Random talking head says something about the Bills

[Big Turk]

Oh man...this is getting wild!

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Big Turk

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Oh man...this is getting wild!

 

 

🍿

Edited 6 hours ago by Pete

[dollars 2 donuts]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Oh man...this is getting wild!

 

 

 

 

I know it is terrible, but I am so here for it.

 

Go Wiley, go, and also this just some added sauce for the goose during Championship week.

 

*that doesn't make any sense! Spock said that meaning the odds would be even, blah-blah, blah*

 

Yes, that's why I said it. The more non sensical minutia outside, the less BS inside.

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by dollars 2 donuts

[Beck Water]

12 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

I know it is terrible, but I am so here for it.

 

Go Wiley, go, and also this just some added sauce for the goose during Championship week.

 

*that doesn't make any sense! Spock said that meaning the odds would be even, blah-blah, blah*

 

Yes, that's why I said it. The more non sensical minutia outside, the less BS inside.

 

 

 

Can someone give me the quick summary on who these people are and what their point of contention is?

 

 

[Rockpile233]

I’m here for all of it Marcellus!

[DrDawkinstein]

13 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Can someone give me the quick summary on who these people are and what their point of contention is?

 

 

 

Ryan Clark, former NFL player, current TV NFL personality (on multiple stations, podcasts, etc).

Marcellus Wiley, former Buffalo Bill, former(?) TV personality, now podcaster.

 

Ryan Clark is one of many African-American former players/TV personalities who witnessed the old-school, systemic racism against Lamar Jackson coming into the league. Lamar was a Heisman winner at a fairly major program and had years of tape of him throwing the ball. Yet, the "old school" NFL guys and GMs never gave him his proper respect as a prospect. Really hit a peak when Bill Polian went on national TV and said Lamar should switch to WR. Just an absolute horrible take and insult to Lamar.

 

Then draft day 2018 happened, and they watched Lamar slide all the way to #32, while other possible lesser prospects went before him. The most glaring being the super raw, major longshot project from a D2 school in Wyoming, Josh Allen.

 

For many of these guys (Stephen A Smith, Damien Woody, Bart Scott, Ryan Clark, etc) it was more of the same ol same ol. Disrespect of the young black man, while over-respecting the white kid.

 

And in many ways they werent wrong. And proven further correct by Lamar's success at QB in the NFL.

 

The issue is, a lot of these guys somehow blame Josh himself for his and Lamar's draft position. So they are ALWAYS trying to prove Lamar is better than Josh in order to right the wrongs of the 2018 draft. And they usually do that by tearing down Josh for no reason.

 

Marcellus called Clark out on those types of takes. And now we have the drama of today.

 

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by DrDawkinstein

[Augie]

I don’t think the NFL has any problem picking Black QB’s in the draft (see link). Lamar was a bit quirky in his delivery, as I recall. I could be wrong on that, but I think it was the player, not his skin color. 

 

https://wzakcleveland.com/playlist/black-nfl-qb-quarterback-first-round/item/1

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ryan Clark, former NFL player, current TV NFL personality (on multiple stations, podcasts, etc).

Marcellus Wiley, former Buffalo Bill, former(?) TV personality, now podcaster.

 

Ryan Clark is one of many African-American former players/TV personalities who witnessed the old-school, systemic racism against Lamar Jackson coming into the league. Lamar was a Heisman winner at a fairly major program and had years of tape of him throwing the ball. Yet, the "old school" NFL guys and GMs never gave him his proper respect as a prospect. Really hit a peak when Bill Polian went on national TV and said Lamar should switch to WR. Just an absolute horrible take and insult to Lamar.

 

Then draft day 2018 happened, and they watched Lamar slide all the way to #32, while other possible lesser prospects went before him. The most glaring being the super raw, major longshot project from a D2 school in Wyoming, Josh Allen.

 

For many of these guys (Stephen A Smith, Damien Woody, Bart Scott, Ryan Clark, etc) it was more of the same ol same ol. Disrespect of the young black man, while over-respecting the white kid.

 

And in many ways they werent wrong. And proven further correct by Lamar's success at QB in the NFL.

 

The issue is, a lot of these guys somehow blame Josh himself for his and Lamar's draft position. So they are ALWAYS trying to prove Lamar is better than Josh in order to right the wrongs of the 2018 draft.

 

Marcellus called Clark out on those types of takes. And now we have the drama of today.

 

Thank you, that is very clear.  

 

I think it's pretty clear that Josh and Lamar have built a very respectful relationship where they recognize each other's talents.

From a sideline perspective, neither of the two of them were very good passers as of the draft.  The disrespect was piled pretty high and deep for both.  Josh got more recognition as a passer because of the arm-cannon attached to his right shoulder, while his mobility was almost completely overlooked in the press.   Lamar got more recognition for his running ability.   And you're right, the "switch to WR" take by Polian was just horrible, disrespectful and plain bad.

 

I have wondered if the all-pro and MVP voting have been biased by elements of "blame the white kid for the pre-draft takes on Lamar"?

 

I will say I thought Stephen A Smith was very fair to Josh pre-draft when his old tweets came out.

[Pete]

 

[Success]

I have been a fan of Clark in the past - but he was SO OVER THE TOP after the playoff loss last year about Allen.

 

I lost a lot of respect.  I'm sure that doesn't bother him, but I usually change the channels when he's on now.

 

[DapperCam]

14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ryan Clark, former NFL player, current TV NFL personality (on multiple stations, podcasts, etc).

Marcellus Wiley, former Buffalo Bill, former(?) TV personality, now podcaster.

 

Ryan Clark is one of many African-American former players/TV personalities who witnessed the old-school, systemic racism against Lamar Jackson coming into the league. Lamar was a Heisman winner at a fairly major program and had years of tape of him throwing the ball. Yet, the "old school" NFL guys and GMs never gave him his proper respect as a prospect. Really hit a peak when Bill Polian went on national TV and said Lamar should switch to WR. Just an absolute horrible take and insult to Lamar.

 

Then draft day 2018 happened, and they watched Lamar slide all the way to #32, while other possible lesser prospects went before him. The most glaring being the super raw, major longshot project from a D2 school in Wyoming, Josh Allen.

 

For many of these guys (Stephen A Smith, Damien Woody, Bart Scott, Ryan Clark, etc) it was more of the same ol same ol. Disrespect of the young black man, while over-respecting the white kid.

 

And in many ways they werent wrong. And proven further correct by Lamar's success at QB in the NFL.

 

The issue is, a lot of these guys somehow blame Josh himself for his and Lamar's draft position. So they are ALWAYS trying to prove Lamar is better than Josh in order to right the wrongs of the 2018 draft. And they usually do that by tearing down Josh for no reason.

 

Marcellus called Clark out on those types of takes. And now we have the drama of today.

 

 

 

Not related to the point of your post, but small correction: Wyoming is D1 and was when Josh Allen played there, just small and not historically successful (kind of like UB).

[CNYfan]

I believe the anti-Josh media among ex-players is very much race based.  

[GoBills808]

the worst part personally is the TV shows don't know how to celebrate Jackson properly w/out glaring inconsistencies in their coverage of Allen

 

it sucks tbh. i'm a big lamar guy and the NFL media is just hellbent on making sure it's one or the other when they both deserve their props

[Augie]

17 minutes ago, Pete said:

 

 

Hmmm, so that’s what I’m missing by not watching ESPN.  

[DrDawkinstein]

12 minutes ago, Augie said:

I don’t think the NFL has any problem picking Black QB’s in the draft (see link). Lamar was a bit quirky in his delivery, as I recall. I could be wrong on that, but I think it was the player, not his skin color. 

 

https://wzakcleveland.com/playlist/black-nfl-qb-quarterback-first-round/item/1

 

Couldnt have been any quirkier than Allen's, who didnt even learn to throw properly until 2019-2020 according to his recent interview with Chris Simms. But I'm sure that's what most GMs/Executives would tell you too.

 

Look, I dont think it was blatent racism, but it was latent racism. Which is almost worse since it's tougher to fight. "He doesnt fit the prototype". Nevermind that the prototype was set 40 years ago when it was nearly impossible for black guys to play QB.

 

That link is interesting, because the first 11 players listed on it were drafted in only the last few years. AFTER Lamar proved the world wrong.

 

But you dont have to go much farther past 2018 to see the issues.

 

Heck, in 2017, that draft had both Mahomes AND DeShaun Watson fresh off a National Championship. But who was the first QB drafted that year? Mitch Frickin Trubisky who had achieved nothing at UNC. Those other 2 guys slid out of the top 10.

 

Look at 2011. Cam Newton, fresh off a Heisman and National Championship. But the scouts/executives/etc just couldnt fathom him being the best QB available so everyone pushed "golden boy" Blaine Gabbert to the top of the prospects list.

 

All those kids recently drafted early in that article owe Lamar a big thanks.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Thank you, that is very clear.  

 

I think it's pretty clear that Josh and Lamar have built a very respectful relationship where they recognize each other's talents.

From a sideline perspective, neither of the two of them were very good passers as of the draft.  The disrespect was piled pretty high and deep for both.  Josh got more recognition as a passer because of the arm-cannon attached to his right shoulder, while his mobility was almost completely overlooked in the press.   Lamar got more recognition for his running ability.   And you're right, the "switch to WR" take by Polian was just horrible, disrespectful and plain bad.

 

I have wondered if the all-pro and MVP voting have been biased by elements of "blame the white kid for the pre-draft takes on Lamar"?

 

I will say I thought Stephen A Smith was very fair to Josh pre-draft when his old tweets came out.

 

Yeah, it was less the pre-draft stuff, and I think more so how the actual draft went. The pre-draft stuff planted the seeds, and then the slide to #32 just sealed the deal.

 

And these guys arent necessarily WRONG for seeing it that way, or for sticking up for Lamar. But they are wrong in trying to defend Lamar by tearing down Josh. They should go after the NFL GMs. Especially in Arizona, Denver, Miami, etc. who all passed on Lamar.

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Hmmm, so that’s what I’m missing by not watching ESPN.  

 

I was thinking that very same thing.  "Yo, lemme run right out and sign up to spend my money listening to these guys spew this stuff"

 

Not

 

The bottom line for me is that we like to act like it's the QBs who win or lose the games.  And it's true that the QB is the player on the field who has the single greatest influence over the outcome.  But in the end, there are 10 other offensive and 11 defensive players on the field every snap.

[dollars 2 donuts]

9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

the worst part personally is the TV shows don't know how to celebrate Jackson properly w/out glaring inconsistencies in their coverage of Allen

 

it sucks tbh. i'm a big lamar guy and the NFL media is just hellbent on making sure it's one or the other when they both deserve their props

 

 

I wanted Lamar or Allen.

 

I would have been happy with Lamar.

 

I am absolutely, positively sick and tired of this being a Josh Allen thing, alone.

 

I don't see this between Lamar and Burrow.

 

I don't see this between Lamar and Mahomes.

 

You only see the littlest bit between Burrow and Mahomes.

 

However, you get double barrel doses between Allen and Lamar.

 

...and you get it between Allen and Burrow...

 

..and you most certainly get it between Allen and Mahomes.

 

and the "this" and the "between" is invariably, "Quarterback (insert name here) is way better than Josh Allen.  I don't know why Allen doesn't kill himself already, or at least retire"*

 

 

* I added that last part.

 

 

[CNYfan]

6 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

I wanted Lamar or Allen.

 

I would have been happy with Lamar.

 

I am absolutely, positively sick and tired of this being a Josh Allen thing, alone.

 

I don't see this between Lamar and Burrow.

 

I don't see this between Lamar and Mahomes.

 

You only see the littlest bit between Burrow and Mahomes.

 

However, you get double barrel doses between Allen and Lamar.

 

...and you get it between Allen and Burrow...

 

..and you most certainly get it between Allen and Mahomes.

 

and the "this" and the "between" is invariably, "Quarterback (insert name here) is way better than Josh Allen.  I don't know why Allen doesn't kill himself already, or at least retire"*

 

 

* I added that last part.

 

 

Exactly.  This is specifically a vendetta, racially based, but specifically against Josh.   

Because Josh is the best and that media cannot deal with it.  

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Couldnt have been any quirkier than Allen's, who didnt even learn to throw properly until 2019-2020 according to his recent interview with Chris Simms. But I'm sure that's what most GMs/Executives would tell you too.

 

Look, I dont think it was blatent racism, but it was latent racism. Which is almost worse since it's tougher to fight. "He doesnt fit the prototype". Nevermind that the prototype was set 40 years ago when it was nearly impossible for black guys to play QB.

 

That link is interesting, because the first 11 players listed on it were drafted in only the last few years. AFTER Lamar proved the world wrong.

 

But you dont have to go much farther past 2018 to see the issues.

 

Heck, in 2017, that draft had both Mahomes AND DeShaun Watson fresh off a National Championship. But who was the first QB drafted that year? Mitch Frickin Trubisky who had achieved nothing at UNC. Those other 2 guys slid out of the top 10.

 

Look at 2011. Cam Newton, fresh off a Heisman and National Championship. But the scouts/executives/etc just couldnt fathom him being the best QB available so everyone pushed "golden boy" Blaine Gabbert to the top of the prospects list.

 

All those kids recently drafted early in that article owe Lamar a big thanks.

 

 

 

Yeah, it was less the pre-draft stuff, and I think more so how the actual draft went. The pre-draft stuff planted the seeds, and then the slide to #32 just sealed the deal.

 

And these guys arent necessarily WRONG for seeing it that way, or for sticking up for Lamar. But they are wrong in trying to defend Lamar by tearing down Josh. They should go after the NFL GMs. Especially in Arizona, Denver, Miami, etc. who all passed on Lamar.

 

I will say this about Lamar pre-draft.  There have been accounts  that the Ravens had pre-draft meetings where they basically sat down and said something like:

"if we draft Lamar Jackson, we have to be willing to tailor our offense to let him be successful.  Are we All In for that?  Because if we aren't, then we shouldn't"

"Yes, we're all in, Let's Do It."

"OK"

They had Greg Roman already on their staff in 2017 who had designed successful offenses for Colin Kaepernick and Tyrod Taylor, who aren't nearly the athletes Jackson is but who were along the same spectrum when they played.  That may have helped them see it as possible.  So they put the pieces together in 2018 and turned him loose in 2019.

 

 

[Augie]

12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Couldnt have been any quirkier than Allen's, who didnt even learn to throw properly until 2019-2020 according to his recent interview with Chris Simms. But I'm sure that's what most GMs/Executives would tell you too.

 

Look, I dont think it was blatent racism, but it was latent racism. Which is almost worse since it's tougher to fight. "He doesnt fit the prototype". Nevermind that the prototype was set 40 years ago when it was nearly impossible for black guys to play QB.

 

That link is interesting, because the first 11 players listed on it were drafted in only the last few years. AFTER Lamar proved the world wrong.

 

But you dont have to go much farther past 2018 to see the issues.

 

Heck, in 2017, that draft had both Mahomes AND DeShaun Watson fresh off a National Championship. But who was the first QB drafted that year? Mitch Frickin Trubisky who had achieved nothing at UNC. Those other 2 guys slid out of the top 10.

 

Look at 2011. Cam Newton, fresh off a Heisman and National Championship. But the scouts/executives/etc just couldnt fathom him being the best QB available so everyone pushed "golden boy" Blaine Gabbert to the top of the prospects list.

 

All those kids recently drafted early in that article owe Lamar a big thanks.

 

 

 

Yeah, it was less the pre-draft stuff, and I think more so how the actual draft went. The pre-draft stuff planted the seeds, and then the slide to #32 just sealed the deal.

 

And these guys arent necessarily WRONG for seeing it that way, or for sticking up for Lamar. But they are wrong in trying to defend Lamar by tearing down Josh. They should go after the NFL GMs. Especially in Arizona, Denver, Miami, etc. who all passed on Lamar.

 

Why do they owe Lamar thanks? Shouldn’t it be shared with the guys who were drafted in the years ahead of him? Why are we singling out Lamar?