Why Are We Not Winning Superbowls?

[PatsFanNH]

3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Should we also consider the defensive performances Brady also got in the post season compared to what the Bills defense provided to Allen in the Bills last three postseason defeats? 
 

In the stats below for the Pats, I looked at just their first three Super Bowl seasons since that would be a pretty accurate comparison to this current Bills team that has really only been legitimate Super Bowl contenders since 2020.
 

you will see that I highlighted theSuper Bowl points given up by the Patriots. You will see they never gave up more than 17 points to get to the super until their third Super Bowl season when they gave up 27 to the Steelers. 
 

2001- Super  Bowl - Patriots give up 13, 17 and 17 points = 47 points=15.6ppg

 

Regular season average 17ppg vs. 15.6ppg= -1.4ppg

 

2003- Super Bowl- Patriots give up 14, 14 and 29= 57 points 19ppg

 

regular season average 14.8ppg vs 19ppg= + 4.2ppg
 

2004- Super Bowl- Patriots give up 3, 27, 21= 51 points 17ppg 

 

Regular season average 16.25ppg vs 17 = +.75 avg

 

Bills:

Below I highlighted the points given up in the elimination games for the Bills.

 

2020: 24, 3, 38= 65 points, 21.6 avg

regular season avg 23.4 vs. 21.6avg= -1.8 ppg

 

Here the Bills defense was good the first two weeks but obviously crapped the bed against the Chiefs giving up 38 points, about 15 points over their regular season average 

 

 

2021: 17, 42= 59 points, 29.5 avg

regular season avg 17ppg vs 29.5 = + 12.5ppg

Another season, same story. Defense was good in the first game, crapped the bed against the Chiefs by giving up 25points over average 

 

2022: 24,27= 51points, 25.5 avg

regular season avg 17.4 vs. 25.5 = +8.1ppg

 

In the above I took out the TD the Bills gave up to the Dolphins off of the Allen fumble to not negatively affect the defensive performance.

 

Conclusions, first even if we add say 2 or 3 ppg to account for the higher scoring offenses we see today vs the offenses of 20 years ago we see that the Patriots were far better at having a tighter range on the delta of regular season vs postseason ppg given up. 
 

Second, the Chiefs are really the main reason the Bills have not had two Super Bowl appearances since 2020. The defense giving up 38 and 42 respectively is a big reason why. And oddly enough in the regular season since 2020, in three games the Bills D is giving up 26, 20 and 20 points to the Chiefs with the two 20 points performances being Bills wins. 
 

So it is not like the Bills don’t have the personnel on D to shut down the Chiefs. They have done it three times in the regular season. But again, the theme is that the defense lays an egg in the postseason.

Wow! That is some research there! Can I just add another. The SuperBiwl against the eagles :

 

Brady: 505 yards 3 TDs 105 QB rating..

 

They lost that SB because the D gave up 40+ points.

 

Defense can win and lose championships. (Or the chance to even go to the championship Bills .13 Seconds left to go with the lead and the D couldn’t stop the Chiefs)

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Why?  Because we haven’t been our best when we needed to be our best. Coaches and players. Until that changes, we will continue to be 0-Lombardi trophies 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Why?  Because we haven’t been our best when we needed to be our best. Coaches and players. Until that changes, we will continue to be 0-Lombardi trophies 

This! You have to be ‘in the moment’ at the moment. I attended two of the Bills Super Bowls and I remember both times saying how I couldn’t imagine how those guys played a football game with all of the hype and electricity in the air. The atmosphere isn’t like any other playoff game. And similarly the finality of the playoffs make them unlike any regular season game. It all comes down to preparation and execution in an environment that is pushing hard against both. To date, the Buffalo Bills have failed to discover the secret. 

[Nihilarian]

15 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Negativity and criticism has a place on the board. To bash it often is counter productive to stimulating and valid debates back and forth. 

 

However, a criticism or positive needs to be reinforced with some legitimate reasoning, facts, stats, and opinions.  I feel the original poster has failed to meet this threshold. 

 

Just my two cents 

While I agree with that first comment. There has been so much negativity from certain fans recently and I can't help but feel that these aren't really Bills fans rather than other team fans attempting to stir the pot.

 

Look at this man.  10 pages of nonsense about what? One of, if not the very best QB this franchise has ever had! It's completely baloney, the kid is super smart and has the best work ethic of any QB I've ever seen. Josh Allen works with Jordan Palmer every offseason to improve his game. 

 

Brady, like Mahomes, is a different story. Brady had a future HoF HC in BB who built a strong team with a stout run game and defense to enable Brady's growth. Mahones sat for a season and learned under both Andy Reid and QB Alex Smith. Let's face it, I doubt Mahomes would be as good under any other head coach...who is looking like a HoFer himself.  

 

Nothing wrong with a team that just went 13-3 and is looking to finally reach that SB. Other teams fans simply can't stand the success. 

[without a drought]

Lazy poster, can't expect too much.

[Chaos]

18 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread, and really debate this at face value. Let’s look at other QBs and their “work ethic” “talent abilities” and compare them to get a better idea of why. Let’s start with Tom Brady. 

 

Everyone here knows that Tom Brady is one of the least athletic QBs and yet he always had solid statistics and always knew where to place the ball. 

 

Everyone here knows that Josh Allen is one of the most athletic QBs. 

 

Josh has admitted he isn’t big into game film. But the more you dig into what it takes to be great, the more concerning that seems to be. How is it that Tom Brady can win so many super bowls with lower tier athleticism and arm strength and yet Josh Allen with his superior skill set has been unable to win even 1 Super Bowl? 

 

Tom Brady never really had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time outside of Moss, and yet he still always managed to keep the chains moving and put up points enough to win games. 

Josh Allen has had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time Diggs, and yet still unable to get over the hump. 

 

So I think questions around Allen’s “laziness” is warranted. Why should an elite talented QB be struggling more than a non elite talented QB?  

 

The only real difference is football IQ and studying the game to the point were you can attack and become a master despite not having elite traits. 

 

 

Maybe I’m wrong in this thinking, and others can chime in. But things do seem to not add up. 

Your post is the most idiotic post to ever appear on Two Drive

2 hours ago, Crunchem said:

I think Brady was a great tactician. If it was 3rd and four he knew how to move the chains, He knew where to find the receiver that had the highest probability of being open in the short game. I have seen several times here we needed to move the chains and are throwing 35 yards downfield on a lower percentage pass. It's all about posession and mamnaging the game. That's part of what made Brady great.

Bills punted less than any team in the NFL a last year. Making them literally the best team in the NFL at moving the chains.   

[NoSaint]

18 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

Why, it’s an honest discussion. Seriously, Brady wasn’t athletic at all compared to Josh, and yet he still managed to win the big games. Why? Was it because he put in more time on the field to learn the ins and outs? 

Any qb more athletic than Brady (ie nearly all) without a ring (ie nearly all) isn’t putting in the work? 
 

yea, there are a few motivations you could have and troll is probably the most generous while if it’s truly a serious discussion I feel bad about the actual underlying issues.

[Royale with Cheese]

17 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

Is criticism against the CoC? 

When its this stupid, it should be.

[Heitz]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I can't work it out. Draft a top 5 QB. Play some games. Win a Superbowl. 

 

It's well known it is as easy as that. Has anyone told the Bills? 

 

 

Buddy, asleep at the wheel!  🤣  

[Kaenon]

Because of Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs.

 

I thought it was obvious...

[DC Grid]

19 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

I swear to god this is the most negative fan forum in all of professional sports. 

Agreed. If you handed out free gold for being a Bills fan about a third of the people on this board would complain how heavy it was.  And then moan about it not being platinum.  
 

 

[Dopey]

19 hours ago, BillzFreak said:

Then let's go back to the Kelly days then, did he not want it bad enough? Honestly man if you want to troll go ahead but just be honest about it.

If my math is right, this is your 7th post in this thread. Only 2 pages in. You sure you want mods to close it?

[Utah John]

19 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread, and really debate this at face value. Let’s look at other QBs and their “work ethic” “talent abilities” and compare them to get a better idea of why. Let’s start with Tom Brady. 

 

Everyone here knows that Tom Brady is one of the least athletic QBs and yet he always had solid statistics and always knew where to place the ball. 

 

Everyone here knows that Josh Allen is one of the most athletic QBs. 

 

Josh has admitted he isn’t big into game film. But the more you dig into what it takes to be great, the more concerning that seems to be. How is it that Tom Brady can win so many super bowls with lower tier athleticism and arm strength and yet Josh Allen with his superior skill set has been unable to win even 1 Super Bowl? 

 

Tom Brady never really had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time outside of Moss, and yet he still always managed to keep the chains moving and put up points enough to win games. 

Josh Allen has had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time Diggs, and yet still unable to get over the hump. 

 

So I think questions around Allen’s “laziness” is warranted. Why should an elite talented QB be struggling more than a non elite talented QB?  

 

The only real difference is football IQ and studying the game to the point were you can attack and become a master despite not having elite traits. 

 

 

Maybe I’m wrong in this thinking, and others can chime in. But things do seem to not add up. 

I'm not going to read through pages of people flaming the OP for this, but I think there's a real point to be made here.  Things DO NOT ADD UP.  And yet the hero worship of Josh Allen, an excellent QB, will prevent people from acknowledging or even considering whether part of the blame for the Bills' failures the past few years are at his feet.  Not all, for sure.  The 13 second game was not his fault, it was on the coaches, but even in that game the Bills' offense sputtered in the early going, and caught fire late only after the KC defense got tired.  (As did the Bills defense.)  The Bills won 13 games last year and really could/should have beaten the Dolphins and Vikings, but don't forget they probably should have lost to the Ravens.  

 

The KC offense is almost always ON.  Mahomes knows.  He knows where the weak points are because he works hard to find them during the week.  Allen plays with more spontaneity but that fails more often than Mahomes does.  Allen does not have to be this way.  He could choose to buckle down and prepare as hard as other top QBs do.  Allen's teammates now see him not putting in that effort, and follow the leader.  It would be better if he DID put in the effort, and then have the teammates follow THAT.

 

Flame away, Allenites.  I'm pointing out what many people not connected to the Bills see.  

[Ya Digg?]

4 minutes ago, Utah John said:

I'm not going to read through pages of people flaming the OP for this, but I think there's a real point to be made here.  Things DO NOT ADD UP.  And yet the hero worship of Josh Allen, an excellent QB, will prevent people from acknowledging or even considering whether part of the blame for the Bills' failures the past few years are at his feet.  Not all, for sure.  The 13 second game was not his fault, it was on the coaches, but even in that game the Bills' offense sputtered in the early going, and caught fire late only after the KC defense got tired.  (As did the Bills defense.)  The Bills won 13 games last year and really could/should have beaten the Dolphins and Vikings, but don't forget they probably should have lost to the Ravens.  

 

The KC offense is almost always ON.  Mahomes knows.  He knows where the weak points are because he works hard to find them during the week.  Allen plays with more spontaneity but that fails more often than Mahomes does.  Allen does not have to be this way.  He could choose to buckle down and prepare as hard as other top QBs do.  Allen's teammates now see him not putting in that effort, and follow the leader.  It would be better if he DID put in the effort, and then have the teammates follow THAT.

 

Flame away, Allenites.  I'm pointing out what many people not connected to the Bills see.  

This entire paragraph is just full of nonsense. Go back and look at the Chiefs schedule from last year and look at some of the teams they played  barely beat. They did enough to win, but the games were close. And for the people claiming Josh doesn’t work hard during the week or offseason (yourself included) outside of Jason Whitlock show any time it has been said Josh doesn’t work hard or study hard. Josh not putting in the work has never been an issue until the last week when that statement came out

[Maine-iac]

Everyone always tosses SB wins and loses on QB's but I still think by and large defenses win championships.  Usually by the time you get to a SB you are playing the best of the best in QB's so even if your defense isn't shutting down a QB it's the two or three big plays that make a difference.  When we've made it to the playoffs whether it was injures (last year) or just not making a play when you need to (13 seconds) we haven't been up to the challenge.  The Pats (Brady) always had the defense make the plays when they needed to make plays in addition to Brady also making plays that needed to be made.  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

3 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Wow! That is some research there! Can I just add another. The SuperBiwl against the eagles :

 

Brady: 505 yards 3 TDs 105 QB rating..

 

They lost that SB because the D gave up 40+ points.

 

Defense can win and lose championships. (Or the chance to even go to the championship Bills .13 Seconds left to go with the lead and the D couldn’t stop the Chiefs)

of course . I was specifically going with the early years of each players career though for a reason. Allen doesn’t have 15 years of game and film room experience yet. 

[90sBills]

58 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

This entire paragraph is just full of nonsense. Go back and look at the Chiefs schedule from last year and look at some of the teams they played  barely beat. They did enough to win, but the games were close. And for the people claiming Josh doesn’t work hard during the week or offseason (yourself included) outside of Jason Whitlock show any time it has been said Josh doesn’t work hard or study hard. Josh not putting in the work has never been an issue until the last week when that statement came out

Isn’t the point of playing is to win? Wether by 1 or 50 it’s still a win. Chiefs are not unbeatable in this parity league but Mahomes seem to have that it factor that Brady had to find a way to win.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

18 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

He should of blown harder for Norwood's kick to sway left.  Come on man.  We could've easily won a Super Bowl with Kelly and we can with Allen.  

LOL. Coaching cost us SuperBowl XXV and coaching cost us 13 seconds.  Allen lacks for nothing except a coach to get us over the hump. Whoever this troll was that started this thread has no clue. Brady had Moss, Edelman, and Gronk after he won multiple SuperBowls with a great defense. It was a defensive masterpiece play that beat the Seahawks and an amazing gameplan that beat the Rams.  Make no doubt Belichick is not the greatest of all time without Brady, but Brady doesn't win 6 rings in Boston without Belichick.

Allen right now is a top 3 player in Bills history after Bruce and OJ.  If he wins one Lombardi then he and Bruce will stand alone as the two greatest Bills of all time.

 

   

[SoCal Deek]

No idea why this thread is narrowly focused on Allen v Brady. I don’t see the connection. Allen has NOT been common denominator of the Bills recent playoff failures. Either shift this ridiculous discussion or end the thread.

[Ya Digg?]

39 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Isn’t the point of playing is to win? Wether by 1 or 50 it’s still a win. Chiefs are not unbeatable in this parity league but Mahomes seem to have that it factor that Brady had to find a way to win.

That wasn’t the point I was trying to make. The statement was “the Chiefs offense is always on” which is not a true statement.

to answer your question though, it depends on who you talk to. Most people would say they are happy any time the Bills win. Have you ever been on this board though after a win? There are always people complaining. There were numerous threads last year after the Bills spanked the Titans and the Steelers where people were complaining about “how” they won…of course those same people just look at the box scores and highlights, see the Chiefs, Bengals, Eagles win and assume they dominated from start to finish