Bernard, Torrence and Benford all officially starters

[par73]

Interesting how Bernard "won" the job while he was injured (McDermott said it was too close to call with Dodson-- and would like to see someone step up). My opinion-- he saw how bad Dodson was in the preseason, and Bernard was named the starter since the other contenders took themselves out based on performance.

It sure would have been nice if the Bills had addressed MLB more seriously in the offseason, instead of assuming someone would step up. Having seen Bernard last year (unless he is greatly improved-- didn't sound like it, when he was in a dead-heat with Dodson), I assume he is a place-holder until Kirksey is up to speed.

[Behindenemylines]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Funny because we had the biggest MLB in the league and fans absolutely hated Edmunds here.

Wasn’t because of his size, it was because he had little instinct. 

[Doc Brown]

8 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Bernard > Lawrence Taylor 

Finally an optimistic post from you.  Just admit you think deep down we're going 20-0 this year.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I just wish we had seen more of Bernard at some point. Would be nice to have a feel for him as a fan. I was all

for Dodson until about halfway through last season and I’m done with him. I would have drafted a starting MLB in round 1 or 2 but…hopefully Bernard ends up being great and Beane knew all along. 

[GunnerBill]

15 hours ago, appoo said:

Hamlin is the box safety and Hyde the deeper safety to Poyer's box safety...one would think that's going to be Taylor Rapp

 

Rapp is really a box safety too. What they did last year is Poyer played much more as the centre fielder with Hamlin in the box role. I expect Rapp will mainly play in the box and Poyer will play deep if Hyde can't go. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, Behindenemylines said:

Wasn’t because of his size, it was because he had little instinct. 

Exactly the point. It’s rarely about the size of the player. Instinct and technique go a long way.

 

Jason Kelce is probably 280lbs going up against 325lbs DTs and he wins almost every rep.

[Max Fischer]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Exactly the point. It’s rarely about the size of the player. Instinct and technique go a long way.

 

Jason Kelce is probably 280lbs going up against 325lbs DTs and he wins almost every rep.

 

Yet at the same time, many fans on this thread have concluded that Bernard cannot be a good MLB because of his size. His size "could" be a factor, but we won't know that until he's played a few games. Who knows, perhaps instinct, technique, and athleticism will win out. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Max Fischer said:

 Who knows, perhaps instinct, technique, and athleticism will win out. 

The question is whether Bernard has any of these!

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

The question is whether Bernard has any of these!

agreed, he's looked slow to me previously.  Would be happy for him to show up and ball out....but at least we have Kirksey on deck 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The question is whether Bernard has any of these!

 

So he lacks a feel for the game, has poor technique, and is slow and unathletic yet he's picked to start by the coach?

[Max Fischer]

36 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The question is whether Bernard has any of these!

 

If he wasn't, Klein or Dodson would start. 

[Udubalum07]

I do think with Bernard, it is more about not feeling good about anybody they put out there than him playing great and winning the job.  McD said he was disappointed with the overall play from the position both vocally and physically.  He likes the way Klein communicated, but he doesn't seem to have the ability to play the position how he wants it played. 

 

Reading between the lines, he really hasn't loved anything he had seen, but Bernard seems to have the most upside.  I believe he will have Kirksey starting around week 4 if Bernard can't be  serviceable.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

7 hours ago, par73 said:

Interesting how Bernard "won" the job while he was injured (McDermott said it was too close to call with Dodson-- and would like to see someone step up). My opinion-- he saw how bad Dodson was in the preseason, and Bernard was named the starter since the other contenders took themselves out based on performance.

It sure would have been nice if the Bills had addressed MLB more seriously in the offseason, instead of assuming someone would step up. Having seen Bernard last year (unless he is greatly improved-- didn't sound like it, when he was in a dead-heat with Dodson), I assume he is a place-holder until Kirksey is up to speed.

 

Bernard was brought in as a leader/student of the game, more than based off of his physical traits.  The path to starting and success isn't always linear, it might require you to gain some size or strength, learn nuances of a new position, how to react more instinctively at a new spot, improve your tackling form, learn to shed blocks more effectively, etc.  But i think play recognition, game calling, and general film study are strengths of his - and that is probably why they want him out there.  

[K-9]

9 hours ago, par73 said:

Interesting how Bernard "won" the job while he was injured (McDermott said it was too close to call with Dodson-- and would like to see someone step up). My opinion-- he saw how bad Dodson was in the preseason, and Bernard was named the starter since the other contenders took themselves out based on performance.

It sure would have been nice if the Bills had addressed MLB more seriously in the offseason, instead of assuming someone would step up. Having seen Bernard last year (unless he is greatly improved-- didn't sound like it, when he was in a dead-heat with Dodson), I assume he is a place-holder until Kirksey is up to speed.

Yep. Bernard didn’t win the job so much as Dodson et al lost it. And he’s gonna be a prime target for the Jets run game coordinator to exploit like they did last year in NY. That said, the D is healthier than at any time last year and we will have Milano alongside him. 

[newcam2012]

9 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Finally an optimistic post from you.  Just admit you think deep down we're going 20-0 this year.

I want to see Allen hoist the Lombardi Trophy.

10 hours ago, Dopey said:

But @newcam2012 was on such a roll. 😂

But I did see him play seven games and 45 plays. Extremely short sample but I saw little to nothing that left me encouraged. I saw nothing that indicates he's close to being a starter. 

 

Dopey (fitting name perhaps) what did you see? 

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Bernard was brought in as a leader/student of the game, more than based off of his physical traits.  The path to starting and success isn't always linear, it might require you to gain some size or strength, learn nuances of a new position, how to react more instinctively at a new spot, improve your tackling form, learn to shed blocks more effectively, etc.  But i think play recognition, game calling, and general film study are strengths of his - and that is probably why they want him out there.  

This is a really interesting point.  My recollection is that when he was drafted, a lot of the decision was supported by the opinion of his college coach, with whom McDermott is friendly, and by the fact that Bernard was, as you say, an extraordinary student of the game.  (No one said this, that I recall, but he was sort of like Kellen Moore, a guy with an excellent college career who can at least survive in the NFL mostly on brain power.)  The assumption is exactly what you say - that he can learn to do the physical things well enough, but his real benefit should be running the defense and playing mistake-free football.  Kind of a Hyde-in-the-middle.  That may be what McDermott sees in Bernard.   And, by the way, that kind of on-field leadership is something Edmunds never grew into.  

 

It will be very interesting to see what happens at that position.  I'd guess that McDermott and the coaches have a pretty good idea what to expect from Bernard, where he's going to help and where he's going to be a liability, and McDermott seems to have confidence in him.  But we're naturally less confident, because all we know is that for all those great attributes, on the field Kellen Moore was still only Kellen Moore.  Is Bernard's ceiling just too low for him to handle the position?   It'll be interesting.  

[Doc]

Meh.  He'll be in there for the Jets game at most and then Kirksey will take over.

[BarleyNY]

20 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

But OTOH you keep basically preaching to us a football version of the Divine Plan: the roster is this way because it has been willed so by One Bills Drive.  “Beane and McDermott know what they are doing and who are we fans to question them.”  Talk about self-righteous…

Yup. "Appeal to Authority" is a logical fallacy. It is when someone asserts that something is true because someone deemed an expert says that it is. I have heard a version of this for just about every coach and GM that the Bills have had. I'm not sure how anyone can make such a claim after seeing all of the mistakes they've all made. That includes the current group. 

[oldmanfan]

39 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Yup. "Appeal to Authority" is a logical fallacy. It is when someone asserts that something is true because someone deemed an expert says that it is. I have heard a version of this for just about every coach and GM that the Bills have had. I'm not sure how anyone can make such a claim after seeing all of the mistakes they've all made. That includes the current group. 

This raises an interesting philosophical point.  The Internet and social media has led to many thinking they are knowledgeable in areas because of the ready access of information.  Take pro football and our current GM and HC.  Do they make mistakes that fans can criticize? Sure.  But do they make as many as someone here on this board would make if thrown into the job?  Not a chance.  Because they are indeed more expert in their field than any of us are.

 

I’m an IVF lab director with over 40 years experience and I have folks without a high school diploma try to tell me on social media how reproduction works.  Sorry, but I am an expert; you are not.  It would be like me taking my taxes to an accountant and then telling him or her I’m going to redo them because I know better.  So when it comes to football I give guys who have done this for years the benefit of the doubt, because I believe experience and expertise is to be valued and not belittled.

[BarleyNY]

23 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

This raises an interesting philosophical point.  The Internet and social media has led to many thinking they are knowledgeable in areas because of the ready access of information.  Take pro football and our current GM and HC.  Do they make mistakes that fans can criticize? Sure.  But do they make as many as someone here on this board would make if thrown into the job?  Not a chance.  Because they are indeed more expert in their field than any of us are.

 

I’m an IVF lab director with over 40 years experience and I have folks without a high school diploma try to tell me on social media how reproduction works.  Sorry, but I am an expert; you are not.  It would be like me taking my taxes to an accountant and then telling him or her I’m going to redo them because I know better.  So when it comes to football I give guys who have done this for years the benefit of the doubt, because I believe experience and expertise is to be valued and not belittled.

 

Couple points:

- There’s a big difference between acknowledging that someone is an expert and asserting their infallibility. 

- On the tax example my MIL had hers done by the same professional for decades. She passed away last year and my wife is handling her estate. She found numerous mistakes in the taxes sent to her by the same professional tax accountant. Some took several corrections before they were fully rectified. Thus the danger of appealing to authority.

- Similarly a lot of fans thought that despite his extensive experience Rex Ryan was going to be a disaster here. And they sure weren’t wrong. I hear the same argument of “he’s the pro.”

- Just because a fan may not be able to do the job of a GM doesn’t mean that they can’t point out where they think he went wrong. I’m not a professional chef, but I can tell you that a meal is terrible when I have a really bad one - and sometimes even when I’m watching one be made. 

- Let’s not confuse name calling and belittling someone with fans voicing legitimate concerns and criticisms.

- I don’t see the same push back when Bills fans criticize other teams players, coaches and GMs. Why the double standard?

 

There’s nothing wrong with a fan stating that they think we will have a problem at MLB because our starting MLB performed poorly last year and hasn’t been on the field in the preseason. That’s legitimate. That doesn’t mean that they’re rooting for the player to fail or rooting against the Bills.