didn’t. 
 

that is an often thing with him and will get put in the OC. 
 

just like it did with Daboll and now it is with Dorsey. I think people need to start putting a lot of the blame on the shoulders of 17 where it belongs 

Heck of a game plan with zero creativity for Kincaid, still some plays with zero short options and not a strong enough personality to control Josh’s stupidity.

[Livinginthepast]

Dorsey has been way to conservative in his game plans. He doesn't mix things up or think out of the box. It is literally like a high school coach working with a young QB and team (he makes things too simple and takes no risks). Ironically this approach does 2 things to Josh's game. First it puts him into a situation that he unlikely to succeed and misses his strengths. Secondly it makes Josh frustrated and he tries to force things (2 INTS against double coverage). 

 

The 2nd major problem with Dorsey is the lack of in game adjustments. The playoff game vs the Bengals was a perfect example. He keeps trying the same plays even when they are ineffective or when the opposing D has adjusted and neutralized them. Football is a chess game of strategy and not adjusting throughout is insane.

 

I think the jury was out on Dorsey last season until the playoff games when he was poor. The offseason was supposed to see a major jump in quality in the offensive game planning but last night looked exactly the same as the worst elements last year. Unfortunately, Josh has bailed out Dorsey a number of times last year but last night Josh was horrible and made Dorsey's poor play calling even worse.  I

 

I think the heat really has to be on Dorsey now to figure this out. If he cannot work with Allen then he needs to go. 

[dave mcbride]

8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

This isn’t the 1970s. The short passes (runs) were called. Josh ignored them 

Tell that to the 49ers and the Eagles. Run pass balance is used to HELP the passing game because it slows down a pass rush. The Jets were defaulting to pass rushing all night because the Bills were dropping back at such a heavy rate.

[Thurman#1]

36 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Some eye-opening numbers from last night:

 

The Bills held the lead for 37 minutes and 18 seconds of regulation.

 

The Jets held the lead for 1 minute and 46 seconds of regulation.

 

The score was tied for 20 minutes and 56 seconds of regulation.

 

Josh Allen dropped back 46 times (41 attempts; 5 sacks) and ran it another six times (half of which were scrambles if I recall correctly). The Bills' running backs ran it 16 times. 

 

Think about that.

 

 

Those don't prove what you're trying to prove. When your OL isn't doing a good job of running, it's not necessarily a bad idea not to run it much.

 

Generally, this offense is better at passing than running. Generally it's a great idea to put the ball in Allen's hands more. Not yesterday, though.

 

Sixteen non-Allen runs and 61 yards resulting. We weren't doing it well.

 

If Allen had simply made better choices on the plays when he made awful choices, we would have scored at least six more points and won.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Those don't prove what you're trying to prove. When your OL isn't doing a good job of running, it's not necessarily a bad idea not to run it much.

 

Generally, this offense is better at passing than running. Generally it's a great idea to put the ball in Allen's hands more. Not yesterday, though.

 

Sixteen non-Allen runs and 61 yards resulting. We weren't doing it well.

 

If Allen had simply made better choices on the plays when he made awful choices, we would have scored at least six more points and won.

 

 

I don't know how many times I need to say this, but the Bills had the lead for most of the game and running plays are generally safe plays. Why not play ball control against a team with a terrible QB? They also slow down pass rushes because d-lines have to play differently. The Jets have a good run defense, but their pass defense is even better. 

 

Again, I thought Allen was terrible last night. Not trying to deflect blame, but more than one thing can be wrong. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Thurman#1]

 

 

10 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Purely my opinion but I think if Dorsey calls too many runing plays by RBs, Allen will simply change the play at the line of scrimmage. He just cannot help running it himself or looking for deep shots. If they aren't there, dont take it! At this point, I am convinced his stubbornness and boneheaded decision making in the moment is holding this team back. 

 

This is also something we all forget. And shouldn't. Just because we run a play does not mean it's the one Dorsey called.

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

48 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Yes thought about it. 
 

dorsey had a heck of a game plan for that defense. All Josh needed to do was take the open player. He didn’t. 
 

that is an often thing with him and will get put in the OC. 
 

just like it did with Daboll and now it is with Dorsey. I think people need to start putting a lot of the blame on the shoulders of 17 where it belongs 

He's not listening to coaching,  on the run where he turned back inside,  he should have run out of bounds.  McD goes over to him points the finger to his head and says be smart,  then Josh tries to hurdle 7 defenders and is still 8 yards short...

 

The OC will take a fall here, but Josh shoulders a lot of the blame.  Curious to see what the all 22 shows and if Josh is not taking the underneath stuff again...

[eball]

48 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Game plan seemed too conservative.(shocker) they played scared of the Jets defense for most of the game…. And Josh was a ***** show.

 

That conservative game plan was FINE until Josh took two stupid deep shots into double coverage, and then ignored a wide open Kincaid to force a throw to Davis.

 

It's not about how many times you hand off.  The short passing game was our running game and it was working.  Josh just lost his shite for some unknown reason.

 

[Thurman#1]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

I don't know how many times I need to say this, but the Bills had the lead for most of the game and running plays are generally safe plays. Why not play ball control against a team with a terrible QB? They also slow down pass rushes because d-lines have to play differently. The Jets have a good run defense, but their pass defense is even better. 

 

 

Hint:  Repeating things does not make them make more sense than they did in the first place.

 

The pass defense really wasn't the problem. Four absolutely awful plays by Allen were. The first one maybe wasn't so dreadful, but the other three were.

 

And while safe plays can sometimes win the game, safe unsuccessful plays can sometimes lose it.

[C.Biscuit97]

Who would have thought that a guy who never had done the job at any level might struggle in the nfl??? And this is with a top 3 qb and borderline top 5 receiver. 
 

I get why he was promoted but it was a way riskier move than people thought it was. My move would have been to get Eric Bienemy. Imagine what he could have done with Allen. That’s a Super Bowl move right there.

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Hint:  Repeating things does not make them make more sense than they did in the first place.

 

The pass defense really wasn't the problem. Four absolutely awful plays by Allen were. The first one maybe wasn't so dreadful, but the other three were.

 

And while safe plays can sometimes win the game, safe unsuccessful plays can sometimes lose it.

?? -- The Bills had nine negative plays on dropbacks: 4 turnovers (one of which was a fumble out of the shotgun) and five sacks. They had 217 net passing yards on 47 dropbacks (including the fumble play) which is 4.6 yards per passing play. That's horrible. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by dave mcbride

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, eball said:

 

That conservative game plan was FINE until Josh took two stupid deep shots into double coverage, and then ignored a wide open Kincaid to force a throw to Davis.

 

It's not about how many times you hand off.  The short passing game was our running game and it was working.  Josh just lost his shite for some unknown reason.

 

When you're giving up that many sacks and averaging 4.6 net yards per passing play (and passing plays bring more risk than running plays), it's not working. Plus think about the opponent: Zach Wilson is horrible and the Jets' o-line is a sieve in pass pro. 

[GunnerBill]

I actually have some thoughts on Ken Dorsey big picture and last night more specifically. But I am not willing to get into them today. Because last night was on Josh Allen. And unless he plays better we are toast. Two of his three picks were into double coverage and the one he got away with to CJ Mosely was into triple coverage. You can have Bill Walsh and Don Coryell calling the plays and designing the offense. If your QB's decision making is that bad it won't matter.

 

[Airseven]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

A conservative short passing offense clearly isn’t Josh’s game… and if that’s the game they want to play it would help having some guys with speed and burst who can get instant separation with good YAC ability on the field… they don’t have that at all. Just a weird mismatch of personnel. 

Harty is good for two yards whenever you want it. 👍

[CountDorkula]

How is this Dorsey’s fault?
 

watch the underneath about the first down line. 

he has guys open. And just finest throw to them. He gets impatient and I think teams know that now. 
 

https://x.com/complexsports/status/1701604430909768105?s=46&t=aPpesQ9OFgU8cA3wnTdNeA

[pigpen65]

I watched a bunch of other games on Sunday. It's not normal for QB's of other teams to have to constantly progress through 3 or 4 reads to find a guy to throw to. The majority are one read. And it's not Allen, because when Dabol was here Allen wasn't constantly in a fire drill every single play.

Edited September 12, 2023 by pigpen65

[John from Riverside]

Three interceptions
 

You can’t put that on the offensive coordinator

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I actually have some thoughts on Ken Dorsey big picture and last night more specifically. But I am not willing to get into them today. Because last night was on Josh Allen. And unless he plays better we are toast. Two of his three picks were into double coverage and the one he got away with to CJ Mosely was into triple coverage. You can have Bill Walsh and Don Coryell calling the plays and designing the offense. If your QB's decision making is that bad it won't matter.

 

Well, I certainly don't disagree with this. But if you're an OC and see this happening -- and you have the lead against a team led by Zach Freaking Wilson -- you adjust your plan. I didn't see that last night.

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Three interceptions
 

You can’t put that on the offensive coordinator

That’s fair too 

[BillsFan130]

My biggest issue with Dorsey are two things:

 

1. Shotgun I think basically every play?

 

2. Not enough Play action.

 

You are just inviting a great jets front 4 to tee off that way