Caleb Williams - unreal player (and who will get him?)

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

Cardinals are getting the top pick but my point was that the rams are tanking too and are AWFUL. MCvay mentioned today kupp might go on IR. Like I said in this thread earlier, I don’t think they’ll play him this year. They’re going to tank too. Playing the somehow-even-worse cardinals though will cost them 2 losses and the overall top pick. 

 

The Rams will win more than 2 games.

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Rams will win more than 2 games.

Look at their schedule. 4 wins is their ceiling in my opinion both based on rosters and also them tanking. Besides the 2 cardinals games, the only other games they could win might be against the colts and commanders. 

[SoCal Deek]

33 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It's pretty thin.  One fantastic season as a starter.  Ok Freshman performance. 

 

He is the top college QB hands down right now.

But he didn’t start his career at USC. He came over with his coach. 

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

Look at their schedule. 4 wins is their ceiling in my opinion both based on rosters and also them tanking. Besides the 2 cardinals games, the only other games they could win might be against the colts and commanders. 

 

Disagree. I think 5 is their absolute floor.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Lol, one has nothing to do with the other!!! The PLAYER needs to be evaluated not PLAYERS THAT USED TO PLAY THERE!! This is so simple!! It remains the dumbest argument in sports. Don’t be so simple. 

 

I’m not going to appease your ridiculous argument but what kind of success have Lincoln Riley developed QBs had? That’s INFINITELY more relevant in this discussion. 

If that happened, he’d be, without question, the greatest college player ever. He already has a decent shot at a 2nd Heisman. 

The Heisman means nothing. College football and the NFL are 2 different things. Whether it’s luck or not ,usc  QBs have not panned out well. Chalk it up to whatever reasoning you’d like. Yes, I know it’s on the individual, but you can say the same thing about a football player from Texas and a football player from Alaska having an equal shot when it just isn’t true. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[mannc]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Disagree. I think 5 is their absolute floor.

I think you are overrating the Rams desire and ability to win.  I expect them to roll out Stetson Bennett by week 8 and they are already making noise about Cooper Kupp not being fully recovered from his injury. I expect him to end up on IR. And check out the number of UDFAs on that roster…

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, mannc said:

I think you are overrating the Rams desire and ability to win.  I expect them to roll out Stetson Bennett by week 8 and they are already making noise about Cooper Kupp not being fully recovered from his injury. I expect him to end up on IR. And check out the number of UDFAs on that roster…

 

Yea they'd have to actually really try to tank. I said that right at the start. Is McVay in on a total tank? I mean he was talking retirement two years ago because he'd climbed the mountain. Maybe he is and they are gonna try really hard to lose. Just not sure I see that tbh.

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea they'd have to actually really try to tank. I said that right at the start. Is McVay in on a total tank? I mean he was talking retirement two years ago because he'd climbed the mountain. Maybe he is and they are gonna try really hard to lose. Just not sure I see that tbh.

McVay has zero interest in sticking around for a bottoming-out.

[mannc]

14 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

McVay has zero interest in sticking around for a bottoming-out.

I mean, he's what, 37 years old?     

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, mannc said:

I mean, he's what, 37 years old?     

 

Yea but I just do not get the sense he is a "see the big picture guy." He does not need to coach. He could walk tomorrow and land any network TV job he wanted covering the NFL. 

 

Maybe I will be proven wrong and he is happy to bottom out draft Williams and try and win but nothing about his personality suggests that to me tbh. The Rams would have to TRY to lose to even get close to the #1 pick. I just do not see them doing that.

[mannc]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea but I just do not get the sense he is a "see the big picture guy." He does not need to coach. He could walk tomorrow and land any network TV job he wanted covering the NFL. 

 

Maybe I will be proven wrong and he is happy to bottom out draft Williams and try and win but nothing about his personality suggests that to me tbh. The Rams would have to TRY to lose to even get close to the #1 pick. I just do not see them doing that.

I'll grant you that it will be difficult for them to outcompete Houston and Arizona for that first pick, but I think their roster is every bit as bad as those teams', especially if they decide to play Bennett at QB and sit Kupp.   

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

The Heisman means nothing. College football and the NFL are 2 different things. Whether it’s luck or not ,usc  QBs have not panned out well. Chalk it up to whatever reasoning you’d like. Yes, I know it’s on the individual, but you can say the same thing about a football player from Texas and a football player from Alaska having an equal shot when it just isn’t true. 

I don’t know who said that college and the NFL were the same? Equal shot? What does that even mean? It’s COMPLETELY irrelevant how previous players played at a school. You ONLY evaluate the player. The history of the school at a position means nothing. That holds especially true with a different coaching staff.

 

In terms of the Heisman, it wasn’t a great indicator of pro value for years. Guys like Jason White and Eric Crouch won. Over the last 16 years, 15 Heisman winners have been 1st rounders (Derrick Henry as the exception). 7 of them went first overall (Williams will be 8). The Heisman is a decent indicator of draft position in 2023. That’s how NFL teams view these guys.

[NoSaint]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea but I just do not get the sense he is a "see the big picture guy." He does not need to coach. He could walk tomorrow and land any network TV job he wanted covering the NFL. 

 

Maybe I will be proven wrong and he is happy to bottom out draft Williams and try and win but nothing about his personality suggests that to me tbh. The Rams would have to TRY to lose to even get close to the #1 pick. I just do not see them doing that.

Yea, that rams roster is no worse than any of the bills rosters that landed picks much closer to 10th than 1st. 
 

stafford would be among the best qbs we had. Akers has something to prove. I think kupp comes back because he’s already 30 and wants to cement a legacy. Aaron Donald is going to play. 
 

id agree that they could easily sweep the cards, colts, commanders… Green Bay could be awful. That’s 5 wins without a single upset. 
 

2 wins out of the browns/giants/seahawks(x2) is already a 7 win season without going wild.

[NoSaint]

10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I don’t know who said that college and the NFL were the same? Equal shot? What does that even mean? It’s COMPLETELY irrelevant how previous players played at a school. You ONLY evaluate the player. The history of the school at a position means nothing. That holds especially true with a different coaching staff.

 

In terms of the Heisman, it wasn’t a great indicator of pro value for years. Guys like Jason White and Eric Crouch won. Over the last 16 years, 15 Heisman winners have been 1st rounders (Derrick Henry as the exception). 7 of them went first overall (Williams will be 8). The Heisman is a decent indicator of draft position in 2023. That’s how NFL teams view these guys.

same system I’d venture hearing echoes of past guys in the scouting report isn’t unreasonable. That doesn’t mean they are solidly clones but there’s a good chance there are similar traits sought by the coach to capitalize similar schemes. 
 

across various regimes that gets more distant but there’s possibly some residue through the years. Regional culture (both campus and recruiting pool), player development (both campus and recruiting pool)

 

I think it’s dumb to say I’d never draft a Texas lineman because of mike Williams but over the course of multiple regimes I wouldn’t be shocked to find out a couple consistent boosters liked a certain style of lineman and their techniques of appealing to those lineman might have drawn in the wrong personality type for long term success (ie physically dominating but a weak work ethic might like their sales pitch)
 

 

[wppete]

I am blown away on how talented Caleb Williams is. He is one of the best College QBs I have QBs I’ve seen. I do see the comparisons to Mahomes but I think he is a way better athlete, more creative and overall a better QB. Who ever has the #1 pick overall next year is going to get one hell of a QB. It’s going to be fun to see him in the NFL, hopefully he stays out of the AFC. 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 9/4/2023 at 8:11 AM, Process said:

The Cardinals organization is pretty much a joke but that was an amazing trade they made with Houston last draft. They have a legitimate chance at getting both Williams and Harrison Jr. 

That's a scary duo....

[mannc]

33 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Yea, that rams roster is no worse than any of the bills rosters that landed picks much closer to 10th than 1st. 
 

stafford would be among the best qbs we had. Akers has something to prove. I think kupp comes back because he’s already 30 and wants to cement a legacy. Aaron Donald is going to play. 
 

id agree that they could easily sweep the cards, colts, commanders… Green Bay could be awful. That’s 5 wins without a single upset. 
 

2 wins out of the browns/giants/seahawks(x2) is already a 7 win season without going wild.

We'll see.  I think the Rams are putrid and they will demonstrate that this weekend in Seattle.  And I actually think Washington and GB will be pretty good this year.  I certainly don't think the Rams will be favored over either.

On 9/4/2023 at 8:11 AM, Process said:

The Cardinals organization is pretty much a joke but that was an amazing trade they made with Houston last draft. They have a legitimate chance at getting both Williams and Harrison Jr. 

On the flip side, that was an insanely stupid trade by Houston.  Caserio might be the worst GM in the league now that Gettleman has been forcibly retired.  

[BeavercreekBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, mannc said:

We'll see.  I think the Rams are putrid and they will demonstrate that this weekend in Seattle.  And I actually think Washington and GB will be pretty good this year.  I certainly don't think the Rams will be favored over either.

On the flip side, that was an insanely stupid trade by Houston.  Caserio might be the worst GM in the league now that Gettleman has been forcibly retired.  

All things I’ve been saying in this thread as well. The rams will only be favored in the 2 cards games, that’s it. Maybe the colts game too. WSH and GB will be favored and rightfully so after Kupp is shut down and stafford too. Agree on Houston. When that trade happened I thought it was a misprint then and it’s even worse now. Even if Houston gets pick #3, Arizona will still get Caleb and Harrison jr because whoever is at 2 presumably will need a qb and will take maye. What a move Arizona pulled off. 

[mannc]

6 minutes ago, BeavercreekBillsFan said:

All things I’ve been saying in this thread as well. The rams will only be favored in the 2 cards games, that’s it. Maybe the colts game too. WSH and GB will be favored and rightfully so after Kupp is shut down and stafford too. Agree on Houston. When that trade happened I thought it was a misprint then and it’s even worse now. Even if Houston gets pick #3, Arizona will still get Caleb and Harrison jr because whoever is at 2 presumably will need a qb and will take maye. What a move Arizona pulled off. 

AZ might be really bad this year, but if they can get Williams and Harrison, they could turn it around in a hurry, especially if Paris Johnson turns out to be a solid LT and they hit on a couple of defenders in the draft.    

 

And yes, I think there is every indication that the Lambs will shut down both Kupp and Stafford this year, at which point you can expect Aaron Donald to take a few "veteran rest" weeks, or maybe even get traded...

[Kirby Jackson]

8 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

same system I’d venture hearing echoes of past guys in the scouting report isn’t unreasonable. That doesn’t mean they are solidly clones but there’s a good chance there are similar traits sought by the coach to capitalize similar schemes. 
 

across various regimes that gets more distant but there’s possibly some residue through the years. Regional culture (both campus and recruiting pool), player development (both campus and recruiting pool)

 

I think it’s dumb to say I’d never draft a Texas lineman because of mike Williams but over the course of multiple regimes I wouldn’t be shocked to find out a couple consistent boosters liked a certain style of lineman and their techniques of appealing to those lineman might have drawn in the wrong personality type for long term success (ie physically dominating but a weak work ethic might like their sales pitch)
 

 

The same system is potentially relevant (or at least somewhat). In this case it would be a bonus playing for Reilly. The rest of it seems like a stretch. That’s at least true for the teams with a national recruiting base.