Josh Allen since the KC win last season….22 TD’s and 16 INT’s.

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

No he didn't.  The game I was clearly referring to was the Saturday night match up that essentially won the division.  In that game Allen was brilliant rescuing the Bills from a poor defensive performance that saw the Fish take a 29 - 21 4th quarter lead.  Allen threw for 304 yards & 4 TD's and rushed for another 77 yards giving him 381 total yards and NO TO's.

 

And for crying out loud I wish the Allen haters would quit lying by omission when it comes to fumbles.  The playoff game you're referring to Allen lost 1 fumble.  Don't say he had 2 INT's and 3 fumbles when he lost only ONE.  He had 3 TO's that's the honest and correct way to describe it.

 

 

 

To be fair, fumbles and fumbles lost are 2 different stats. And fact is, he did fumble 3 times. Even if he recovered 2 of them it's still worth mentioning because it does give detail on his ball protection.

[Colorado]

I think he's been average since the second half of Green Bay last year. He's won some games and played well in some, but the fact remains he's a turnover machine. 

 

Since the second half of that Green Bay game: 

22 TDs Passing

6 TDs Rushing 

16 Ints

12 fumbles/5 lost. 

 

So in his last 13 games: 

28 TDS 

21 Turnovers

 

That's brutal and a hard way to get any consistency on offense. 

[Low Positive]

Just now, Colorado said:

I think he's been average since the second half of Green Bay last year. He's won some games and played well in some, but the fact remains he's a turnover machine. 

 

Since the second half of that Green Bay game: 

22 TDs Passing

6 TDs Rushing 

16 Ints

12 fumbles/5 lost. 

 

So in his last 13 games: 

28 TDS 

21 Turnovers

 

That's brutal and a hard way to get any consistency on offense. 

And the reason that I'm so sad this afternoon is that I don't think that it can be fixed. He's careless with the football and doesn't read the defenses properly. 

[CincyBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

To be fair, fumbles and fumbles lost are 2 different stats. And fact is, he did fumble 3 times. Even if he recovered 2 of them it's still worth mentioning because it does give detail on his ball protection.

No it's not fair.  When you pair total fumbles with INT's you are trying to mislead people.  An INT is a turnover a fumble may or may be a TO. Allen LOST one fumble that day and had 2 INT's which equals 3 TO's.  Any other way to describe it is lying IMO.  If someone wants to talk fumbles and argue that total fumbles are bad, do it and show us the data. But the way it was presented was meant to make people think Allen committed FIVE TO's.

 

 

[Billl]

9 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

No he didn't.  The game I was clearly referring to was the Saturday night match up that essentially won the division.  In that game Allen was brilliant rescuing the Bills from a poor defensive performance that saw the Fish take a 29 - 21 4th quarter lead.  Allen threw for 304 yards & 4 TD's and rushed for another 77 yards giving him 381 total yards and NO TO's.

 

And for crying out loud I wish the Allen haters would quit lying by omission when it comes to fumbles.  The playoff game you're referring to Allen lost 1 fumble.  Don't say he had 2 INT's and 3 fumbles when he lost only ONE.  He had 3 TO's that's the honest and correct way to describe it.

 

 

So it's somehow not as bad of a play if your teammate happens to fall on the ball you fumbled?  Josh didn't recover any fumbles himself, so it's not like he was responsible for fixing his own mistake.  That's like saying the pass he threw yesterday that hit Mosley in the chest wasn't a bad play because Mosley dropped it.

 

Fumbling 3 times in a playoff game is worth taking note of whether you care to admit it or not.  It's also worth nothing that Allen lost the ball on another play last night, but it was ruled that his forward progress was stopped. 

 

He has a massive issue with ball security.  That's not exactly a secret.

8 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Sorry, but have to correct you here.  Billl quoted you when you said, "Allen had an overall good game against the Dolphins in the playoffs not great but solid if you go by the numbers.", so the game you're referring to is the Play Off game rather than Week 14, when he was excellent.

In fairness, I edited my original post because I quoted the wrong piece of Cincy's post initially.

[CincyBillsFan]

10 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Sorry, but have to correct you here.  Billl quoted you when you said, "Allen had an overall good game against the Dolphins in the playoffs not great but solid if you go by the numbers.", so the game you're referring to is the Play Off game rather than Week 14, when he was excellent.

My bad.  I misread the post.  I'm getting whacked from all sides today so it's easy to get confused.

 

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

So it's somehow not as bad of a play if your teammate happens to fall on the ball you fumbled?  Josh didn't recover any fumbles himself, so it's not like he was responsible for fixing his own mistake.  That's like saying the pass he threw yesterday that hit Mosley in the chest wasn't a bad play because Mosley dropped it.

 

Fumbling 3 times in a playoff game is worth taking note of whether you care to admit it or not.  It's also worth nothing that Allen lost the ball on another play last night, but it was ruled that his forward progress was stopped. 

 

He has a massive issue with ball security.  That's not exactly a secret.

In fairness, I edited my original post because I quoted the wrong piece of Cincy's post initially.

Thanks for admitting that.  I was about to apologize to you.  I thought I saw what I read.

 

 

[MJS]

Maybe he drank too much of his own kool-aid? Not sure.

 

He certainly is not playing with a cool head. He has happy feet and is continually looking to escape the pocket regardless of pressure. He is playing too frenetic.

 

He needs to become a more cerebral QB. We've seen him do it, which is the frustrating thing.

 

Hopefully we see a more cautious Allen going forward, even if that means his production takes a dip for awhile. Once he learns to take care of the football he can start taking a few more risks again and get his swagger back. But he needs to be seriously reigned in. Hopefully Dorsey can que up some easy button plays for him.

 

As for Dorsey, I just don't know. I'm not going to pretend to know. All I can judge is what I see the players do. I know there were a few play calls I didn't like, but that happens every game for every team.

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

No it's not fair.  When you pair total fumbles with INT's you are trying to mislead people.  An INT is a turnover a fumble may or may be a TO. Allen LOST one fumble that day and had 2 INT's which equals 3 TO's.  Any other way to describe it is lying IMO.  If someone wants to talk fumbles and argue that total fumbles are bad, do it and show us the data. But the way it was presented was meant to make people think Allen committed FIVE TO's.

 

 

 

Bold is true, but also misleading through omission. "He had 2 INTs and 3 Fumbles for 3 total turnovers" is the most truthful/accurate statement.

 

If all youre talking about is turnovers, sure. But if we're talking about Allen's erratic play and loose ball control, then tell the whole story.

[CincyBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Bold is true, but also misleading through omission. "He had 2 INTs and 3 Fumbles for 3 total turnovers" is the most truthful/accurate statement.

 

If all youre talking about is turnovers, sure. But if we're talking about Allen's erratic play and loose ball control, then tell the whole story.

All I'm talking about is TO's.  That's a clear metric. 

[oldmanfan]

15 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

We have a problem.

 

 

 

Had two guys he could have flipped the ball to for a first down

[Royale with Cheese]

I'm hoping this is a real wake up call for Allen.

He's had bad games and turnovers before but last night was embarrassing.

 

He seems like a guy that when embarrassed, the fire comes back.  He doesn't have fire anymore.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Or he’ll crawl into a shell and becoming check down Charlie… I think the constant screaming at him to get down and slide, and be smarter is ***** with his head. 

 

You don't have to go to one extreme to the other.

 

Allen doesn't have the mindset to be a check down guy.  He just needs better situational awareness.
He was throwing the ball around last night like we were down by two scores late in the 4th.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

33 minutes ago, Colorado said:

I think he's been average since the second half of Green Bay last year. He's won some games and played well in some, but the fact remains he's a turnover machine. 

 

Since the second half of that Green Bay game: 

22 TDs Passing

6 TDs Rushing 

16 Ints

12 fumbles/5 lost. 

 

So in his last 13 games: 

28 TDS 

21 Turnovers

 

That's brutal and a hard way to get any consistency on offense. 

Thank you for posting that. 
 

2nd half of the GB game is when everything changed. 

[Haslett_Stomp]

4 hours ago, SCBills said:

Was driving this AM and the morning show had some honestly great points...

 

1)  Stop referring to Dorsey as a rookie OC.  Rookie OC's don't have any tape on them... until they do.  About halfway through the season teams started to figure out Dorsey's tendencies and we've been stuck in the mud ever since, putting up points by sheer talent.

 

2)  Is Allen not being told to take what the defense gives him/protect himself, or is he not listening to the coaches?   If Allen won't allow himself to be coached by the OC, the OC has to go.  Not fair to Dorsey, but it is what it is.  Can't have an OC who Allen refuses to listen to.  

 

^ this.  Dorsey reminds me of the first-time manager who struggles managing those who once were his/her peers.  Maybe Dorsey and Allen became too buddy buddy when Dorsey was the QB coach and now he (Dorsey) can't or won't rein in Allen.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Haslett_Stomp