Random talking head says something about the Bills

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Casey D said:

The problem is that there is only three hours of football a week per team.  And all the rest is time to psychoanalyze.  All this naval gazing is nice and it fills time, but at bottom it means absolutely nothing.  Everyone has an opinion, and in 2023 everyone now has their own facts too. 

Facts? We don’t need no stinking facts… 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

There is some truth to it but equally.... there are some bits that he is just wrong about. 

 

1. The Bills have been constantly rebuilding their defensive line. And with expensive pieces too. That has never been nailed and that is on Brandon Beane. Way too many misses.

 

2. I don't think the Bills have lacked identity for 7 years. They have lacked it since about the middle of last season, especially on offense. 

 

3. Beane's comments are in the context of losing some pieces and that cannot be overlooked. No team has more cap dollars on IR than the Bills. 

 

4. Kyle Shanhan's teams are decidedly not "smart situationally." In fact as is under discussion elsewhere they are 1-31 when trailing by 3 in the 4th. What Kyle Shanhan's team are is a playground bully who will pummel you for 3 quarters. But if you can be fast and keep moving and avoiding the big hits and get San Francisco into the 4th? You can beat them. And actually his offense's identity since losing two all pros has been scoring 17 points per game.

 

 

What he is right about:

 

1. When you have Josh Allen the bar is Championships. 

 

2. The Bills have had more continuity generally than some of those other teams (I am not sold that is actually a good thing). 

 

3. Sean McDermott has had 7 year and that in the modern NFL is a long time with one championship game appearance. The clock is ticking. 

 

 

 

The Bills identity as a team is Josh Allen running around and making plays and the defense limiting big plays, getting leads and making plays in the pass game(as it has always been since McD got there).   

 

Unfortunately they haven't put enough weapons around Allen to develop a different identity on offense.    That's all it comes down to.

 

Philly and SF and Miami seem to have more obvious, sustainable offensive identities in great part because they went to great lengths to put the players around the QB and do it in short order so they are all in their primes.  (Whether any of their QB's are good enough is a different story)

 

 

[Bill from NYC]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I don't think they have equal say on personnel. Brandon Beane runs personnel. That is what happens. I know you don't like it, but it's the truth. 

 

Yes, I believe McDermott could override theoretically. He has more power in the organisation. But he doesn't. It isn't in practice how the Bills operate accorinding to people who have been in those rooms. Blame for the endless wasted cap dollars on the Dline belongs to Brandon Beane.

Well, when the pick for Mahomes was traded away (for a sub-par return imo) and a cornerback was drafted , Beane wasn't there. It was a portend of things to come.

 

The following season (2018) they traded up to take Tremaine Edwards in round 0ne. It took @BADOLBILZ4 or 5 years to convince most of this board that he was not worth re-signing. In 2019 they used a #9 on DT Ed Oliver.  In 2020 and 2021, both of their top draft selections (a 1st and a 2nd) were used on defensive players. In 2022, they of course traded UP once again for CB Elam. Wonderful.

 

McDermott started this trend of idiocy. We have a QB with generational talent and continued to use our best draft picks for defense, this in a now clearly  offense oriented NFL. McDermott is the defense oriented coach. And when his resource filled defense failed in the clutch he was able to blame and fire Frazier.

 

Beane seems to be much more of an administrator than a football man. McDermott is certainly the man behind the curtain.

 

That said, I truly do appreciate your posts, especially wrt the draft. You are a HUGE asset to TBD imo. There is zero hostility in this post. It's just that I have repeatedly tried and just keep failing to understand how you can possibly blame Beane more than McDermott. 

 

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/teams/bills

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Bill from NYC

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Well, when the pick for Mahomes was taded away (for a sub-par return imo) and a cornerback was drafted , Beane wasn't there. It was a portend of things to come.

 

The following season (2018) they traded up to take Tremaine Edwards in round 0ne. It took @BADOLBILZ4 or 5 years to convince most of this board that he was not worth re-signing. In 2019 the used a #9 on DT Ed Oliver.  In 2020 and 2021, both of their top draft selections (a 1st and a 2nd) were used on defensive players. In 2022, they of course traded UP once again for CB Elam. Wonderful.

 

McDermott started this trend of idiocy. We have a QB with generational talent and continued to use our best draft picks for defense, this in a now clearly  offense oriented NFL. McDermott is the defense oriented coach. And when his resource filled defense failed in the clutch he was able to blame and fire Frazier.

 

Beane seems to be much more of an administrator than a football man. McDermott is certainly the man behind the curtain.

 

That said, I truly do appreciate your posts, especially wrt the draft. You are a HUGE asset to TBD imo. There is zero hostility in this post. It's just that I have repeatedly tried and just keep failing to understand how you can possibly blame Beane more than McDermott. 

 

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/teams/bills

 

 

 

Because Beane is in charge of personnel (with the obvious exception of when he was here in 2017) and I think personnel has been our biggest flaw. Beyond 13 seconds. That was a coaching flaw. And was on McDermott.

 

Your argument is "they have drafted too much defense so that MUST be McDermott's doing." It isn't. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

57 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

These ‘analysts’ look at just our schedule and conclude it’s tough.  But a lot of teams have a lot of tough games left so they completely lose the context.  Not to mention if Miami has the division locked up week 18 they probably will be resting starters most of the game.  

 

My guess is 11-5 miami and buffalo 10-6 for the division.  Miami has NYJx2 (I guessed 1 loss of the two), KC, Dallas or Baltimore.  That would put them at 11-5 going into week 18. 

 

Buffalo has @Cincy, @Philly, @KC, Dallas Home.  I don't expect they lose all 4 of these games, but the above scenario would have buffalo winning 1 of these 4.  I think they beat denver home, NY home, LA on the road, NE home.  

Looks to me like the playoff teams look like this in some order

 

AFCE - Miami and Buffalo - Jets could be sneaky 9-8 or something but i see them fading like last year.

 

AFCN - Baltimore seems to be the best team here so far.  Pittsburgh will fade with limited offense, Cleveland likely will as well.  Hard to string W's together without scoring points.  Cincy seems to be the hot choice but their schedule is a load - Bills, @ ravens, @jaguars, @chiefs - plus another game against the browns, 2 vs. pittsburgh.  There's like no way they're running through that schedule without a couple L's.  Between the in-division stuff, I'd say 1 team comes out of this division. 

 

AFCS - Jaguars and likely no wildcards because these teams are all flawed in some way. 

 

AFCW - KC is the best team here.  Chargers are my last-in wildcard pick.  Schedule has broncosx2, LVR, NE, the jets, the packers.  Just winning the games they should win there would get them to 9 wins.  Sneak in a W over detroit, baltimore, buffalo or KC would get them to 10 too.  

[Bobby Hooks]

On 9/8/2023 at 9:56 PM, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Bills went from the golden child to the step child to these analysts. 47 wins in 4 years and 3 straight AFCE titles. I can understand the skepticism about winning in the post-season, but you’re crazy if u don’t think they get there at all. Monday can’t come soon enough. 

I think that’s a big part of it. They all picked the Bills to win it all and when they didn’t, they were all proven wrong. Now they want nothing to do with them. 
 

I do get that though. They spend a few years singing their praises week after week and they fall short in the end. It causes a little burn-out. Heck, even I found myself a little disenchanted with the Bills and they’re my team. 
 

Could you imagine not being a fan? It’s gotta be like, okay, here they are again playing well in the regular season, and this year we’re not even playing all that well. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

11 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

My guess is 11-5 miami and buffalo 10-6 for the division.  Miami has NYJx2 (I guessed 1 loss of the two), KC, Dallas or Baltimore.  That would put them at 11-5 going into week 18. 

 

Buffalo has @Cincy, @Philly, @KC, Dallas Home.  I don't expect they lose all 4 of these games, but the above scenario would have buffalo winning 1 of these 4.  I think they beat denver home, NY home, LA on the road, NE home.  

 

 

Why would we not beat Miami again?!?! It's not in the 100 degree heat of September... by then we'll have Douglas firmly entrenched.

Edited November 3, 2023 by EasternOHBillsFan

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The Bills identity as a team is Josh Allen running around and making plays and the defense limiting big plays, getting leads and making plays in the pass game(as it has always been since McD got there).   

 

Unfortunately they haven't put enough weapons around Allen to develop a different identity on offense.    That's all it comes down to.

 

Philly and SF and Miami seem to have more obvious, sustainable offensive identities in great part because they went to great lengths to put the players around the QB and do it in short order so they are all in their primes.  (Whether any of their QB's are good enough is a different story)

 

 

 

They have definitely had an identity on defense that pre-dates Josh's emergence as a good NFL QB in 2019 let alone elite NFL QB in 2020. And that has been to keep the game infront of them, don't give up the big play, force the ball short, rally and tackle. 

 

Agree that since Josh emerged their offense has always had an element of backyard ball about it and agree it is primarily because they haven't put enough pieces around him - either up front or in the passing game. But there was some identity to the 2020 offense which beat defenders with design - crossers, rubs, combination routes - that put teams who were primarily trying to play some man against us into a bind. Then everyone went to zone, the 2 deep safety look against us, and they seemed less clear how to attack that. This year actually they have been fine attacking that but have struggled against man. 

[BearNorth]

In 2023, Josh has a higher cap hit than Hurts, Tua, and Purdy combined.

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

KC retooled their WR room? Did they? They have the worst receivers in the league. KC did a good job rebuilding their secondary and their offensive line. But their wide receivers are atrocious. They had Juju as a one year sticking plaster. I don't call thar retooling. Not at all.

You are confusing retooled with successfully retooled.  Just because the retooling/rebuild of the WR has yet to be successful doesn’t mean they haven’t been reftooling/rebuilding it.  
 

They have absolutely retooled the WR room, it’s just not worked out yet and been an unsuccessful retooling so far.  I mean they spent relevant draft picks on multiple WRs and traded for WRs too.  
 

But those trades for guys like Toney, drafting Moore, Rice, etc have not yet panned out into a successful rebuild, but it’s still an attempt at a rebuild.  
 

Although I do think they have a good one in Rice who is developing into their best WR right now and has the potential to be a long term piece for them.  

[LabattBlue]

24 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Well, when the pick for Mahomes was taded away (for a sub-par return imo) and a cornerback was drafted , Beane wasn't there. It was a portend of things to come.

 

The following season (2018) they traded up to take Tremaine Edwards in round 0ne. It took @BADOLBILZ4 or 5 years to convince most of this board that he was not worth re-signing. In 2019 they used a #9 on DT Ed Oliver.  In 2020 and 2021, both of their top draft selections (a 1st and a 2nd) were used on defensive players. In 2022, they of course traded UP once again for CB Elam. Wonderful.

 

McDermott started this trend of idiocy. We have a QB with generational talent and continued to use our best draft picks for defense, this in a now clearly  offense oriented NFL. McDermott is the defense oriented coach. And when his resource filled defense failed in the clutch he was able to blame and fire Frazier.

 

Beane seems to be much more of an administrator than a football man. McDermott is certainly the man behind the curtain.

 

That said, I truly do appreciate your posts, especially wrt the draft. You are a HUGE asset to TBD imo. There is zero hostility in this post. It's just that I have repeatedly tried and just keep failing to understand how you can possibly blame Beane more than McDermott. 

 

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/teams/bills

 

 

Beautiful!  👍🏻

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They have definitely had an identity on defense that pre-dates Josh's emergence as a good NFL QB in 2019 let alone elite NFL QB in 2020. And that has been to keep the game infront of them, don't give up the big play, force the ball short, rally and tackle. 

 

Agree that since Josh emerged their offense has always had an element of backyard ball about it and agree it is primarily because they haven't put enough pieces around him - either up front or in the passing game. But there was some identity to the 2020 offense which beat defenders with design - crossers, rubs, combination routes - that put teams who were primarily trying to play some man against us into a bind. Then everyone went to zone, the 2 deep safety look against us, and they seemed less clear how to attack that. This year actually they have been fine attacking that but have struggled against man. 

 

Agreed on the defense.   They aren't an exceptionally physical unit so people confuse that with a lack of identity but they have an identity.

 

But I would say that the 2020 offensive identity was about the players and it didn't even last that full season.

 

They had arguably the top receiving unit in the NFL early in that season when John Brown was still healthy and Beasley was at his peak(and Davis sneaking past defense's as the extra option).    By the end of that season.......due to the erosion of WR talent due to injury.........that identity was already gone.    

 

Yeah defense's have adjusted and the league started calling holding penalties on OL again in 2021 etc.. but their overall WR corps has just simply gotten worse each successive season.    

 

And since the league is so deep at WR now..........defense's are playing a lot more zone and 2 deep safety IN GENERAL.........its not just a tactic against a few teams.  

 

The influx of WR talent from the college level from 2017-2018 to now is really unprecedented and the Bills have missed that train.   And what's frustrating about it is that it's not the D line where they need 4 studs and 4 good backups...........they just need ONE other top WR to pair with Diggs and then the Gabe's and Shakir's etc.. will suffice.   Identity re-established.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

28 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Why would we not beat Miami again?!?! It's not in the 100 degree heat of September... by then we'll have Douglas firmly entrenched.

 

It's week 18, i'm saying we might be 1 game back going into that game.  Win would get us the division.  

[BaaadThingsMan]

14 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

In 2023, Josh has a higher cap hit than Hurts, Tua, and Purdy combined.

So what? They were all drafted after him and on their first contracts. Purdy and all his $300k 🤣

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Agreed on the defense.   They aren't an exceptionally physical unit so people confuse that with a lack of identity but they have an identity.

 

But I would say that the 2020 offensive identity was about the players and it didn't even last that full season.

 

They had arguably the top receiving unit in the NFL early in that season when John Brown was still healthy and Beasley was at his peak(and Davis sneaking past defense's as the extra option).    By the end of that season.......due to the erosion of WR talent due to injury.........that identity was already gone.    

 

Yeah defense's have adjusted and the league started calling holding penalties on OL again in 2021 etc.. but their overall WR corps has just simply gotten worse each successive season.    

 

And since the league is so deep at WR now..........defense's are playing a lot more zone and 2 deep safety IN GENERAL.........its not just a tactic against a few teams.  

 

The influx of WR talent from the college level from 2017-2018 to now is really unprecedented and the Bills have missed that train.   And what's frustrating about it is that it's not the D line where they need 4 studs and 4 good backups...........they just need ONE other top WR to pair with Diggs and then the Gabe's and Shakir's etc.. will suffice.   Identity re-established.  

 

Yep. Agree with all of that. As you know I wanted Watson in 2022 and I wanted Addison last year. I like Kincaid and he isn't bad given where things ended up but they still need an upgrade at the #2 spot and ideally someone with down the line #1 potential given Stef's age. 

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

You are confusing retooled with successfully retooled.  Just because the retooling/rebuild of the WR has yet to be successful doesn’t mean they haven’t been reftooling/rebuilding it.  
 

They have absolutely retooled the WR room, it’s just not worked out yet and been an unsuccessful retooling so far.  I mean they spent relevant draft picks on multiple WRs and traded for WRs too.  
 

But those trades for guys like Toney, drafting Moore, Rice, etc have not yet panned out into a successful rebuild, but it’s still an attempt at a rebuild.  
 

Although I do think they have a good one in Rice who is developing into their best WR right now and has the potential to be a long term piece for them.  

 

Ha. You are correct. They have retooled. Just very badly. 

 

Agree on Rice as I said to @newcam2012 above. I liked him coming out. Whereas Skyy Moore the year before I always said was overhyped. And Toney is crap.

[mannc]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

There is some truth to it but equally.... there are some bits that he is just wrong about. 

 

1. The Bills have been constantly rebuilding their defensive line. And with expensive pieces too. That has never been nailed and that is on Brandon Beane. Way too many misses.

 

2. I don't think the Bills have lacked identity for 7 years. They have lacked it since about the middle of last season, especially on offense. 

 

3. Beane's comments are in the context of losing some pieces and that cannot be overlooked. No team has more cap dollars on IR than the Bills. 

 

4. Kyle Shanhan's teams are decidedly not "smart situationally." In fact as is under discussion elsewhere they are 1-31 when trailing by 3 in the 4th. What Kyle Shanhan's team are is a playground bully who will pummel you for 3 quarters. But if you can be fast and keep moving and avoiding the big hits and get San Francisco into the 4th? You can beat them. And actually his offense's identity since losing two all pros has been scoring 17 points per game.

 

 

What he is right about:

 

1. When you have Josh Allen the bar is Championships. 

 

2. The Bills have had more continuity generally than some of those other teams (I am not sold that is actually a good thing). 

 

3. Sean McDermott has had 7 year and that in the modern NFL is a long time with one championship game appearance. The clock is ticking. 

Totally agree.  The identity argument is a little silly.  But seven years in (six with Josh Allen) and one AFC championship game is totally unacceptable. I doubt any team has had more continuity over the past six years…it needs to translate into Super Bowls or else it’s time to re-set the table while Josh Allen is still in his prime.

[Paup 1995MVP]

22 minutes ago, mannc said:

Totally agree.  The identity argument is a little silly.  But seven years in (six with Josh Allen) and one AFC championship game is totally unacceptable. I doubt any team has had more continuity over the past six years…it needs to translate into Super Bowls or else it’s time to re-set the table while Josh Allen is still in his prime.

The offense looked a lot better in the first 3 qtrs last week because we were getting other players involved.  Namely Shakir, Kincaid and Davis.  All 3 can make plays if we use them correctly.  The 5-8 yard routes we mostly run where the receiver is stationary when catching the ball make it very difficult for any yards after the catch.  Hit guys on the move with passes as we did w all 3 last week especially with Shakir and Kincaid and good things will happen on offense.  And the same goes for Diggs.  Throwing 5-8 yard turn ins where he is stationary looking at Allen when he catches the ball doesn't do much.  The DB just comes in and tackles him.  Diggs is a big time talent.  Hit him running vertically or running deep crosses where he can use his speed and elusiveness after the catch.  And the offense has much more big play potential. 

 

One other issue.  Dawson Knox.  He is just talented enough to be playing a lot other than in the red zone.  Guy has lousy hands, and very limited mobility.  I think he bogs down the offense.  And Josh for some reason looks for him far too much when he is on the field.  Inside the 10?  Fine he can be helpful in the end zone because of his decent size.  But Kincaid is light years better as an overall receiver.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

It's week 18, i'm saying we might be 1 game back going into that game.  Win would get us the division.  

Ahh, got it! Thanks!

[ProcessTruster]

On 9/8/2023 at 10:51 PM, Stenbar said:

Who cares what anyone writes or voices their opinion about a team. They are always just spoutin off their opinion. Let it play out and enjoy the ride or hate it.  Who gives a crap. You still have to work on Monday or Tuesday, if they suck turn it off and dont waste your time, if they run it, then enjoy it. 

I know I've said this in the past, but after 20 years of suck ,  I truly am still wallowing up to my neck in "this team can compete with any team, anywhere, anytime"-  hate to see an L vs a W of course, but man this group competes their butts off

 

And Beane makes moves that will keep the team highly competitive for years.   Sit back and watch it happen.   and Trust the Process.