Random talking head says something about the Bills

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Teams don't always finish with the same records or better every year...Levy went from 12-4 to 9-7 one year before going 13-3 2 seasons in a row.  Every season has different variables and challenges to them that need to be overcome and sometimes injuries play a bigger part in some seasons than in other seasons.

 

 

We can find at least one exception for any situation that we want.  But absolutely no one would say, let's keep drafting QBs only in rounds 6 & 7, that's where Purdy and Brady were found.  "You telling me that great QBs can't be had in rounds 6 & 7?"  ... for example.  Sure, anything's po;ssible, but whether it's likely is altogether another.  

 

Levy sucked hind teet in KC.  He was awful.  

 

Moreover, he too got by on the talent of the team that Polian put together.  Polian called that group of talent "special."  It was special.  

 

Why do you think that Levy degenerated to a .500 coach the moment that Polian was fired and stopped bringing talent in through his pipeline.  

 

Had we had Parcells, Johnson, or Gibbs coaching the Bills from '90 to '93, we'd have two Super Bowl wins by now.  

 

It's similar here, today.  

 

Either way, and again, we can go back-n-forth, but it doesn't matter, but at this point the pressure's on McD at the national level now to produce.  

 

I don't think that there are too many people out there however, even among Bills Mafia, that are going to be very patient for the same records that our prior coaching staffs and crap QBs were getting, when McD has Allen, which alone should produce double-digit wins every season.  At that point it's quite reasonable for people to seriously start asking questions as to whether it's more Allen or more McD.  Many of us already know the answer to it.  I suspect taht by week 12 or so most of the rest will too.  

 

But we'll see.  

 

And I'll say it again, to date we've had the second easiest schedule in the NFL.  If McD can even go .500 from here on out with teams at the top-half, not the bottom-half, of the league, then it'll be semi-remarkable.  

 

Let's see how we play against Tampa on Sunday.  The crowd's going to let us know how they feel if we treat the first half like a scrimmage again.  

 

 

[Billever76]

3 hours ago, Roundybout said:

No, the “process” was turning around a pathetic nothing franchise festering in 17 years of futility and turning it into a contender. That was accomplished. I don’t know why people STILL bash the process thing. 

That was more Josh allen and stefon Diggs lol..without josh allen this team struggles to win 6 games pal ...Let me ask you this?! Do you still Trust the process? I'm gonna leave this here...instead of von Miller we could have aj brown opposite diggs or devante adams....said it when McDermott and bean went and spent everything on another weapon for his defense....we have watched this scheme get absolutely shredded in every post season loss we have had 😆 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Billever76

[Radar]

21 hours ago, RiotAct said:

I mean, that’s pretty much what everyone feared would happen with four starters (most if not all KEY starters, too) out on defense.

This tendency was there before these injuries though.

[folz]

On 10/24/2023 at 2:18 PM, PBF81 said:

 

Levy sucked hind teet in KC.  He was awful.  

 

Moreover, he too got by on the talent of the team that Polian put together.  Polian called that group of talent "special."  It was special.  

 

Why do you think that Levy degenerated to a .500 coach the moment that Polian was fired and stopped bringing talent in through his pipeline.  

 

Had we had Parcells, Johnson, or Gibbs coaching the Bills from '90 to '93, we'd have two Super Bowl wins by now.  

 

 

Sorry to go somewhat off-topic here, but this is such a bad take that gets repeated by so many posters/Bills fans.

 

Marv Levy was an excellent coach and well deserving of his HOF induction.

 

You do realize that when he was hired by the Kansas City Chiefs in 1978, they were by far the worst team in the NFL. They were coming off of a 2-12 record, had very little talent, and just before the 1978 season started, their two best defensive players decided to retire. And despite that---and having nobody QBs such as Tony Woods, Steve Fuller, and Tom Clements---the team improved each year under Levy's watch. He took them from a 2-12 team to a 9-7 team in 4 years. Not outstanding, but you have to remember this was pre-free agency, so it took teams a lot longer to turn things around and a lot of that depended on how good the front office was and how committed to winning the owner was. The year after he left, they reverted back down to 6 wins.

 

Not to mention that in 5 years in the CFL, he took the Montreal Allouttes to the Grey Cup 3 times, winning two Championships, being named coach of the year in 1974, and was later inducted into their HOF as well.

 

He also won a Championship with the Coe College Men's basketball team and in two years as head football coach at the University of New Mexico, turned that program around and won Skyline Coach of the Year. In his 5 years at William & Mary, he won Southern Conference Coach of the year twice. And twice in the NFL (1988 and 1993) he won NFL Coach of the Year.

 

So, NFL Coach of the year twice, CFL coach of the year, Skyline Coach of the year, two-time Southern Conference coach of the year. You don't get those accolades from multiple places if you aren't really good or by just getting lucky with talent.

 

And, of course, the 4 Super Bowl appearances. Many NFL coaches never even make one Suer Bowl, and many very-talented teams never make a SB, let alone have the tenacity, character, and perseverance to make 4 in a row (despite the loses). How many football coaches have taken their teams to 7 Championship games? Even though he only won 2 of them, you have to be a damn good coach to take that many teams to the final game of the season.

 

And to say he reverted to a .500 coach when Polian left is also a bit misleading. First of all his record after Polian left was 45-35 (56.25%). The team had three of five winning seasons and three playoff appearances. But, you are also not taking into account the aging of players, etc. For example, Jim Kelly was a shell of himself in the 1996 season and was retired for the 1997 season (Levy's last two years). He had an aging team that was just trying to hold on. Not to mention that no coach does well if his front office isn't giving him talented players. That is not on the coach if the talent of the roster has been depleted.

 

And last point, you mention three coaches: Parcells, Johnson, and Gibbs (the coaches we lost the SBs to). And while Johnson does have a superior record against Marv (besides the two SBs, JJ was lucky to move into the AFC East as the Bills team was on the decline 1996 and 1997), it might surprise you that overall head-to-head, Marv held his own.

 

Marv has an 8-5 record over Parcells for their careers and they have the same overall playoff record at 11-8 or .579 win %, Bill made 3 SBs in 19 years, Marv made 4 SBs in 17 years. If Norwood's kick went through, Parcells would be 1-2 in Super Bowls and Levy 1-3. Pretty similar careers (outside of Bill's two SB wins).

 

Marv went 2-3 against Gibbs all-time (Joe made 4 Super Bowls in 16 years---same as Marv, but obviously Gibbs won 3 of them)

 

Marv was only 2-5 vs. Jimmy Johnson (Yet Marv did have a better overall winning % than Johnson: .579 to .556, and three of Johnson's wins came against a fading Buffalo team as mentioned above).

 

And not to mention that Marv is one of only two coaches to have a winning record against the winningest coach of all-time (Don Shula). Marv had a 17-6 record against Shula.

 

And let's face it, almost every team that gets to a Super Bowl has "special" talent. These coaches aren't winning SBs with JAGs. Are you telling me that that Dallas team of 92-93 wasn't special talent? You can't have it two ways. We should have won because we had special talent kind of infers that the guys that did win didn't have special talent themselves.

 

There is no way that Bills team of the 90s would have made 4 Super Bowls without Marv's leadership. They would have collapsed and self-imploded with all of those egos, they wouldn't have had the perseverance they did, etc. It is like talking about QBs, there are intangibles that don't show up on the stat sheet or in the win column. The way he brought those guys together and kept them going through all of the adversity, nay-saying, animosity towards the team (by the 3rd and 4th SB), etc. just can't be measured, but was integral in making that team who they were. 

 

Bills fans should give Marv the respect he deserves as an All-time great coach.

 

 

 

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, folz said:

 

Sorry to go somewhat off-topic here, but this is such a bad take that gets repeated by so many posters/Bills fans.

 

Marv Levy was an excellent coach and well deserving of his HOF induction.

 

You do realize that when he was hired by the Kansas City Chiefs in 1978, they were by far the worst team in the NFL. They were coming off of a 2-12 record, had very little talent, and just before the 1978 season started, their two best defensive players decided to retire. And despite that---and having nobody QBs such as Tony Woods, Steve Fuller, and Tom Clements---the team improved each year under Levy's watch. He took them from a 2-12 team to a 9-7 team in 4 years. Not outstanding, but you have to remember this was pre-free agency, so it took teams a lot longer to turn things around and a lot of that depended on how good the front office was and how committed to winning the owner was. The year after he left, they reverted back down to 6 wins.

 

Not to mention that in 5 years in the CFL, he took the Montreal Allouttes to the Grey Cup 3 times, winning two Championships, being named coach of the year in 1974, and was later inducted into their HOF as well.

 

He also won a Championship with the Coe College Men's basketball team and in two years as head football coach at the University of New Mexico, turned that program around and won Skyline Coach of the Year. In his 5 years at William & Mary, he won Southern Conference Coach of the year twice. And twice in the NFL (1988 and 1993) he won NFL Coach of the Year.

 

So, NFL Coach of the year twice, CFL coach of the year, Skyline Coach of the year, two-time Southern Conference coach of the year. You don't get those accolades from multiple places if you aren't really good or by just getting lucky with talent.

 

And, of course, the 4 Super Bowl appearances. Many NFL coaches never even make one Suer Bowl, and many very-talented teams never make a SB, let alone have the tenacity, character, and perseverance to make 4 in a row (despite the loses). How many football coaches have taken their teams to 7 Championship games? Even though he only won 2 of them, you have to be a damn good coach to take that many teams to the final game of the season.

 

And to say he reverted to a .500 coach when Polian left is also a bit misleading. First of all his record after Polian left was 45-35 (56.25%). The team had three of five winning seasons and three playoff appearances. But, you are also not taking into account the aging of players, etc. For example, Jim Kelly was a shell of himself in the 1996 season and was retired for the 1997 season (Levy's last two years). He had an aging team that was just trying to hold on. Not to mention that no coach does well if his front office isn't giving him talented players. That is not on the coach if the talent of the roster has been depleted.

 

And last point, you mention three coaches: Parcells, Johnson, and Gibbs (the coaches we lost the SBs to). And while Johnson does have a superior record against Marv (besides the two SBs, JJ was lucky to move into the AFC East as the Bills team was on the decline 1996 and 1997), it might surprise you that overall head-to-head, Marv held his own.

 

Marv has an 8-5 record over Parcells for their careers and they have the same overall playoff record at 11-8 or .579 win %, Bill made 3 SBs in 19 years, Marv made 4 SBs in 17 years. If Norwood's kick went through, Parcells would be 1-2 in Super Bowls and Levy 1-3. Pretty similar careers (outside of Bill's two SB wins).

 

Marv went 2-3 against Gibbs all-time (Joe made 4 Super Bowls in 16 years---same as Marv, but obviously Gibbs won 3 of them)

 

Marv was only 2-5 vs. Jimmy Johnson (Yet Marv did have a better overall winning % than Johnson: .579 to .556, and three of Johnson's wins came against a fading Buffalo team as mentioned above).

 

And not to mention that Marv is one of only two coaches to have a winning record against the winningest coach of all-time (Don Shula). Marv had a 17-6 record against Shula.

 

And let's face it, almost every team that gets to a Super Bowl has "special" talent. These coaches aren't winning SBs with JAGs. Are you telling me that that Dallas team of 92-93 wasn't special talent? You can't have it two ways. We should have won because we had special talent kind of infers that the guys that did win didn't have special talent themselves.

 

There is no way that Bills team of the 90s would have made 4 Super Bowls without Marv's leadership. They would have collapsed and self-imploded with all of those egos, they wouldn't have had the perseverance they did, etc. It is like talking about QBs, there are intangibles that don't show up on the stat sheet or in the win column. The way he brought those guys together and kept them going through all of the adversity, nay-saying, animosity towards the team (by the 3rd and 4th SB), etc. just can't be measured, but was integral in making that team who they were. 

 

Bills fans should give Marv the respect he deserves as an All-time great coach.

 

We'll simply have to disagree.  

 

BTW, you forgot Marv's pop-warner accolades in there.   

 

 

[newcam2012]

 

About 1.30 seconds in Colin gives his opinion on the Bills, McD, Beane, and the identity of the Bills.

 

Have to say his thoughts seem fairly accurate. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by newcam2012

[GunnerBill]

There is some truth to it but equally.... there are some bits that he is just wrong about. 

 

1. The Bills have been constantly rebuilding their defensive line. And with expensive pieces too. That has never been nailed and that is on Brandon Beane. Way too many misses.

 

2. I don't think the Bills have lacked identity for 7 years. They have lacked it since about the middle of last season, especially on offense. 

 

3. Beane's comments are in the context of losing some pieces and that cannot be overlooked. No team has more cap dollars on IR than the Bills. 

 

4. Kyle Shanhan's teams are decidedly not "smart situationally." In fact as is under discussion elsewhere they are 1-31 when trailing by 3 in the 4th. What Kyle Shanhan's team are is a playground bully who will pummel you for 3 quarters. But if you can be fast and keep moving and avoiding the big hits and get San Francisco into the 4th? You can beat them. And actually his offense's identity since losing two all pros has been scoring 17 points per game.

 

 

What he is right about:

 

1. When you have Josh Allen the bar is Championships. 

 

2. The Bills have had more continuity generally than some of those other teams (I am not sold that is actually a good thing). 

 

3. Sean McDermott has had 7 year and that in the modern NFL is a long time with one championship game appearance. The clock is ticking. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Coldfronts]

A fast tempo offense identity?

Edited November 3, 2023 by Coldfronts

[Matt_In_NH]

Jets 49ers, Eagles all have more success and are in a better postion than the Bills because this clown thinks they have an identity?  The 49ers and Eagles dont have playoff flameouts?  This is taking something Beane said out of context but that is what these clowns do.  The one thing I do agree with is when he said the standard with Josh Allen is Super Bowl's.  At this point there is only one thing this team can do to shut these guys up.  Meanwhile the Jets can miss the playoffs and get spoken about like they are doing it all right.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

There is some truth to it but equally.... there are some bits that he is just wrong about. 

 

1. The Bills have been constantly rebuilding their defensive line. And with expensive pieces too. That has never been nailed and that is on Brandon Beane. Way too many misses.

 

2. I don't think the Bills have lacked identity for 7 years. They have lacked it since about the middle of last season, especially on offense. 

 

3. Beane's comments are in the context of losing some pieces and that cannot be overlooked. No team has more cap dollars on IR than the Bills. 

 

4. Kyle Shanhan's teams are decidedly not "smart situationally." In fact as is under discussion elsewhere they are 1-31 when trailing by 3 in the 4th. What Kyle Shanhan's team are is a playground bully who will pummel you for 3 quarters. But if you can be fast and keep moving and avoiding the big hits and get San Francisco into the 4th? You can beat them. And actually his offense's identity since losing two all pros has been scoring 17 points per game.

 

 

What he is right about:

 

1. When you have Josh Allen the bar is Championships. 

 

2. The Bills have had more continuity generally than some of those other teams (I am not sold that is actually a good thing). 

 

3. Sean McDermott has had 7 year and that in the modern NFL is a long time with one championship game appearance. The clock is ticking. 

Let me try to interject on some of your points. First off, very well thought out response. 

 

Your wrong points: 

 

#1. I think that's more of a right for Colin then a wrong. It's probably more accurate if he called out the Bills attempts to rebuild and woefully missed. Also, I believe he compared the rebuilding process to a KC team who retooled their WR and solidified their oline very quickly. He's not wrong here.

 

#2. I think his use of the word "identity" is too shallow and doesn't paint an accurate picture. He did go on the specifically say the Bills were way to dependent on Josh. That's been a knock on the Bills for years. Quite similar to a Carolina team lead by a QB named Cam Newton. In essence the identity is Josh Allen has to be Superman. 

 

#3. I think Colin twisted Beane's wording to fit his narrative. He took what he said out of context. Agree with what you stated.

 

#4. Kyle S get a lot of praise and media attention . He's a very good coach but he reminds me of a bridesmaid. He hadn't gotten his team over the top either. Feels like he gets a pass because he doesn't have a franchise QB. He's very good but slightly overrated in my eyes. With that said, if trade him for McD tomorrow. 

 

Right points:

 

#1. Spot on. Time keeps ticking with too many wasted opportunities. Makes me wonder if Josh would ever consider moving on to another team. That though makes my stomach uneasy 

 

#2. Interesting perspective. That requires a lot of dissection..

 

#3. McD seat is likely to get hotter and hotter. I think it's overdue that some are finally questioning the coach. Colin  appropriately questioning him is a good thing. 

[CSBill]

Oh well, remember, it's all about getting people like us to react. He succeeded. He overreacts to one comment and is slightly right but more wrong (or uninformed) than right.

 

He has a running narrative about the Bills and uses any tidbit he can to support it. He pulls this comment out of context to do just that.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

Let me try to interject on some of your points. First off, very well thought out response. 

 

Your wrong points: 

 

#1. I think that's more of a right for Colin then a wrong. It's probably more accurate if he called out the Bills attempts to rebuild and woefully missed. Also, I believe he compared the rebuilding process to a KC team who retooled their WR and solidified their oline very quickly. He's not wrong here.

 

#2. I think his use of the word "identity" is too shallow and doesn't paint an accurate picture. He did go on the specifically say the Bills were way to dependent on Josh. That's been a knock on the Bills for years. Quite similar to a Carolina team lead by a QB named Cam Newton. In essence the identity is Josh Allen has to be Superman. 

 

#3. I think Colin twisted Beane's wording to fit his narrative. He took what he said out of context. Agree with what you stated.

 

#4. Kyle S get a lot of praise and media attention . He's a very good coach but he reminds me of a bridesmaid. He hadn't gotten his team over the top either. Feels like he gets a pass because he doesn't have a franchise QB. He's very good but slightly overrated in my eyes. With that said, if trade him for McD tomorrow. 

 

Right points:

 

#1. Spot on. Time keeps ticking with too many wasted opportunities. Makes me wonder if Josh would ever consider moving on to another team. That though makes my stomach uneasy 

 

#2. Interesting perspective. That requires a lot of dissection..

 

#3. McD seat is likely to get hotter and hotter. I think it's overdue that some are finally questioning the coach. Colin  appropriately questioning him is a good thing. 

 

KC retooled their WR room? Did they? They have the worst receivers in the league. KC did a good job rebuilding their secondary and their offensive line. But their wide receivers are atrocious. They had Juju as a one year sticking plaster. I don't call thar retooling. Not at all.

[newcam2012]

2 minutes ago, CSBill said:

Oh well, remember, it's all about getting people like us to react. He succeeded. He overreacts to one comment and is slightly right but more wrong (or uninformed) than right.

 

He has a running narrative about the Bills and uses any tidbit he can to support it. He pulls this comment out of context to do just that.

I agree but he did hit some very key points that shouldn't be overlooked with his other noisy points. 

[newcam2012]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

KC retooled their WR room? Did they? They have the worst receivers in the league. KC did a good job rebuilding their secondary and their offensive line. But their wide receivers are atrocious. They had Juju as a one year sticking plaster. I don't call thar retooling. Not at all.

You are right. Let me clarify what I meant. They lost the best WR in the league to Miami. So many thought their offense would really suffer. If memory serves me right, their offense wasn't great early to mid season. Come playoff time that offense was almost unstoppable despite a weaker WR core. The didn't miss a great and win the Superbowl. Beat down a dominate Eagle defense. Maybe they don't need to retool?

 

So you can slander the KC WRs or call it whatever you wish. Poor, poor retooling, terrible, etc...KC didn't miss a beat come playoff time. 

 

Fast forward to this year. Looks awfully similar to last year. The rookie WR Rice is going to be a problem for opposing defenses. 

 

It's pretty hard to slam the KC process because they win and win Superbowls. 

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

KC retooled their WR room? Did they? They have the worst receivers in the league. KC did a good job rebuilding their secondary and their offensive line. But their wide receivers are atrocious. They had Juju as a one year sticking plaster. I don't call thar retooling. Not at all.

I call it winning. Whatever they did worked. 

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

There is some truth to it but equally.... there are some bits that he is just wrong about. 

 

1. The Bills have been constantly rebuilding their defensive line. And with expensive pieces too. That has never been nailed and that is on Brandon Beane. Way too many misses.

 

Correct me if I am misquoting you but many times you have posted that Beane and McDermott have  "equal say" wrt personnel. Once you even said that you think that McDermott could override Beane (a comment with which I fully agree).  

 

Given this, why is it suddenly "on Brandon Beane?" It would seem that you are absolving McDermott from any blame, whereas imo he deserves the majority of it.

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

You are right. Let me clarify what I meant. They lost the best WR in the league to Miami. So many thought their offense would really suffer. If memory serves me right, their offense wasn't great early to mid season. Come playoff time that offense was almost unstoppable despite a weaker WR core. The didn't miss a great and win the Superbowl. Beat down a dominate Eagle defense. Maybe they don't need to retool?

 

So you can slander the KC WRs or call it whatever you wish. Poor, poor retooling, terrible, etc...KC didn't miss a beat come playoff time. 

 

Fast forward to this year. Looks awfully similar to last year. The rookie WR Rice is going to be a problem for opposing defenses. 

 

It's pretty hard to slam the KC process because they win and win Superbowls. 

I call it winning. Whatever they did worked. 

 

In the Superbowl Kelce had 81 yards. Juju had 53. The rest of their receivers had 27 between them. They didn't retool effectively in that unit. 

 

I quite like Rice too, did at draft time, but he is still developing and isn't a #1 WR in any event. The others are not good. Not good at all. 

27 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Correct me if I am misquoting you but many times you have posted that Beane and McDermott have  "equal say" wrt personnel. Once you even said that you think that McDermott could override Beane (a comment with which I fully agree).  

 

Given this, why is it suddenly "on Brandon Beane?" It would seem that you are absolving McDermott from any blame, whereas imo he deserves the majority of it.

 

No I don't think they have equal say on personnel. Brandon Beane runs personnel. That is what happens. I know you don't like it, but it's the truth. 

 

Yes, I believe McDermott could override theoretically. He has more power in the organisation. But he doesn't. It isn't in practice how the Bills operate accorinding to people who have been in those rooms. Blame for the endless wasted cap dollars on the Dline belongs to Brandon Beane.

[BritBill]

I saw a stat the other day which stated Andy Reid while as a HC has coached 140 WRs and only 4 of them have had 1000 yard seasons. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BritBill said:

I saw a stat the other day which stated Andy Reid while as a HC has coached 140 WRs and only 4 of them have had 1000 yard seasons. 

 

DJax, TO, Hill and Maclin?

[May Day 10]

A lot of what he says is a good perspective.

 

 

But he essentially takes something beane says and bends it out of context for the segment.

[Dan Darragh]

Until Sean owns 13 seconds, he'll never have the full confidence of the fans.  I wonder if he has the same problem with the players.

 

Time for some transparency and some accountability.