Random talking head says something about the Bills

[BananaB]

56 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

It’s not that I don’t want to win a championship It’s just my objective opinion on the matter. 
 

if there was a coach that I believe could come in right away and win a championship I’d do it in a heartbeat. If you fire McD you lose all player development, now need to bring in new players to fit the new scheme, and rebuild the culture. That’s a couple year overhaul which takes us past Josh’s prime.

 

So we are basically in no man’s land. Which is why I think we sit pat with the current regime outside some major catastrophe 

What are you talking about. So you think if we move on from McD all players drafted are wasted? That’s what I get from this post. We’ve seen team that are total ***** change coaches and have success. If a coaching change is made, you think taking over a 14-3 team would be easier then taking over a losing team. There is not many cases of solid coaches that have got fired because they can’t get over the hump in the playoffs, the only one I can think of is Dungy/Gruden in Tampa. They won the Super Bowl the next year.  
 

Some people scared to make a change when Josh is at his prime, I get that. But if McDs scheme is problem that keeps dragging this team down in the playoffs, he’s either gotta change or gotta go. 
 

If McD did get fired, the idea that we are starting over is completely foolish

[Blackbeard]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

late in the game

I think to fairly and honestly make a coaching assessment, you look at his whole body of work.  Not just cherry pick a few random hindsight calls, from late in the game.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Blackbeard

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, RunTheBall said:

This whole conversation is kind of funny because Terry put McD in his will and made him executor of his estate. He’s going nowhere anytime soon.

He'd pry have them coach the Sabres if it was logistically possible.

[VaMilBill]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

What are you talking about. So you think if we move on from McD all players drafted are wasted? That’s what I get from this post. We’ve seen team that are total ***** change coaches and have success. If a coaching change is made, you think taking over a 14-3 team would be easier then taking over a losing team. There is not many cases of solid coaches that have got fired because they can’t get over the hump in the playoffs, the only one I can think of is Dungy/Gruden in Tampa. They won the Super Bowl the next year.  
 

Some people scared to make a change when Josh is at his prime, I get that. But if McDs scheme is problem that keeps dragging this team down in the playoffs, he’s either gotta change or gotta go. 
 

If McD did get fired, the idea that we are starting over is completely foolish

I mean our defense is built around a pretty unique system and a lot of its players are system players. Have we had any defenders leave our team and go be successful elsewhere under McD? I’d argue no. I can think of Levi Wallace, Tremaine Edmunds, Tre White, Poyer, Jordan Phillips. I’m sure there are more.  All those guys were successful with us and regressed after leaving the Bills. 
 

Plus you think of players like Hamlin, who are subpar athletes, but are solid players for us right now is because they’ve been developed within our system. They have experience in the defense and how it functions. I can guarantee players like him will struggle in another system. Even Benford would struggle if we went or a largely man defense in my opinion. Or at least he wouldn’t be nearly as good as he is in the current system. Same with Bernard. Keep in mind, the talent level on our defense is not very good. We really don’t have any elite players. Just players that are greater as a whole  

Edited December 30, 2024 by VaMilBill

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I mean our defense is built around a pretty unique system and a lot of its players are system players. Have we had any defenders leave our team and go be successful elsewhere under McD? I’d argue no. I can think of Levi Wallace, Tremaine Edmunds, Tre White, Poyer, Jordan Phillips. I’m sure there are more.  All those guys were successful with us and regressed after leaving the Bills. 
 

Plus you think of players like Hamlin, who are subpar athletes, but are solid players for us right now is because they’ve been developed within our system. They have experience in the defense and how it functions. I can guarantee players like him will struggle in another system. Even Bernard would struggle if we went or a largely man defense in my opinion. Or at least he wouldn’t be nearly as good as he is in the current system. Same with Bernard. Keep in mind, the talent level on our defense is not very good. We really don’t have any elite players. Just players that are greater as a whole  

 

Our system also allows us to play with more affordable zone corners. Guys like Grabby Sauce Gardner are harder to find and more expensive to keep.  We’ve been watching coaching turnover for decades. We know how it really goes. We need bigger or smaller linemen, because we want to be more stout or faster. Groot is really a 4-2 DE, what does he do in a 3-4? All that stuff happens to some degree every time. It’s not the only thing, but it’s a real thing.  

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

What are you talking about. So you think if we move on from McD all players drafted are wasted? That’s what I get from this post. We’ve seen team that are total ***** change coaches and have success. If a coaching change is made, you think taking over a 14-3 team would be easier then taking over a losing team. There is not many cases of solid coaches that have got fired because they can’t get over the hump in the playoffs, the only one I can think of is Dungy/Gruden in Tampa. They won the Super Bowl the next year.  
 

Some people scared to make a change when Josh is at his prime, I get that. But if McDs scheme is problem that keeps dragging this team down in the playoffs, he’s either gotta change or gotta go. 
 

If McD did get fired, the idea that we are starting over is completely foolish

If the Bills can’t reach the AFCCG or Super Bowl and a HC change is made, it could be concerning though. A popular candidate from fans is Ben Johnson or someone like that. As you mention, there isn’t much of a track record for this type of change. A more logical replacement would be a proven NFL veteran HC. You cited Gruden as an example. When you have a superstar QB and a team that consistently wins 11 or so games a year, turning the keys over to a “ hot coordinator “ is suspect at best. You are trying to extract the final degrees of improvement from a winning team; to win a championship. Starting over is not an option. 

[DrMaxPower]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

You seem to be confused.

 

Folks aren’t mad that McD makes calls. They are upset that they are almost always the wrong call, late in the game.

Except he doesn't.

 

People remember the half a dozen things that went wrong, not the 100s of correct decisions made over 8 years of end game situations.

 

We've won the 2nd most games in the league. It's impossible for him to almost always be making the wrong call late in the game.

[BananaB]

12 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I mean our defense is built around a pretty unique system and a lot of its players are system players. Have we had any defenders leave our team and go be successful elsewhere under McD? I’d argue no. I can think of Levi Wallace, Tremaine Edmunds, Tre White, Poyer, Jordan Phillips. I’m sure there are more.  All those guys were successful with us and regressed after leaving the Bills. 
 

Plus you think of players like Hamlin, who are subpar athletes, but are solid players for us right now is because they’ve been developed within our system. They have experience in the defense and how it functions. I can guarantee players like him will struggle in another system. Even Bernard would struggle if we went or a largely man defense in my opinion. Or at least he wouldn’t be nearly as good as he is in the current system. Same with Bernard. Keep in mind, the talent level on our defense is not very good. We really don’t have any elite players. Just players that are greater as a whole  

Really your gonna bring up Tre and Poyer. Tre after 2 injuries and Poyer after father time took his speed. People have been saying Poyer has been regressing for years. 
I’m not sure about Edmunds regressing in Chicago, can’t really comment on that. Levi was always the weakest link and maybe Phillips is just better when he gets that high amount of rotation the Bills Dlineman get in Buffalo.  Doesn’t mean everything is wasted.  You are basically saying we have no options but McDs system until Joshs career is over. That’s total bull####. 

10 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

If the Bills can’t reach the AFCCG or Super Bowl and a HC change is made, it could be concerning though. A popular candidate from fans is Ben Johnson or someone like that. As you mention, there isn’t much of a track record for this type of change. A more logical replacement would be a proven NFL veteran HC. You cited Gruden as an example. When you have a superstar QB and a team that consistently wins 11 or so games a year, turning the keys over to a “ hot coordinator “ is suspect at best. You are trying to extract the final degrees of improvement from a winning team; to win a championship. Starting over is not an option. 

You’re not starting over. 

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Really your gonna bring up Tre and Poyer. Tre after 2 injuries and Poyer after father time took his speed. People have been saying Poyer has been regressing for years. 
I’m not sure about Edmunds regressing in Chicago, can’t really comment on that. Levi was always the weakest link and maybe Phillips is just better when he gets that high amount of rotation the Bills Dlineman get in Buffalo.  Doesn’t mean everything is wasted.  You are basically saying we have no options but McDs system until Joshs career is over. That’s total bull####. 

You’re not starting over. 

Yes you are. Totally new defensive system means new players, probably a couple of seasons to put together. New offensive system ( again) with similar requirements most likely. Then top it off with a coordinator who hasn’t proven they can be a decent HC, much less a very good one. Again, the only acceptable option here would be a proven NFL HC, preferably one with a championship ring. If you want a coordinator, make Joe Brady the HC. 
 Anyway, my hope is the Bills reach the AFC title game at a minimum and these changes aren’t necessary in the peak of Josh Allen’s career. 

[Sojourner]

1 hour ago, djp14150 said:

 

2020.. 3 red zone trips, 2 1st and goal, 2 FGs and an interception. They lose by 6.

2021 13 seconds+ OT rules

2022 What happened that year with Hamlin just effected the team against Cincinati like it just spent their energy.

2023 they had injuries losing Milano and Tre.  Missed FG to tie late.

 

2023 Miam playoffs…

 

Skylar throws for 220 while Allen throws 350.

20-17 BUF at half. 14 come from 2 turnovers and punt return ( FG, FG, TD+2)giving them a short field 

2nd half, Miami gets a 2nd half sack, fumble, TD for 24-20

Bills put up 2 TDs 

Miami scores making it 34-31

 

Miami ST and D produce 21 points by giving short fields or scoring themselves.

they returned  the favor giving BUF a short field TD

 

 

 

 

Listen man, I have no problem with McD. I’m just pointing out that every excuse for failing is there. 
 

Offense. Defense. Injuries. 
 

At some point coaching has to move you past that. The Cincinnati game is the only one I question McD for what he’s great at; a leader of men. That whole team wasn’t ready to play and the excuse of what happened to Damar shouldn’t be a reason anyone would as playing poorly. The narrative was we escaped a loss earlier in the year and that the Bengals were going to roll us that game before the unfortunate circumstances that led to a cancellation.  Well they did roll us. When it mattered. 
 

Regarding the Miami situation, yes. @GunnerBill already pointed that out and like I replied it slipped my mind that they scored a defensive TD. I attributed those points to their offense. Doesn’t remove the situation late in the game that Thompson and the team moved the ball at the end. Their final drive had a delay of game on 4th & 1, who knows if they would have got it. Drive ended 10 yards short of FG range for them. 
 

Again, I’m citing that there’s been multiple let downs on defense and the team flat out not even showing up. That falls on McD. 
 

Im supporting him and whoever is in this organization but there comes a point when you have an otherworldly talent at QB and you continue to fall short that questions need to be asked. Hence the competitive AFCC or a Super Bowl appearance/win for him to get a pass without any questions regarding job security. Failing those two options, 2025 would have to be Super Bowl or bust. 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, DrMaxPower said:

Except he doesn't.

People remember the half a dozen things that went wrong, not the 100s of correct decisions made over 8 years of end game situations.

 

We've won the 2nd most games in the league. It's impossible for him to almost always be making the wrong call late in the game.

Thats not true.

The reason we win so many games despite bad end of game calls is because we also have the most double digit wins over those same years you references.

Thats a mixture of Josh Allen and good coaching by McD and others... until the end of the game.

[chris heff]

8 hours ago, FireChans said:

Correct. They fired him and won one before he did.

Correct and then cut the QB and eventually fired that coach. 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Our system also allows us to play with more affordable zone corners. Guys like Grabby Sauce Gardner are harder to find and more expensive to keep.  We’ve been watching coaching turnover for decades. We know how it really goes. We need bigger or smaller linemen, because we want to be more stout or faster. Groot is really a 4-2 DE, what does he do in a 3-4? All that stuff happens to some degree every time. It’s not the only thing, but it’s a real thing.  

 

Yep.  Everyone was led by Tim Graham to totally dunk on Whaley his last year here with the stat about the Bills having the fewest players they drafted on the team.  Like that meant Whaley didn't draft talent.  Except that Whaley did draft talent, both as Nix understudy and as GM - shown by the fact that a number of players he drafted had decent careers or are still in the league.   But the Bills moved on because every time we swapped coaches - from Gailey to Marrone to Ryan to McDermott - the players did not suit their scheme so they were jettisoned or left to walk in FA, in favor of FA or draftees who were a better scheme fit. 

Continuity provides a talent advantage.

[Ralonzo]

6 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

I think to fairly and honestly make a coaching assessment, you look at his whole body of work.  Not just cherry pick a few random hindsight calls, from late in the game.

 

The "defensive timeout to let the offense get into a better play" isn't a few random hindsight calls, it's a friggin' meme. It's 13 seconds - twice. It happened again yesterday. It drive me absolutely bonkers. The offense gains FAR more advantage from the time that the D can gain from seeing an alignment that they may not even run back out (and since they saw yours as well).

[FireChans]

52 minutes ago, chris heff said:

Correct and then cut the QB and eventually fired that coach. 

Championships last forever though.

 

what is the concern here? We hire an HC that cuts Josh? That even if a new HC wins a championship, he still might get fired one day?
 

 

[Chaos]

5 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

I mean our defense is built around a pretty unique system and a lot of its players are system players. Have we had any defenders leave our team and go be successful elsewhere under McD? I’d argue no. I can think of Levi Wallace, Tremaine Edmunds, Tre White, Poyer, Jordan Phillips. I’m sure there are more.  All those guys were successful with us and regressed after leaving the Bills. 
 

Plus you think of players like Hamlin, who are subpar athletes, but are solid players for us right now is because they’ve been developed within our system. They have experience in the defense and how it functions. I can guarantee players like him will struggle in another system. Even Benford would struggle if we went or a largely man defense in my opinion. Or at least he wouldn’t be nearly as good as he is in the current system. Same with Bernard. Keep in mind, the talent level on our defense is not very good. We really don’t have any elite players. Just players that are greater as a whole  

I think almost any staff can take over this defense and hold the Rams to 44 points. 

[VaMilBill]

5 hours ago, BananaB said:

Really your gonna bring up Tre and Poyer. Tre after 2 injuries and Poyer after father time took his speed. People have been saying Poyer has been regressing for years. 
I’m not sure about Edmunds regressing in Chicago, can’t really comment on that. Levi was always the weakest link and maybe Phillips is just better when he gets that high amount of rotation the Bills Dlineman get in Buffalo.  Doesn’t mean everything is wasted.  You are basically saying we have no options but McDs system until Joshs career is over. That’s total bull####. 

You’re not starting over. 

First off, calm down on the rhetoric. I’m not getting into an argument with you. I’m simply stating what I believe to be objective points. That’s a fair point on Tre, but know one thought his injury would make him pretty useless at this point. Or maybe it’s both the injury and changing systems. Also, Poyer was slowing down, but the drop off in changing systems with getting older only exacerbated his ineffectiveness. Keep in mind, he was still a solid player for us last year. 
 

And I’m not saying McD is our only option. I’m saying what I think Terry is probably thinking. And your opinion doesn’t matter and neither does mine. Only Terry’s. 
 

one last thing to consider, how many times has a new coach taken their team to the Super Bowl within their first two years on the job. I can only find 5. Not great odds. 

[3rdand12]

7 hours ago, BananaB said:

What are you talking about. So you think if we move on from McD all players drafted are wasted? That’s what I get from this post. We’ve seen team that are total ***** change coaches and have success. If a coaching change is made, you think taking over a 14-3 team would be easier then taking over a losing team. There is not many cases of solid coaches that have got fired because they can’t get over the hump in the playoffs, the only one I can think of is Dungy/Gruden in Tampa. They won the Super Bowl the next year.  
 

Some people scared to make a change when Josh is at his prime, I get that. But if McDs scheme is problem that keeps dragging this team down in the playoffs, he’s either gotta change or gotta go. 
 

If McD did get fired, the idea that we are starting over is completely foolish

Disagree on that point .

 The Players do Not make the Team what it is on and off the Field.

 Its Coaching and structure + players who buy in / and are skilled enough to execute.

 Josh is the exception to that rule But the other fifty + some players are not.

BTW I am not on board with moving on from McD

Frazier ? yes . The Laptop Smasher ? Yes 

39 minutes ago, Chaos said:

I think almost any staff can take over this defense and hold the Rams to 44 points. 

Really wanted that 1st seed din't you ?

[Chaos]

11 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Disagree on that point .

 The Players do Not make the Team what it is on and off the Field.

 Its Coaching and structure + players who buy in / and are skilled enough to execute.

 Josh is the exception to that rule But the other fifty + some players are not.

BTW I am not on board with moving on from McD

Frazier ? yes . The Laptop Smasher ? Yes 

Really wanted that 1st seed din't you ?

there may be lots of reasons to retain the Bills coaching staff.  Clutch defensive performance in playoff games is not high on the list of retention reasons. 

[3rdand12]

6 minutes ago, Chaos said:

there may be lots of reasons to retain the Bills coaching staff.  Clutch defensive performance in playoff games is not high on the list of retention reasons. 

Agreed on that point !