Is this Bills team better than the 2020/2021/2022 versions?

[FireChans]

Topic Title.

 

We discuss draft and free agency hits and misses pretty frequently on this board. But the ultimate goal is to be the team last standing.  Over the last 3, now approaching 4 years of clawing at the door, I think this question is important.

 

QB: Equal because Josh rules

 

RB: Potentially best this year with Cook and co. but remains to be seen, the other years were pretty equal.

 

WR: 2020 probably has this group beat, but if Kincaid pops in his WR role, this may be the best year as well

 

OL: Again, 2020 was sneaky a solid OL year, a lot of guys played above their ability, but hopefully 2023 is even better

 

DL: 2022 pre-Von injury, but if Von comes back at his usual level this should be just as good, if not better with Floyd

 

LB: The 2022 had the two best seasons out of Milano/Tremaine in Bills uni's. 2023 takes a big hit this year.

 

CB: 2020 probably has the best CB group by default because Tre was healthy all year. Hopefully Benford outperforms Levi and Tre returns to form

 

S: 2021 probably takes this because Hyde/Poyer were healthy and 2 years younger, but if those old guys can hang on, 2023 should be around that level.

 

STer: We have lost future Bills Wall of Famer Taiwain Jones, but ST doesn't really matter so who cares.

 

What say you.

[ganesh]

What about Coaching?  I think they are going to make the biggest difference to this team.

[Dr.Sack]

They should be just as good, plus I count the additions and I think the roster is as deep and Kincaid & Torrence have All Pro potential. 

[Behindenemylines]

Want to see how the defense is after a good sampling of games.  I predict they will be way more aggressive and hit home giving someone double digit sacks if not two someone’s.  McD trusts we can recover from a few bigger plays but also our secondary will prevent more with more line action 

[bmur66]

Stefon says "They stink" so there you go.

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by bmur66

[Gregg]

7 hours ago, ganesh said:

What about Coaching?  I think they are going to make the biggest difference to this team.

 

I lost faith in McDermott after 13 seconds. He is a good regular season coach, but I don't know if he gets us to the top. To many playoff failures in his history not to mention winless on the road in the playoffs.

[DeltaDigital]

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

I lost faith in McDermott after 13 seconds. He is a good regular season coach, but I don't know if he gets us to the top. To many playoff failures in his history not to mention winless on the road in the playoffs.

Don’t forget the collapse In Houston where the aforementioned Taiwan jones sent us golfing on a 3-13 dump off where we gave 20yard cushions. That’s directly on Clappy McClapperson too. 

[Bob Lamb]

7 hours ago, ganesh said:

What about Coaching?  I think they are going to make the biggest difference to this team.

 

The Bills fatal flaw will be McDermott - he doesn't have the "right" stuff

 

What was that time out for?

[Success]

I've said it a few times - this is the best team of the JA era.  It's the most talented, the deepest and the most balanced.

 

Honestly, it may be the best Bills team of all time.  I don't know if that sounds like sacrilege or hyperbole (or both), but I think it has potential to be.

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Just now, Success said:

I've said it a few times - this is the best team of the JA era.  It's the most talented, the deepest and the most balanced.

 

Honestly, it may be the best Bills team of all time.  I don't know if that sounds like sacrilege or hyperbole (or both), but I think it has potential to be.

 

 

It could be for sure. It's time for the coaching staff to prove themselves.

[NewEra]

I think this is the best team we’ve had to date.  

[Gregg]

3 minutes ago, Success said:

I've said it a few times - this is the best team of the JA era.  It's the most talented, the deepest and the most balanced.

 

Honestly, it may be the best Bills team of all time.  I don't know if that sounds like sacrilege or hyperbole (or both), but I think it has potential to be.

 

 

Before my time but the nod goes to the 64 and 65 Bills simply because they won back-to-back AFL championships. Plus, the early 90's Bills are probably better. Better OL for sure, better overall group of WR's led by Reed and Lofton, much better RB. Defensively I think the 90's Bills were also better led by #78.

[The Jokeman]

I think we're far better than 2022 for sure, 2021 was a magical year in the playoffs minus the 13 seconds, 2020 we were good but defense wasn't great. As to me a healthy Von and Floyd puts us at the best place we can be when comes to pass rush which what we've been lacking for most of the Josh Allen run except during the first half of last season when were world beaters. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Regarding Cook, I am a bit concern with his pass protection and ability to be on the same page with Allen in the passing game. There were a couple instances last year where it seemed Cook was in the wrong spot on his routes. 
 

Those could be two areas where there is a drop off at the position. Hopefully just rookie mistakes but something to keep an eye on. 

[Radar]

Let you know in January😉

[eball]

10 hours ago, FireChans said:

Topic Title.

 

We discuss draft and free agency hits and misses pretty frequently on this board. But the ultimate goal is to be the team last standing.  Over the last 3, now approaching 4 years of clawing at the door, I think this question is important.

 

QB: Equal because Josh rules

 

RB: Potentially best this year with Cook and co. but remains to be seen, the other years were pretty equal.

 

WR: 2020 probably has this group beat, but if Kincaid pops in his WR role, this may be the best year as well

 

OL: Again, 2020 was sneaky a solid OL year, a lot of guys played above their ability, but hopefully 2023 is even better

 

DL: 2022 pre-Von injury, but if Von comes back at his usual level this should be just as good, if not better with Floyd

 

LB: The 2022 had the two best seasons out of Milano/Tremaine in Bills uni's. 2023 takes a big hit this year.

 

CB: 2020 probably has the best CB group by default because Tre was healthy all year. Hopefully Benford outperforms Levi and Tre returns to form

 

S: 2021 probably takes this because Hyde/Poyer were healthy and 2 years younger, but if those old guys can hang on, 2023 should be around that level.

 

STer: We have lost future Bills Wall of Famer Taiwain Jones, but ST doesn't really matter so who cares.

 

What say you.

 

I disagree with nearly all of your assessments.

 

QB is better because Josh is more experienced

RB room is much better

WR room is at least equal to 2020. (Edit:  I'm talking all pass catchers, including TEs)

OL is better on paper

DL is better on paper

LB is unknown but you'd expect it to be a step down from Edmunds

CB is better and deeper

S is better with addition of Rapp, who will play a lot

ST do matter and Bass is a top 5 K.  Martin a very solid punter.  Probably no worse than any other year.

 

I'm solidly on the record that this year's team is the most talented of the McBeane era, and probably the best since 1990.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by eball

[mjd1001]

I think they are just as good as the last 2 seasons.

 

I really think their secondary play may disappoint.  Poyer and Hyde are still Good, but I think we are going to notice they are losing a step or two and are going to miss some plays they made the previous years.

 

The OL I still think is well below average. Maybe slightly upgraded from last year?  Either way not good.

 

But like the NFL as a whole it all comes down the the QB.  If Allen is healthy, he is near or at the top of the list of Best QB's and the Bills will therefore be good.

 

I posted something a while ago but now might be a good time to post it again, regarding Allen's elbow injury:

 

Allen got hurt in that November game against the Jets. As a reminder the Bills played 11 games from then until the end of the year, including 2 playoff games. In those 11 games:

Team was 8W-3L with 26.9 points per game.  Allen completed 60.9% for 2701 yards, 19td, 11ints.

 

For comparison, I looked at the previous 11 games (including 2 playoff games) before the injury (matching the 11 game number to get the best comparison):

Team was 9W-2L with 31.1 points per game. Allen completed 69.4% for 3074 yards, 30td, 6 ints.

 

Oh, and before the injury 3 games against the consensus best team Chiefs, all on the road at Arrowhead, 2 wins and the only loss being the 13 second game.

To me, that is a big difference and many of the problems this team has can be 'solved' with a fully healthy Josh Allen.

 

IF Allen is and stays healthy, they are in the top 4 teams in the league and just as good as any version of this team over the past few years.

Edited September 7, 2023 by mjd1001

[SoonerBillsFan]

10 hours ago, FireChans said:

Topic Title.

 

We discuss draft and free agency hits and misses pretty frequently on this board. But the ultimate goal is to be the team last standing.  Over the last 3, now approaching 4 years of clawing at the door, I think this question is important.

 

QB: Equal because Josh rules

 

RB: Potentially best this year with Cook and co. but remains to be seen, the other years were pretty equal.

 

WR: 2020 probably has this group beat, but if Kincaid pops in his WR role, this may be the best year as well

 

OL: Again, 2020 was sneaky a solid OL year, a lot of guys played above their ability, but hopefully 2023 is even better

 

DL: 2022 pre-Von injury, but if Von comes back at his usual level this should be just as good, if not better with Floyd

 

LB: The 2022 had the two best seasons out of Milano/Tremaine in Bills uni's. 2023 takes a big hit this year.

 

CB: 2020 probably has the best CB group by default because Tre was healthy all year. Hopefully Benford outperforms Levi and Tre returns to form

 

S: 2021 probably takes this because Hyde/Poyer were healthy and 2 years younger, but if those old guys can hang on, 2023 should be around that level.

 

STer: We have lost future Bills Wall of Famer Taiwain Jones, but ST doesn't really matter so who cares.

 

What say you.

We wont know until the end of 2023.  

[FireChans]

8 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I disagree with nearly all of your assessments.

 

QB is better because Josh is more experienced

RB room is much better

WR room is at least equal to 2020

OL is better on paper

DL is better on paper

LB is unknown but you'd expect it to be a step down from Edmunds

CB is better and deeper

S is better with addition of Rapp, who will play a lot

ST do matter and Bass is a top 5 K.  Martin a very solid punter.  Probably no worse than any other year.

 

I'm solidly on the record that this year's team is the most talented of the McBeane era, and probably the best since 1990.

 

Calling the WR room better than 2020 makes no sense to me personally. Diggs/Brown/unwashed Cole/Davis. 
 

Gabe Davis was WR4 in that room!

[eball]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Calling the WR room better than 2020 makes no sense to me personally. Diggs/Brown/unwashed Cole/Davis. 
 

Gabe Davis was WR4 in that room!

 

I said at least equal.  The WR room is deeper now for sure.  Beasley was great, but 2023 Davis is better than 2020 Davis and I guess I'm thinking overall "pass catchers" rather than simply WRs.  Knox and Kincaid tip the scales.