Bernard, Torrence and Benford all officially starters

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

You think this is the likely happen? If so why? 

As I've often said, what I do a lot of time is observe McBeane and try to figure out why they do the things they do.   I, like a lot of people, was puzzled why Beane didn't use assets (either draft picks or money) to get someone who looked like a quality replacement for Edmunds.  I concluded that two things were likely:  1.  That McBeane believe that the position doesn't require top-end talent, and 2. that they already had the guy or guys on the roster that they needed.   That would explain why they waited until the third round to take a linebacker.   

 

So, even though I, like a lot of people, didn't see anything last season that made me have confidence in Bernard or Dodson, I think it's likely that McBeane did see things that gave them that confidence.   

 

Either we're right or McBeane are right.   McBeane are pretty smart guys, and they know a lot more about football than I do, so I think there's actually a good chance that they're right and that Bernard can do what he needs to do in the middle.  

 

And as a lot of people have been saying, Kirksey's been good but never great, he's had injury problems and he's getting older.   So, maybe all that's happened is Dodson lost the competition with Bernard so badly that McBeane decided they needed a better backup than Dodson.  That would mean that Beane didn't sign Kirksey to start; he just wanted a vet backup who is better than Klein, and Kirksey would certainly seem to be that. 

 

What I meant by post was that for these reasons, it's quite possible that Bernard is and will be the starter for the entire season, and not be a liability.  And, as I think about it, Williams may over time be the guy to back up both Milano and Bernard.  

 

Bottom line is that there's a good chance that a lot of people here, including me, have been worrying about what to do at linebacker because we just don't understand football as well as McBeane.

[Max Fischer]

57 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10021397-terrel-bernard-nfl-draft-2022-scouting-report-for-baylor-lb.amp.html

 

 

Lets paint a clear picture here.

 

Thus far, the scouting report looks pretty accurate. 

 

Bernard play light, can't shed blocks well, doesn't fit well into a MLB role, and has shown nothing thus far to think he's a quality starter. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

He was a projected 5th round pick and a project. Beane reached and the pick was a head scratcher then and now. 

 

In short, I get the optimism and of course he could blossom; maybe into the next Lawrence Taylor. Let's dream big!

 

 

It's NOT optimism, it's let's see how he plays a game or two before you call him a bust.  This rush to condemn a player who has a decent pedigree is just so weird.  

[Shaw66]

52 minutes ago, NewEra said:

No, the key point here is that this is a message board and this is what we do here prior to the actual game.  Discuss bills football.  All we can discuss is what we’ve seen to date. What I’VE seen to date is less than what I consider a viable Mike starter in the nfl.  
 

until that changes, that’s how I see it.  I am actively hoping to be wrong.  

That's just not correct.  You can't just dismiss his point of view, and mine, by saying that the only thing we can discuss is what he's done to date.  I, for example, have a completely rational explanation of why Bernard might do just fine.  I just posted it.  The explanation is that amateur analysis of limited play by Bernard last year may simply not be as good as professional analysis by multiple people, many of whom have been doing nothing but analyzing talent and teaching football for 20 years or more.   I actually have a lot of confidence in that point of view, because I don't believe that McBeane would have done nothing about getting high quality linebacker talent if they thought they needed it.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10021397-terrel-bernard-nfl-draft-2022-scouting-report-for-baylor-lb.amp.html

 

 

Lets paint a clear picture here.

 

Thus far, the scouting report looks pretty accurate. 

 

Bernard play light, can't shed blocks well, doesn't fit well into a MLB role, and has shown nothing thus far to think he's a quality starter. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

He was a projected 5th round pick and a project. Beane reached and the pick was a head scratcher then and now. 

 

In short, I get the optimism and of course he could blossom; maybe into the next Lawrence Taylor. Let's dream big!

 

Throw all draft scouting reports away. 
 

We’ll see what happens. The Bills have set themselves up for criticism here. But they were not forced into this situation. They 100% felt they had a starting MLB on the roster. 
 

You have let everything play out. I still remember seeing an interview of Marv Levy talking about having some stud RB from Coe College. I was like who the heck is Fred Jackson. He can’t be serious.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Dane filled in at a really high level when Tre went down. I thought he was a lot better than Wallace. 

Then he started the year allowing something like 48% completion and a wildly low passer rating. Then the wheels just seemed to fall off around halfway through. If Jackson finds his form again I think he can be a legit CB2 in the league. Maybe he has found it, and Benford is just that lights out right now? 

 

Personally I thought heading into camp Elam was going to take that over just with the higher ceiling and he seemed to play well down the stretch and playoffs.  But then Dane just really seemed to have a great camp and was leading the charge and felt like Benford we weren't hearing as much.  

 

But apparently Dane didn't seem to do anything to lose the gig (other than like you said maybe last years tape) in camp, seems Benford just elevated his play and over took the lead down the stretch of preseason.

 

Seems to be a good problem to have, 3 guys who could start for us at CB2.  I still think CB2 "starter" isn't going to dominate snaps like Tre does at CB1 where we will see Elam get on the field in man and press coverages or when they want more speed.  But regardless, feels good to have great depth in the secondary overall

[JMM]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Bills fan base hate a draft pick more than Bernard? Holy smokes.

 

Lol oh, you haven't been around here very long have you?

[newcam2012]

3 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

It's NOT optimism, it's let's see how he plays a game or two before you call him a bust.  This rush to condemn a player who has a decent pedigree is just so weird.  

I'm not calling him a bust. I'm saying what I've seen indicates he is a back up at best. I'm saying he shouldn't be in the starting lineup. I'm saying he is a liability to the defense. I'm saying I see little to nothing that gives me encouragement that the guy is anything but a serviceable back up. I'm saying that Beane reached for this pick. I'm saying the MLB position looks to be a major weakness of the defense. I'm saying I don't like having to go against the Jets with MLB Bernard in the starting unit. 

 

Yes he is young. Yes he could improve. However, what have you seen that indicates this is likely? 

 

The Bills Brass made a calculated hoping one of the MLBs on their current roster would step up. It looks like that didn't happen. Beane as a result picked up a veteran MLB Kirksey. Once he's up to speed he's an upgrade. Not great but serviceable. 

 

Hopefully, this weakness is marginal. I'd rather take my swings with the offense and Allen. It looks like Beane agrees. 

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

I don’t know what the appropriate idiom is here.  Maybe he’s the one-eyed king in the land of the blind.  Maybe he’s the lesser of the evils.  I don’t know.  But it’s clear to me that he did not, by any objective measure, win the MLB competition.  Dodson, Klein, and Spector lost it. 

This is my concern as well.

I do have a pessimistic bent about me on some topics. Not all , I assure you.
But Bills at MLB and getting the run stopped are one of those.

 Expect each team to find out what is in the middle of the field defending for the Bills.
 

Benford ? Cool. They will likely be rotating in anyways, if they are smart.
 

I hope fans can keep in mind Jets D line is going to be brutal. One of the best imo.
 Dont fret when our Boy gets confused at what they bring with stunts and blitzes. Give him a few run plays to show his strength and neutralize a few defenders with prejudice !

[NewEra]

33 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That's just not correct.  You can't just dismiss his point of view, and mine, by saying that the only thing we can discuss is what he's done to date.  I, for example, have a completely rational explanation of why Bernard might do just fine.  I just posted it.  The explanation is that amateur analysis of limited play by Bernard last year may simply not be as good as professional analysis by multiple people, many of whom have been doing nothing but analyzing talent and teaching football for 20 years or more.   I actually have a lot of confidence in that point of view, because I don't believe that McBeane would have done nothing about getting high quality linebacker talent if they thought they needed it.  

I didn’t read your previous post, but I think we’re looking at this from different angles. 
 

My post was based on this quote

 “The key point here is we don't know anything until Bernard's snap count is large enough to make a rational evaluation.  Too many here seem to have prejudged Bernard before he's had any significant playing time.”

 

So what does this mean?  We can’t express our current thoughts on the player because we don’t have a large enough sample size?  It’s a message board in 2023.  People have opinions and like to share them.  To date….what I’VE seen from Bernard, has been underwhelming and doesn’t lead me to believe that he’s going to be a satisfactory starting Mike.
 

I didn’t mean to dismiss your opinion or anyone else’s.  All I can discuss is what I’ve seen to date.  If I haven’t seen it, I don’t know about it, so I can’t discuss it.   Maybe you’re interpreting what I’m saying in a different light or maybe I didn’t word it correctly?  🤷🏻‍♂️  but I definitely don’t feel that what I said is wrong.  I’m allowed to have an opinion of a player before he’s played enough snaps to make a rational evaluation.  I’m sure everyone here has been guilty of that. As if it’s a terrible thing. Sheeesh

 

its not as if I’m making a declaration that Terrel Bernard is 💯 too small

and weak to play the Mike.  From what I’ve seen….I fear that may be the case.  Just like I feared Matt Barkleys arm was too weak and would prevent him from being a good starter.  
 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by NewEra

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

It's always possible that Bernard will play well enough that McDermott doesn't want to make a change.  

I would not be surprised if that has been the plan all along.

otherwise , not bringing a FA in much earlier seems nearly stupid.

 No matter what it appears to be lacking. They certainly have a plan.

 

Fingers crossed McB is learning from earlier failings.

 Go Bills

[Buffalo_Stampede]

This is our starting MLB and I’m going to stand behind him.

 

 

[NewEra]

38 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That's just not correct.  You can't just dismiss his point of view, and mine, by saying that the only thing we can discuss is what he's done to date.  I, for example, have a completely rational explanation of why Bernard might do just fine.  I just posted it.  The explanation is that amateur analysis of limited play by Bernard last year may simply not be as good as professional analysis by multiple people, many of whom have been doing nothing but analyzing talent and teaching football for 20 years or more.   I actually have a lot of confidence in that point of view, because I don't believe that McBeane would have done nothing about getting high quality linebacker talent if they thought they needed it.  

Also to my point-  our dialog started with these quotes because 2 people disagreed with his opinion- he found it amusing that other disagreed with his opinion- guilty of dismissing other opinions as amusing. Something that you thought I was doing to you

4 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

 

It's amusing that some have disagreed and disliked this comment when it's just a simple fact. 

 

5 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Bernard is not undersized. He's bigger than Milano and slightly lighter than Roquan Smith. 

 

[3rdand12]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This is our starting MLB and I’m going to stand behind him.

 

 

Probably safer that way.

I mean standing in front of an NFL LBr is kinda just asking to be hit and severely injured , as a regular citizen.

 I mean he looks the part of half crazy. I do like that in a MLB

[BuffBillsForLife]

Glad to see the C/B/2 debate is settled.  For week 1 at least...

[juno999]

5 hours ago, eball said:

Anyone else of the opinion that perhaps Benford was just severely overlooked and under-drafted coming from a school like Villanova?  I'm more impressed with Benford than I am disappointed in Elam.  I still think Elam is going to play a bunch this year.

 

Best news is that Dodson is on the bench.  That dude sucks.

 

Finally some interior OL depth also, with Bates and Edwards.

 

I just hope Bernard doesn't shite himself Monday night.  Kirksey needs to get ready fast.

 

I'm curious to see if there is any chance Kirksey is a PS call up for Jets game.  He played for Al Holcumb in Cleveland so there's some familiarity.  It may be too quick but Bills can't be feeling too good the way Dodson flamed out and Bernard missed all 3 preseason games.

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

I don’t know what the appropriate idiom is here.  Maybe he’s the one-eyed king in the land of the blind.  Maybe he’s the lesser of the evils.  I don’t know.  But it’s clear to me that he did not, by any objective measure, win the MLB competition.  Dodson, Klein, and Spector lost it. 

I just don't think there's anyway to know that without us seeing practice.

 

The record on this staff of giving a position to a young guy because of the benefit of the doubt is non existent. 

 

Maybe it did here, but track record says it didn't, and a 3rd rder in year 2 is a weird place to start. Only way I see it is if staff has made a fundamental change to that approach, which is welcomed by many.

 

IF we did do that, we can't complain the young guys never see the field, and complain that a young guy got the nod to start. Again, that's a big if

[ColoradoBills]

I'm going to say this when it comes to the MLB.

Bills had to plan on Edmunds most likely leaving.  So what happened.

 

Drafted what is considered undersized LBs.

Had open competition with the lighter guys.

They let a heavy LB go in Klien.

They acquired Kirksey who is typical in size for MLB.

 

My speculation (and that's all any of us are doing right now) is that Beane and McDermott made a conscious decision to go lighter.

The summer left Spector on IR, Bernard banged up and Dotson looking ill-suited for the job, Kirksey on the PS has to be insurance

and a perceived upgrade from Klien.

Bernard gets the call because the whole summer the scheme is to be lighter at MLB.

 

We don't know what changes the D has in store for us this season, but McDermott is evidently sticking with his plan.

If it fails, we most likely see Kirksey soon.

[newcam2012]

55 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Throw all draft scouting reports away. 
 

We’ll see what happens. The Bills have set themselves up for criticism here. But they were not forced into this situation. They 100% felt they had a starting MLB on the roster. 
 

You have let everything play out. I still remember seeing an interview of Marv Levy talking about having some stud RB from Coe College. I was like who the heck is Fred Jackson. He can’t be serious.

Bernard > Lawrence Taylor 

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

He shouldn't be starting. He's shown nothing to indicate he's capable. This is a calculated risk Beane and McD took. I guess we will see how bad it is because there's unlikely any good coming on Monday night. Close your eyes and cross your fingers. 

I stand by what I said. He wasn't that good in Oregon either. The pick was a WTF moment from Beane. He has at least one in every draft. 

Lolzzzzzzz you've got to be kidding!

 

You saw enough of his play at Oregon to know? 😆😆😆🤡🤡🤡🤡

[hondo in seattle]

6 hours ago, Process said:

Excited about Torrence and anyone not named Dodson

 

 

 

 

None of these individually is a huge surprise.  But I wouldn't have guessed all of these happening.