Vikings Chad Greenway takes shot at Leslie Frazier defense

[Dr.Sack]

I see the defense staying the same as we seem to be preferinf zone covers over guys who play press man.

 

Unless McD surprises teams with subpackages that deploy more variety, I think this is the same defense.

[BillsShredder83]

8 hours ago, BillzFreak said:

That's what I was thinking during watching how we played defense, Jim Johnson ran a bunch of exotic and disguised blitzes. So watching this team sit back time and time again with a head coach who supposedly is a Jim Johnson protégé has been odd. I understand every coach has tweaks and puts there own spin on how they run things but it seems McDermott has gotten away from most of what he learned under Johnson. So hopefully this is the year he goes back and actually becomes aggressive with the defense. 

Even if McD has been half or more complicit in the soft defense, I'd like to think he's really learned enough to start taking a loss on his shield "throwing punches". As opposed to sitting back in the pocket losing rounds 10-9 in hopes of not getting knocked out. 

 

Were a top scoring offense, make teams try to go score for score with us until they make a mistake. Other offenses can't score like we can. Worst thing we can do is allow for long scoring drives, lessening total possessions each team has per game. 

 

If each team is having 14+ possessions per game (current avg is 12), I like our odds of outscoring them at worst case scenario. At best case scenario, our increased pressure leads to other teams having to outscore us, WHILE having a net negative in turnovers. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by BillsShredder83

[Ethan in Cleveland]

How does McD the HC get a pass if his DC is not being aggressive enough? Isn’t it McD’s job to make sure his coordinators are doing a good job.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

It’s the thing I’m most excited about this season.  Seeing the defense under McD rather than Loosey Frazier 

I agree. I just hope it's what we have been waiting for. Never liked Leslie's soft zone yet last year we were #2 in the league in points allowed.  It just never translates to the playoffs?  I don't have the answer but I'm optimistic if Von comes back healthy and Sean turns up the heat.

[Rigotz]

Id like to officially throw “bend but don’t break” defense in the same trash pile as “blue collar, high motor defensive ends” like Chris Kelsey and Ryan Denney.

[McDeerInTheHeadlights]

8 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

is this a quote from like 10 years ago?

 

Doesn't seem relevant to me.  They didn't really get much better with zimmer's aggressive defense the next season.  

 

I have never believed Frazier was not doing in part what McDermott wanted.  If you become a head coach based on something you did to get you hired you are not just going to let someone else run that unit without your final say on things.

time will tell and hopefully they pick their spots to be more aggressive but I am not anticipating this large change many seem to believe is coming.

 

I would tend to agree.

 

Besides, it would have simply been negligent on McD's part to just stand there and witness his defense being sliced up time and time again by top offenses if he had such a radically different idea.

 

I'm anticipating some changes, hopefully more aggressiveness (not that it takes much) but not the night and day contrast that some seem to expect.

[RiotAct]

9 hours ago, co_springs_billsfan said:

Leslie so classy he probably just ADDED Greenway to the Christmas card list 

ugh, why does he have to be so frigging nice?

[HappyCat]

9 hours ago, HaldimandBills said:

This brings joy. My biggest issue with our defense is watching top tier QB's laugh at our Tampa 2 defense as they march up and down the field on us.

 

I dont mind giving up the odd big play against superior offenses when they'll inevitably score anyways after a 12 play drive. I'd rather risk some creativity and force turnovers and stops. It's been gut wrenching watching DeShaun Watson, Philip Rivers, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, and to some extent Skylar Thompson marching up and down on this soft zone defense. 

 

There has to be something said for a defense who let's QB's take easy throws and get in a throwing groove. Make them work for their receptions. 

The Super Bowl teams in the 90's played the same soft defense in every game.  Bennet & Smith were handled easily.  I hated it when Kelso played 20-25 yards deep and still couldn't make tackles/

[Buffalo Barbarian]

10 hours ago, DJB said:

 

 

amen to that !!! I never wanted that defense here and its it time to get after it. We may ranked lower on defense but we will be a better defense that doesnt get run over and play soft on third and long.

 

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

How does McD the HC get a pass if his DC is not being aggressive enough? Isn’t it McD’s job to make sure his coordinators are doing a good job.

 

 

I have not seen people around here giving McDermott a free pass. Most of the comments have been that the Bills defensive failings in key playoff situations is on him... accentuated by the fact of him calling strategic time outs to poor results.

 

The only credit I see people giving McDermott is that he's doing the right thing by taking over the defensive helm and graphically taking responsibility for that side of the ball... removing any separation between himself and accountability.

 

 

[Mc1320]

With its passive rush 4 and drop 7 philosophy, this defense has looked nothing like the attacking, bad ass defenses that Jim Johnson had in Philly when McD was there.  That dude was a mad scientist when it came to generating creative blitzes.

 

Edmonds couldn’t read, react and plug a hole on a run play to save his life…hopefully we can get Kirksey acclimated quickly and go on the attack.

[That's No Moon]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

How does McD the HC get a pass if his DC is not being aggressive enough? Isn’t it McD’s job to make sure his coordinators are doing a good job.

 

I'd love to know exactly at which points Happy Claps took over the play calling for the last couple years.  It's happened, they've copped to some of them, I just wonder if we've only heard about it when it went well.

 

Don't take this as defense of Frazier's defense. I hated it and I hate the philosophy in general. I agree with others who have said that it works really well against average to poor QBs. As soon as you face a QB that's willing to take what you give him, and can deliver the ball to the correct place accurately, they pick it apart. 

[Richard Noggin]

11 hours ago, HaldimandBills said:

This brings joy. My biggest issue with our defense is watching top tier QB's laugh at our Tampa 2 defense as they march up and down the field on us.

 

I dont mind giving up the odd big play against superior offenses when they'll inevitably score anyways after a 12 play drive. I'd rather risk some creativity and force turnovers and stops. It's been gut wrenching watching DeShaun Watson, Philip Rivers, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, and to some extent Skylar Thompson marching up and down on this soft zone defense. 

 

There has to be something said for a defense who let's QB's take easy throws and get in a throwing groove. Make them work for their receptions. 

 

Aside from most of 2020 (when our OL ranked fairly highly and Josh was Mister Zen, this is what defenses have decided NOT to do against Josh Allen). Turns out Allen will effing kill you like a barbarous surgeon savant if you let him operate free from duress. So teams have since mixed in all kinds of attacks, to all kinds of mixed results (mostly still in Buffalo's favor, but pressure and variety IS essential to speeding up Josh Allen's processing and getting him to turn the ball over). 

 

I'd like to see the Bills defense ALSO attempt to actively disrupt an elite QB's mental processing with variety and aggression. Seems to be more effective than backing off and surrendering plays. 

[That's No Moon]

6 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

Aside from most of 2020 (when our OL ranked fairly highly and Josh was Mister Zen, this is what defenses have decided NOT to do against Josh Allen). Turns out Allen will effing kill you like a barbarous surgeon savant if you let him operate free from duress. So teams have since mixed in all kinds of attacks, to all kinds of mixed results (mostly still in Buffalo's favor, but pressure and variety IS essential to speeding up Josh Allen's processing and getting him to turn the ball over). 

It increases the odds of Dumb Josh showing up. Dumb Josh is a very frustrating person and as Josh gets older and is less able to run around and create something from nothing or defy all logic and reason Smart Josh is going to have to learn how to suppress Dumb Josh a lot better.

[Richard Noggin]

8 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

It increases the odds of Dumb Josh showing up. Dumb Josh is a very frustrating person and as Josh gets older and is less able to run around and create something from nothing or defy all logic and reason Smart Josh is going to have to learn how to suppress Dumb Josh a lot better.

 

Harsh, but true.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

I'd love to know exactly at which points Happy Claps took over the play calling for the last couple years.  It's happened, they've copped to some of them, I just wonder if we've only heard about it when it went well.

 

Don't take this as defense of Frazier's defense. I hated it and I hate the philosophy in general. I agree with others who have said that it works really well against average to poor QBs. As soon as you face a QB that's willing to take what you give him, and can deliver the ball to the correct place accurately, they pick it apart. 

Agree.

Except why do you call it Frazier's defense? That's my point. It was always McDermott's defense just Leslie calling the plays. 

I don’t understand why people think it will be any different. 

As I said at the time, the only thing that is exciting is McDermott has total accountability good or bad this year on how the defense performs. 

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

I see the defense staying the same as we seem to be preferinf zone covers over guys who play press man.

 

Unless McD surprises teams with subpackages that deploy more variety, I think this is the same defense.

I think it will be the same with regards to principles.  I think it will be different with regards to play calling, disguise, sub packages and just overall aggressiveness

[Milano]

This defense if going to be very good with McD taking over.

 

Remember Josh Allen's first career start in 2018? Chargers-Phillip Rivers week 2, (corner retired at halftime game)?

They lost big, 47-3 to Ravens in week 1, The Bills were were again down big, something like 26-3 at halftime. At halftime, McD took over defensive calls from Frazier and the Bills defense was like a completely different team.... absolutely lights out in the second half, (and for the remainder of the season) they should have won that game actually. (sh*yt call on a strip sack). 

 

Dude can coach! Go Bills!

17 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

It’s the thing I’m most excited about this season.  Seeing the defense under McD rather than Loosey Frazier 

 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

15 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said:

Doesn’t help that all the WNY media just bend the knee to the team.  They are either literally employees or so scared of making anyone in the organization even minimally uncomfortable to actually begin to hold anyone even remotely accountable.

Sounds like a Jerry Sullivan comeback is in order 😂

[BillsFan2313]

17 hours ago, SCBills said:

Old and slow now .. next year might be young and inexperienced .. there’s always a reason to keep the status quo.  
 

It’s time to change, and I really hope we see Carolina McDermott in this Defense. 

Perhaps, but we have quotes from our players that make it sound like it will be different. 

 

And evidence from when he was a DC

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the predictability is a much better point than the aggression. Even the creative things they did do in terms of some of their coverage matching (although they could do less of that once the Hyde and Poyer axis was broken) and the double A gap blitz look that they used to drop and flood zones from teams just got a bit used to them after 6 seasons of the same coordinator. 

 

Remember go back to 2019 and Bill Belichick no less was saying no defense in the NFL disguises its looks better than Buffalo. It just gets hard when you have had the same DC and a lot of the same core players - White, Poyer, Hyde, Edmunds, Johnson, Milano even Oliver together 4,5,6 seasons - to keep things fresh and to keep evolving. Teams are going to study film on you and find ways to break down what you do. 

 

I get that the D did not play well v the Bengals in the playoffs. But they held Miami to two drives of more than 30 yards in the entire game in the Wildcard and ended the regular season as a top 5 defense despite all their injuries. It was a hell of a coaching job. I think McDermott will call plays differently because no two play callers are ever the same even if the scheme is similar and that might break some tendencies that offenses had keyed in on under Frazier. Hopefully it does refresh what we are doing a bit. I just wonder if it might be undermined by the glaring hole at MLB.

 

Against a 3rd string QB. This should be expected.