Josh has lost confidence… reasons why.

[UKBillFan]

19 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I agree on the means of communication.  I doubt there’s anyone there to tell him to pound salt.  And that’s a problem. 

All offseason I chalked up the Bengals to emotional exhaustion and some extraordinary events preceding the game.  I don’t want to overreact based on one game, and I won’t.  But I’m concerned that our QB is a benevolent, funny, kind, and yet reckless knucklehead who will never change his ways.  

 

The thing I'm hanging onto is he did. The 2021 post season through to the first half of week eight of 2022 he looked everything we thought he could be based on his physical talent. And then things started to slip though, Bengals aside, never to yesterday's extent.

 

ETA - Actually, even against the Bengals he wasn't as bad as yesterday. At least he protected the ball; was only one TO if I recall correctly.

Edited September 12, 2023 by UKBillFan

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

This is the heart of the problem. Allen is like a tweaked out artist. Way too much “going with the flow” or “reacting in the moment”  . There is no plan, no precision, no rhythm. Maybe Allen will never be that type of QB, and will always be the one that improvises on the fly. But I’m not convinced that kind of QB can win in todays game. When you watch old Manning videos, everything was nearly timed, and smooth. It was a clean clinic. When I watch Allen, half the time it’s the exact opposite, just crazy randomness with an amusement park rollercoaster that brings the thrills but on dangerous tracks that haven’t been maintained. Sure it’s fun and enthralling, but it’s not reliable or even sustainable due to the increased risks. 

It’s increasingly noticeable the tougher the defenses we play against. The chaos approaches infinity. I think DCs are finally realizing that Allen doesn’t like being boxed in and coloring within the lines. They bait him, they dare him, and he just can’t help himself. Every time it works. I sometimes wonder if Allen hasn’t been diagnosed with ADHD or something, because I see zero focusing out there or even self control. Which is incredibly sad, because Allens talent is just off the charts, but his impulse control reminds you of an edgy teenager that hasn’t fully developed mentally. 

Is it even possible for Allen to become a surgeon on the field? It’s now year 6 and there is little signs of it. Is it coachable, or is Allen simply just incapable of learning? 

 

This couldnt go in one of the many Allen threads?  You needed your own thread for this?  lol

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

This couldnt go in one of the many Allen threads?  You needed your own thread for this?  lol

I feel like it can be its own separate discussion focusing around Allens approach to the game. The other ones are focusing on other stuff. 

[Codyny13]

8 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The line is better than last year.  They held up OK against a great D line last night overall.  Dorsey made some head scratching calls, but Josh had guys open and didn’t take the easy throw.  And I don’t think defenses have figured things out.

 

Last night Josh just sucked.  Too much hero ball.  He needs to take what’s there, and last night he didn’t.

Agreed. I thought he stayed in the pocket strong instead of looking to bail. I sat in the 9th throw last night and had some good looks. I loved that he played the underneath stuff and seemingly took what the defense gave him…until he didn’t. He seems to just get bored and impatient and wants to hurry up and make a play. I’m not overreacting, he played a great defense, in what was the most raucous jets atmosphere I’ve ever been to in that stadium. It’s week 1, he needs to relax, and the coaches need to hammer that into his head. Worst part about missing Daboll was his ability to temper Allen. There was no need to take chances when you’re playing an offense that’s unequipped to be down by multiple scores. We handed them this game. Learn and move on.

[DieHardFan]

And IFS and BUTTS need to be CANDY and NUTS.

[TheBrownBear]

8 hours ago, Toledo Bill said:

A couple of years ago Josh would confidently stand in the picket and throw. Yes, he would still break out and run when needed but I remember sometimes thinking… wow, he had great protection.

I can only guess what has led to a now skittish, frustrated quarterback.

1. of course the offensive line seems to have regressed terribly.

2. Have defenses basically figured Josh (and our play calling out)?

3. Poor coaching

 

I am interested in opinions. Hopefully this is fixable.

 

 

I thought the offensive line was fine given the opponent. Defenses are throwing something at Josh such that he can't get through his progressions and make the right read.  This leads to him holding the ball and eventually bailing the pocket.  Go back and watch the 2020 tape against Saleh's SF defense.  Josh's mechanics and footwork were so much better then.  He drops back, makes quick reads, and rifles the ball to his receivers.  That guy is nowhere to be found now. 

[Milanos Milano]

My point is, can it even be changed at this point? It’s year 6 and Allen is still making really dumb plays on the field instead of just taking what the defense gives him. DCs are boxing him in and he doesn’t want to color within the lines. 

[BBFL]

8 hours ago, Slack_in_MA said:

He only loses confidence when he turns the ball over and over.

 

His problem is that patience is not his strong suit, and he has a lot of arm arrogance.

Perfectly said. 

[Trust The Process]

Allen is also not having fun. You can tell he lost his confidence. The past 3 games he's played with 3 or more turnovers. Allen is regressing and it needs to be fixed as soon as possible. In no particular order, here's what I believe needs to be done on the offensive side of the ball for now.

 

1. Fire Dorsey and replace him with a top tier offensive mind. A great QB like Allen needs to be surrounded by the best and the brightest OC's which Dorsey by light years isn't. Dorsey is almost always in Shotgun mode, hasn't adjusted, and has been figured out. Allen needs a OC he respects and is held accountable. Dorsey is Allen's buddy, Allen does what he pleases, Daboll on the other hand is someone who Allen respected, and someone who coached up Allen. Dorsey made our QB worse.

 

2. Bench Spencer Brown and replace him with Ryan Bates or trade for someone. I guarantee Allen doesn't trust Brown which is causing Allen to lose focus which translates into mistakes. Daryl Williams was a good RT, one who Allen trusted. If we can trade for a RT I would bench Morse and replace him with Ryan Bates instead. Bates is a good pass protector and a much better run blocker than Morse is.

 

3. Trade for Jonathan Taylor. Allen needs a back that he trusts, one that can take some of the pressure off of him, one that teams fear. James Cook strikes no fear in defenses. Cook should never be a starting RB, he's built like a slot reciever who plays RB, is not strong, and can't break a tackle for the life of him.  Beane severely botched the RB position and wasted valuable resources in the process. By trading for Taylor defenses will need to pick their poison, and will open it up for everyone else, and again make life easier for Allen. I'd offer the Colts Elam, Cook, and a 3rd round pick, and if need be a 2nd for Taylor which is a very fair offer.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Trust The Process

[BillsUberAlles]

I think it's the opposite. I think he is overconfident and feels he can do anything he wants out there at any time.

 

He doesn't just want to win the game 16-6 like we could have easily done if he would have played safe and just kept checking it down. The Jets were no real threat on offense.

 

He wants to win by 20 or 30. Every game. That's a problem. They have blown teams out too many times and it's fun...it's an adrenaline rush. He wants that adrenaline rush back and wants to have it every game now.

 

He needs to be happy to win some games 16-6 like yesterday would have been if he just played smarter and less "I am HIM".

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by BillsUberAlles

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

My only hope is, against the Bengals, it was a case of everyone running out of steam so there was mitigation for the humbling. Maybe he said the right words, but felt it was something a summer away from football would actually solve.

 

No excuse for yesterday, so can only hope it does act as an actual wake up call. My greatest concern is it will make him second guess himself even more.

It's a shame Rodgers is in the division and Brady used to play in division as I could otherwise see them being happy to try and help him. But why would they do so when it would potentially be to the detriment of the Jets and Pats?

When he made his ‘more focus than ever’ comments after the Cincy game I thought it sounded hollow. But after such a tough season last year the team deserved an offseason to reset so I was holding out hope that he’d follow through with his words. Then all offseason we didn’t hear any reports of him working on anything football related. And after this first game I’ve come to see that there’s validity in criticisms of him not doing the extra work to get better.

 

As for seeking Brady’s advice I’ve read that Mahomes and Burrow do that. I don’t how much Brady shares but it shows that those two guys are trying to pick the goat’s brain at least. 

[Jerome007]

So many factors but overall, Josh had a bad game, a real bad game. It happens. Yes, last year he had lots of turnovers, and again this first game, so it is worrisome. But hero ball Josh is part of his make up. Mostly for good, sometimes for bad. He needs to channel this better but it will never go away. Hopefully, this game wakes him up just a bit. I mean, Wilson was bad, only threw super short passes and looked like a rookie, not a first rounder in year 3 that played already. Yet he had only one INT and the Jets won. TEAM game, even if Josh is a magical player at times.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Jerome007

[Jauronimo]

 

[Milanos Milano]

38 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Or he'll be "cut for the very first time"

Allen has those crazy eyes like weird Al. We need surgeon Josh, not Cokey the clown. 

[transplantbillsfan]

Honestly, I think Dorsey's playcalling is what's hurting Josh.  A lot of weird calls putting us in bad down and distance situations and suddenly Josh feels like he has to be the hero.  I think against most Defenses he could be just that.  But the Jets D is clearly pretty awesome.  

 

I really would have liked to see more intermediate throws with Kincaid in the middle of the field in our game plan.

 

And what happened to traditional play action with Josh under center?  He's always thrived under that and utilizing more of those run plays under center would probably help Cook, too.

 

The whole "Josh is broken" narrative is beyond ridiculous, but this team needs to get things right, and Josh and Dorsey are at the center of it.

[78thealltimegreat]

What’s amazing is till his second int which was unforgivable he had 4 incompletions against the Jets D who will do that to many QBs. 
He is an incredible QB but he has something mechanically in his head to take risks when he doesn’t have to. 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Trust The Process said:

Allen is also not having fun. You can tell he lost his confidence. The past 3 games he's played with 3 or more turnovers. Allen is regressing and it needs to be fixed as soon as possible. In no particular order, here's what I believe needs to be done on the offensive side of the ball for now.

 

1. Fire Dorsey and replace him with a top tier offensive mind. A great QB like Allen needs to be surrounded by the best and the brightest OC's which Dorsey by light years isn't. Dorsey is almost always in Shotgun mode, hasn't adjusted, and has been figured out. Allen needs a OC he respects and is held accountable. Dorsey is Allen's buddy, Allen does what he pleases, Daboll on the other hand is someone who Allen respected, and someone who coached up Allen. Dorsey made our QB worse.

 

2. Bench Spencer Brown and replace him with Ryan Bates or trade for someone. I guarantee Allen doesn't trust Brown which is causing Allen to lose focus which translates into mistakes. Daryl Williams was a good RT, one who Allen trusted. If we can trade for a RT I would bench Morse and replace him with Ryan Bates instead. Bates is a good pass protector and a much better run blocker than Morse is.

 

3. Trade for Jonathan Taylor. Allen needs a back that he trusts, one that can take some of the pressure off of him, one that teams fear. James Cook strikes no fear in defenses. Cook should never be a starting RB, he's built like a slot reciever who plays RB, is not strong, and can't break a tackle for the life of him.  Beane severely botched the RB position and wasted valuable resources in the process. By trading for Taylor defenses will need to pick their poison, and will open it up for everyone else, and again make life easier for Allen. I'd offer the Colts Elam, Cook, and a 3rd round pick, and if need be a 2nd for Taylor which is a very fair offer.

 

 

First they can’t afford Allen.  Second having a different OC only works if Josh is going to actually listen and run the plays that are called.  Running plays OK; Dorsey should not be running Cook that much inside.  But pass plays Josh is presented options and he needs to make the read and get the ball out.  Which he did not do well last night.

[JaCrispy]

Josh has ADHD, gets bored, and loses focus when he has to efficiently matriculate the ball down the field…

 

Btw, this is a recipe for disaster if you want to win a Super Bowl…😉

[njbuff]

Two words.

 

Cole Beasley.

 

Beasley got old and it took Josh's confidence right with him.

 

[Jukester]

2 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

My point is, can it even be changed at this point? It’s year 6 and Allen is still making really dumb plays on the field instead of just taking what the defense gives him. DCs are boxing him in and he doesn’t want to color within the lines. 

I’m beginning to think he’ll never change. Lots of lip service, then same actions on the field. Quotes from him in April:

 

“I’ve never been as focused or locked in on football as I am right now. There’s a lot of times last year, just looking back at film, that I was careless with the football, careless with my body and at the end of the day, availability is the best ability. I know this sounds crazy but I’m getting older. I can’t continue to do this. Over the course of my career I’m going to have to learn to adapt and change.  I want to be the smartest quarterback with the football in my hands. I don’t want to put the ball in harm’s way because I know how detrimental that is for a team with those interceptions and the fumbles.”

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Jukester