Chiefs vs Lions NFL Opener

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

101 pages….. LOL.  Sheesh get a grip guys and gals!!   It’s the chefs and lion for crying out loud!

Whaddya mean?

It was the first game of the season, and it's the only thing to talk about.  

 

It's also the Chiefs, and a loss by the Chiefs is important.   And it was an opportunity to see what this year's version of the Chiefs look like, because before too long the Bills will be in that stadium trying to beat them.

 

Certainly worth talking about, whether you're interested or not. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, BillsDad51 said:

Goff threw for 250 last night but Lions offense didn't look as good as it did last year. Was it Chiefs' defense? Or is Goff regressing back to his old form?

 

When people say things like "his old form" about Goff what do they mean? His rookie year? 'Cos that year he was legitimately bad. Otherwise he has been a kinda league average Quarterback most years. Yet there seems to follow him a suspicion that he is really bad. He is pretty consistent. In the 90s passer rating, mid 60s % percentage, pretty consistent yards per attempt. 

 

I think their issues in the passing are more their receivers than any limitations Goff has (although clearly he has them). 

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

But you're taking a greater risk of him not having the ball by going for it and losing a time stop with the two minute warning. 4th and 25 is a ridiculous play to convert, you don't even have Tyreke Hill to run circles around people anymore. What are you going to do throw it deep and pray for PI call?

I don't think it matters.  Plus, you probably lose the two minute warning any way.   Punt plays take six or seven seconds when you figure the time to get the ball to the punter, hang time, and return.  In that situation, Lions probably don't catch the punt, but let it bounce.  Unless the Chiefs are really lucky, or succeed in punting out of bounds, the clock is going to run to the two minute warning.   Which is what it did anyway.   

 

All of those things are possible.  But if I have Mahomes or Allen or Lebron or Steph Curry, I want to give him another touch. 

[starrymessenger]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I didn't ignore it.  I mentioned it.  It's a risk.  But at that point in the game, you have to take risks somewhere.   I just think that if you have a Patrick Mahomes, or a Josh Allen, the difference between giving him five chances with the ball and six chances with the ball is big enough to take the risk.    When you have a guy who can win the game for you, I think your decision making has to be skewed in the direction of giving him the ball as often as you can, and the risk be damned. 

I wonder if EB would have called the game differently. Don't remember him ever taking the ball out of Mahomes hands in crucial game situations. And for what? A poorly executed jet sweep? And I've got to question going for it fourth and 25. Especially with patently underperforming Toney, Moore (who they drafted ahead of George Pickens) and Watson, not to mention a good Lions pass rush.

 

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

When people say things like "his old form" about Goff what do they mean? His rookie year? 'Cos that year he was legitimately bad. Otherwise he has been a kinda league average Quarterback most years. Yet there seems to follow him a suspicion that he is really bad. He is pretty consistent. In the 90s passer rating, mid 60s % percentage, pretty consistent yards per attempt. 

 

I think their issues in the passing are more their receivers than any limitations Goff has (although clearly he has them). 

Yeah, but I think Goff's average, what you can expect from him, is not what he looked like when he went to the Super Bow.   He was a decent QB who had the benefit of a coach who helped him excel.  I think he makes it less likely that his team will be great.   If you want to be consistently great, you need a Mahomes or Allen or Burrows or Rodgers or (name a couple more who are on the cusp).   If Goff wins a Super Bowl, it will happen because he had a career year that came together with a lot of other fortuitous things.   Mahomes already has won two because his average years look like Goff's career year.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I wonder if EB would have called the game differently. Don't remember him ever taking the ball out of Mahomes hands in crucial game situations. And for what? A poorly executed jet sweep? And I've got to question going for it fourth and 25. Especially with patently underperforming Toney, Moore (who they drafted ahead of George Pickens) and Watson, not to mention a good Lions pass rush.

 

It wasn't even a legitimate jet sweep it was that foolishness with mahomes faking timeout while everyone else lines up.

 

One of these days if like to see his fake timeout granted. That'd put a stop to that 

[Low Positive]

8 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I wonder if EB would have called the game differently. Don't remember him ever taking the ball out of Mahomes hands in crucial game situations. And for what? A poorly executed jet sweep? And I've got to question going for it fourth and 25. Especially with patently underperforming Toney, Moore (who they drafted ahead of George Pickens) and Watson, not to mention a good Lions pass rush.

 

AFAIK, EB didn't have any role in calling plays in KC. There is a rather long list of HCs who call the offensive plays 

 

• Chargers
• Rams
• Packers
• Chiefs
• Dolphins
• Bengals
• Panthers
• Eagles
• Vikings

There are probably more.

Edited September 8, 2023 by FrenchConnection
Added minnesota

[gonzo1105]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

When people say things like "his old form" about Goff what do they mean? His rookie year? 'Cos that year he was legitimately bad. Otherwise he has been a kinda league average Quarterback most years. Yet there seems to follow him a suspicion that he is really bad. He is pretty consistent. In the 90s passer rating, mid 60s % percentage, pretty consistent yards per attempt. 

 

I think their issues in the passing are more their receivers than any limitations Goff has (although clearly he has them). 

 

This is exactly correct. Goff is an average NFL QB and if you actually look at the Lions WR's its St. Brown and really a bunch of nobodies. Must have been great coaching last year to have the # 4 overall offense because from a players standpoint it doesnt add up. Williams would be a big spark to them if he didn't gamble but I still don't believe the Chiefs defense is any good and I think even Spags knows it which is why against top level QB's he blitzes 80% of the time hoping for a big play versus letting teams slowly drive on them. 

[Warcodered]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't think it matters.  Plus, you probably lose the two minute warning any way.   Punt plays take six or seven seconds when you figure the time to get the ball to the punter, hang time, and return.  In that situation, Lions probably don't catch the punt, but let it bounce.  Unless the Chiefs are really lucky, or succeed in punting out of bounds, the clock is going to run to the two minute warning.   Which is what it did anyway.   

 

All of those things are possible.  But if I have Mahomes or Allen or Lebron or Steph Curry, I want to give him another touch. 

The way their punter was kicking I wouldn't be surprised if he could put it through the endzone if he wanted, besides that either way you give your defense a shot to make a stop and keep it within a FG so you just have to get in range to win the game with however much time is left. I can't see how going for it on 4th and 25 had better odds than that.

[Albany,n.y.]

https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=136266592892599

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I wonder if EB would have called the game differently. Don't remember him ever taking the ball out of Mahomes hands in crucial game situations. And for what? A poorly executed jet sweep? And I've got to question going for it fourth and 25. Especially with patently underperforming Toney, Moore (who they drafted ahead of George Pickens) and Watson, not to mention a good Lions pass rush.

 

I just think you go for it because you have Mahomes.  

 

They didn't lose the game on that play.  Mahomes didn't play great, but they didn't give him much help.  That's where EB may very well have been missed.  

2 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

AFAIK, EB didn't have any role in calling plays in KC. There is a rather long list of HCs who call the offensive plays 

 

• Chargers
• Rams
• Packers
• Chiefs
• Dolphins
• Bengals
• Panthers
• Eagles

There are probably more.

Yes, but the call sheet that Reid works from is designed by the OC.  

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, but I think Goff's average, what you can expect from him, is not what he looked like when he went to the Super Bow.   He was a decent QB who had the benefit of a coach who helped him excel.  I think he makes it less likely that his team will be great.   If you want to be consistently great, you need a Mahomes or Allen or Burrows or Rodgers or (name a couple more who are on the cusp).   If Goff wins a Super Bowl, it will happen because he had a career year that came together with a lot of other fortuitous things.   Mahomes already has won two because his average years look like Goff's career year.  

 

Goff's Superbowl appearance was his career year, sure. But it wasn't miles away from his median. People act as though there is some massive range in his performances and there really isn't. He is a pretty consistent Quarterback. It is like Matt Ryan had a career year when he made the Superbowl... but it wasn't a million miles off he was otherwise. I think he gets a bit disrespected. People treat him like he is crap. Even compared to guys like Kirk Cousins who is pretty comparable with. 

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Whaddya mean?

It was the first game of the season, and it's the only thing to talk about.  

 

It's also the Chiefs, and a loss by the Chiefs is important.   And it was an opportunity to see what this year's version of the Chiefs look like, because before too long the Bills will be in that stadium trying to beat them.

 

Certainly worth talking about, whether you're interested or not. 

I mean, I personally have little interest in contributing much more than my opinion on the game. 
 

I watched the game.  I thought the refs sucked.  I thought the chiefs WRs sucked.  I think that this game means very little considering the chiefs didn’t have 2 of their 3 elite players on the field.  Imagine us playing this game without Diggs and Von.  We’d lose too, but probably by more than 1 point.  
 

I was happy to see the chiefs play without two studs, one due to injury. More to how lucky the chiefs were last year to be so healthy the majority of the season and the playoffs.  
 

 

[BillsDad51]

24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

When people say things like "his old form" about Goff what do they mean? His rookie year? 'Cos that year he was legitimately bad. Otherwise he has been a kinda league average Quarterback most years. Yet there seems to follow him a suspicion that he is really bad. He is pretty consistent. In the 90s passer rating, mid 60s % percentage, pretty consistent yards per attempt. 

 

I think their issues in the passing are more their receivers than any limitations Goff has (although clearly he has them). 

Good point. I guess I was making a lazy generalization. The Rams traded him for Stafford because they felt they needed someone better to win the Super Bowl. I don't think he is bad. As you say, he's league average. Last year, he played above average. 

Edited September 8, 2023 by BillsDad51
Clarify

[starrymessenger]

8 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

AFAIK, EB didn't have any role in calling plays in KC. There is a rather long list of HCs who call the offensive plays 

 

• Chargers
• Rams
• Packers
• Chiefs
• Dolphins
• Bengals
• Panthers
• Eagles
• Vikings

There are probably more.

Yes I know that Reid is probably the HC best known for calling his own plays, but one would expect that EB had a lot to do with the prep that  goes into the playcalls. The OC change could be something to watch going forward. 

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I mean, I personally have little interest in contributing much more than my opinion on the game. 
 

I watched the game.  I thought the refs sucked.  I thought the chiefs WRs sucked.  I think that this game means very little considering the chiefs didn’t have 2 of their 3 elite players on the field.  Imagine us playing this game without Diggs and Von.  We’d lose too, but probably by more than 1 point.  
 

I was happy to see the chiefs play without two studs, one due to injury. More to how lucky the chiefs were last year to be so healthy the majority of the season and the playoffs.  
 

 

It was only one game and it probably doesn't tell us that much about either team.  The bottom line is, if Toney only drops one ball instead of four, the Chiefs win easily and everyone's talking about what a magician Mahomes is, being able to win without Kelce and without any great WRs.  

[Matt_In_NH]

I wish I could grow hair on my head but that do he has is hideous which I guess matches his hideous face

[Warcodered]

8 minutes ago, mannc said:

It was only one game and it probably doesn't tell us that much about either team.  The bottom line is, if Toney only drops one ball instead of four, the Chiefs win easily and everyone's talking about what a magician Mahomes is, being able to win without Kelce and without any great WRs.  

and if one of those DBs turns around and picks off one of his other bad passes he has an even worse night.

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, mannc said:

It was only one game and it probably doesn't tell us that much about either team.  The bottom line is, if Toney only drops one ball instead of four, the Chiefs win easily and everyone's talking about what a magician Mahomes is, being able to win without Kelce and without any great WRs.  

Agreed.  That’s why I don’t think there’s much to talk about here.  Toney, Taylor and the refs are the only things I find interesting after watching the game and I don’t think it means much, if anything at all.  Mahomes looked pretty good to me, the WRs did not.

 

[TheFunPolice]

What's amazing to me is how mediocre to poor the Chiefs WR are. this year. 

 

It's basically Kelsey and a bunch of practice squad level guys.