Nattering nabobs of negativism

[transplantbillsfan]

Josh Allen is literally the greatest thing to happen to Buffalo. He ensured the team will never leave.

 

The new stadium truly should have his name on it.

 

For that reason alone, Bills fans should never complain.

 

Regardless, all these reports are ridiculous. Jordan Palmer works with Josh every offseason and always raves about how hard he works and how badly he wants a Lombardi.

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

Yeah I'm not worried about the desire of this team... therefore I'm not worried about the work ethic.  

[Doc Brown]

8 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Please tell us where Allen described his lack of working out. 

 

I had a little look around at Kyle Brandt's Basement from this off-season and can not find such a thing.

 

Thanks.

Bussin' with the Boys podcast at the beginning of July he said he hasn't worked out at all the last two off-seasons from the end of the season to OTA's.  He says its best for him because it gives him the mental and physical rest needed for the grind of the upcoming season.  He thinks guys that work out all the time always seem to be the one's that get hurt.  He wouldn't recommend it for everybody. 

 

The clip would've got much more attention if he wasn't already a proven elite quarterback.

[SoMAn]

18 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I struggle to understand this fan base sometimes.  Many seem to actively search for ways to downplay the team’s fortunes and/or denigrate specific players, management and such.  Examples include:

 

1.  Ragging on for years on Edmunds, then as soon as he leaves in free agency ragging on Beane for not resigning or replacing him.

 

2.  Ragging on Beane for not having a veteran guy behind Brown at RT,  then ragging on him because the guy he got retired (as if Beane should be Nostradamus) then ragging on getting Ifedi as if we were going to get an All Pro.

 

There are many such examples.  But the last 24 hours or so have taken the cake, because who are we negative on now?  Josh Allen.  And why?  Mainly because of two articles from the gasbag known as Jason Whitlock, the first of which he said was a lie, then the second of which he claims Josh doesn’t work hard enough and it’s supposedly well known.  Throw in an interview with MacAfee where Josh specifically states he watches a lot of film but qualifies what he takes from it, and all of a sudden it’s Josh that is why the Bills haven’t won a Lombardi.  It’s Josh who drinks too much (one incident with Kyle Allen), Josh who doesn’t work out, Josh who doesn’t spend enough time on football in the off-season (put your TV on and measure in minutes how long till you see Mahomes in a commercial).  Or Josh impregnating waitresses, which no reputable news source has validated.

 

All this leads me to ask:  what the hell is wrong with some people around here?  I am not saying Josh can’t improve.  He needs to continue learning to take the short routes, get the ball out quicker, etc.  but to claim he is now somehow the problem, that it’s his work ethic, that as one person said here that they don’t like Josh personally  as if he actually has ever met the guy?  Come on.

 

I have thought for quite a long time there are folks on this board that really want the Bills to lose so they can somehow crow on a message board that they were right.  I think some of the stuff we’re seeing is some bizarre defense mechanism people throw up as a guard should the Bills not win it all.  
 

Me?  I’ve been a fan since 1960 when I was 5 years old.  I will do as I’ve always done, enter the season with optimism and then see how things go.  Offer praise when merited as well as criticism when merited.  But to actively seek out reasons for negativism, even to the point of believing nonsensical crap to do so?  I don’t get it.

 

 

The Bills success should be the least of our worries at this stage. At our age we should just be grateful that we have children or grandchildren around to show us where the ‘ON’ switch is located on our computers. Find us at getoffmylawm.com

[Freddie's Dead]

OP should change profile name to Bills Safire...

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Bussin' with the Boys podcast at the beginning of July he said he hasn't worked out at all the last two off-seasons from the end of the season to OTA's.  He says its best for him because it gives him the mental and physical rest needed for the grind of the upcoming season.  He thinks guys that work out all the time always seem to be the one's that get hurt.  He wouldn't recommend it for everybody. 

 

The clip would've got much more attention if he wasn't already a proven elite quarterback.

be prepared to be told you didn’t really hear what you heard and this is impossible because he outruns sweaty gymtats sometimes. 

[newcam2012]

20 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

It's not insane to conclude that Josh isn't as dedicated to his fitness when sequences on Kyle Brandt's basement go like this, and I'm paraphrasing here:

 

Kyle Brandt: What's up man, are you working out?

 

Josh Allen: Yeah (smiles) ... all the time

 

Kyle Brandt: Really? 

 

Josh Allen: All the time

 

Or later in the interview where he says that he has leaned on natural talent more in his past. 

 

Or when he talks about how Joe Burrow is "all-ball" when working with Palmer and Josh is cracking jokes. 

 

 

Then you see pictures of him and he's carrying a belly. 

 

Josh Allen HIMSELF came back to Buffalo and said he can do more and lead this team better. 

 

 

 

So it's not anti-Bills, it's not anti-Josh, it's not you really want the Bills to fail. 

 

It's this team hasn't won a Super Bowl. We're 0-4 in 60+ years of existence. 

 

And of course, in Buffalo luck, we get good just when the AFC is exploding with QB talent. 

 

And because the cap is strained, Beane has kept the 2020-2021-2022 team together as much as he possibly could (to his credit), one of the few levers this team has to get better before age catches up with them (Diggs, Von, Milano, Hyde, Poyer, White) is for Allen to take his game to another level. Since he's in Year 6 now and Sal C is running around saying he doesn't need a veteran QB anymore, he is the veteran, then his physical fitness is one avenue to possibly extract more performance. 

 

Nobody is saying they hate him or the Bills. 

 

That's classic embellishment. 

That's a home tweet! 

 

Well said!

[Bill from NYC]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Because you do realize that some great athletes can eat terribly and not workout much at all and be dominant on the field/court with what looks like a sloppy build........outperforming and recovering from injury faster than some workout warriors.

 

When they are young.

 

 

Bingo!!! Iirc, Hank Aaron smoked cigarettes. 

 

Genetics definitely do play a roll. I have not a clue about how, or how much Josh Allen works out. Whatever he is doing or not doing, the man is a super specimen. He is as strong as an ox, lightning fast, leaps over people, and can probably throw a football more than 80 yards, perhaps even without much strain. Lots of players can do SOME of these things. Bledsoe had similar arm strength to Josh for example but he was not agile and couldn't run. I could name many other QBs who fit that description.

 

Didn't Allen grow up on and work in a farm? People like that must gain strength early on as well (in addition to genetics). Bryce Paup didn't have rippling muscles, but remember how strong he was? He would move offensive liemen away by extending his arms. He grew up on a farm in Iowa.

 

I agree 100% that when they age, athletes must make certain changes to slow down the inevitable ageing process. In fact, we all should make these changes to do so. That said, I am not worried about Josh in that sense. At least not yet.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

How about just being a fan and not concerning yourself with the fandom of others?

[RunTheBall]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Bussin' with the Boys podcast at the beginning of July he said he hasn't worked out at all the last two off-seasons from the end of the season to OTA's.  He says its best for him because it gives him the mental and physical rest needed for the grind of the upcoming season.  He thinks guys that work out all the time always seem to be the one's that get hurt.  He wouldn't recommend it for everybody. 

 

The clip would've got much more attention if he wasn't already a proven elite quarterback.

 

I have no problem with Josh not hitting the weights in the off season. It gives his body time to recover from the beating it takes during the season. He’s already a monster, he doesn’t need to put on more muscle. I’m a retired IFBB Pro (bodybuilding) and there were times I’d take off 5 weeks straight, let the joints recover and come back better than before. People don’t understand the beating these guys take, especially Josh who throws his body around unlike most QBs. 

 

It’s a nothing burger if he’s not actively weight training in the offseason. Some just want anything to latch onto to say Josh isn’t doing enough and have someone to blame when we don’t win the SB. Ridiculous.

 

 

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

first of all what he said was he doesn’t train in the offseason- what he does at OBD was not part of discusIon. 
 

but I see where you’re going; based on the fact that he told the trailer boys he doesn’t train other than so throwing with Palmer in the off-season,  you’re thinking he’s just an athletic freak getting by on his talent. Not an original take, but possible… 

 

Who do you mean by "trailer boys"?

 

Maybe what we need here is some definition.  We both agree he said he takes time off, and the last two years he took more time off for recovery.

How do you define or think Josh defines "off season"?

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Who do you mean by "trailer boys"?

 

Maybe what we need here is some definition.  We both agree he said he takes time off, and the last two years he took more time off for recovery.

How do you define or think Josh defines "off season"?

 

 

 

It was bussin with the boys, not traitor boys… my error there. see above. Doc brown recapped it. 
 

 

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Bussin' with the Boys podcast at the beginning of July he said he hasn't worked out at all the last two off-seasons from the end of the season to OTA's.  He says its best for him because it gives him the mental and physical rest needed for the grind of the upcoming season.  He thinks guys that work out all the time always seem to be the one's that get hurt.  He wouldn't recommend it for everybody. 

 

The clip would've got much more attention if he wasn't already a proven elite quarterback.

 

Thanks @Doc Brown.  Now we're getting somewhere. 

After the stuff about "Josh said he's not a big film guy on Pat McAfee" when, if we listen to Pat McAfee, he nodded and said "Yeah" to that question, and then gave a limit that he doesn't like to "overwatch", I think it's probably important to be careful about what was said.

 

So let's go look at that segment and see what Josh actually said.  If anyone cares, it starts at 1:07:07. 

 

He says it's changed.  He used to throw and work out 4x a week, it was like he was in OTAs all off season, now it's like "just get away"

(there's an interlude of banter)

1:08 back to Josh.  "In the off season, get away, try not to do as much...still throw a little bit, work out a little bit, try to maintain weight"

(so we've gone from "I don't work out" to "I don't throw and work out 4x a week.......try not to do as much....still throw and work out "a little bit", whatever that means)  "My strength coaches are going to hate that I say this, but the last two off seasons I haven't done really anything before OTAs when we have baseline tests, in both years I've come back and I've tested way higher than I've tested in my entire career".

 

This raises two questions for me:

1) what does Josh mean by "OTAs"?  The Bills come back to the facility for a 2 week "phase 1" program starting April 17th.  I think that's when they do the baseline tests.  So fundamentally, Josh may be talking about taking 10 weeks off  (from January 23 to April 17), during which he still "throws a little bit, works out a little bit" (whatever that means - not 4x a week, is it 1x a week?  2x a week?  Once in a blue moon?).  Does he do his rehab program?  We hope so.  It makes a lot of sense to take 8-10 weeks off throwing and hard weight training to heal and recover.  Grade 2 muscle strains are said to take up to 3 months to fully heal, and being fully healed, they'd be stronger. 

 

2) what does "really anything" mean, as in"I haven't done really anything before OTAs"?  He's talked in the past about training with Ryan Flaherty, who he credits with improving him as a runner and helping him be strong, but flexible to avoid injury.  Flaherty has specific QB programs involving trap bar deadlifts and box squats for the lower body, and a bunch of training involving bands and single leg exercises; then he has specific shoulder and upper-body strengthening exercises involving plyometric pushups and bands.  I think it's a safe guess Josh is not doing trap bar deadlifts and box squats before OTAs.  Is he still doing band training and plio as part of rehab and to maintain flexibility? Traditional strength coaches don't necessarily think much of band exercises and so forth.  "Really anything" covers a lot of ground.

 

In any event, I think we can all agree that Josh says he doesn't follow a rigorous training program from the end of the season, to April 17 (10 weeks).  He does by his own words "throw a little bit, work out a little bit".  He may be doing a rehab program, but he's not strength training.  And he comes back healed and strong.

 

Then from April 17th on, what is he doing?  We're really talking about 3 weeks between April 28 and May 22, then 5 weeks between June 15 and July 25.  I don't think Josh is too specific about that, in this segment.  Maybe he's sitting on a sofa drinking beer between golf games and commercial recordings; maybe he's training with Flaherty or Jordan Palmer and getting his motion digitally mapped and tuned up.    There was mention of some of the guys (Kincaid was one) out in California throwing with Josh for a couple weeks, getting ready for training camp, in July.  Maybe that's really an excuse for a kegger.

 

TL;DR I've said elsewhere Josh says takes time initially in the off-season.  He says his mindset is "just get away" and he "still throws and works out a little bit", but he doesn't do "really anything" before OTA (mid April). 

 

Then there's the question of what he does from that point on, which I don't think he addresses too specifically in this point.  Maybe he sits on the sofa and drinks shots of whisky in between golf games.  Maybe he returns to train with Flaher Bear and Palmer (I think it's the latter, but who knows?)

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Beck Water

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Thanks @Doc Brown.  Now we're getting somewhere. 

After the stuff about "Josh said he's not a big film guy on Pat McAfee" when, if we listen to Pat McAfee, he nodded and said "Yeah" to that question, and then gave a limit that he doesn't like to "overwatch", I think it's probably important to be careful about what was said.

 

So let's go look at that segment and see what Josh actually said.  If anyone cares, it starts at 1:07:07. 

 

He says it's changed.  He used to throw and work out 4x a week, it was like he was in OTAs all off season, now it's like "just get away"

(there's an interlude of banter)

1:08 back to Josh.  "In the off season, get away, try not to do as much...still throw a little bit, work out a little bit, try to maintain weight"

(so we've gone from "I don't work out" to "I don't throw and work out 4x a week.......try not to do as much....still throw and work out "a little bit", whatever that means)  "My strength coaches are going to hate that I say this, but the last two off seasons I haven't done really anything before OTAs when we have baseline tests, in both years I've come back and I've tested way higher than I've tested in my entire career".

 

This raises two questions for me:

1) what does Josh mean by "OTAs"?  The Bills come back to the facility for a 2 week "phase 1" program starting April 17th.  I think that's when they do the baseline tests.  So fundamentally, Josh may be talking about taking 10 weeks off  (from January 23 to April 17), during which he still "throws a little bit, works out a little bit" (whatever that means - not 4x a week, is it 1x a week?  2x a week?  Once in a blue moon?).  Does he do his rehab program?  We hope so.  It makes a lot of sense to take 8-10 weeks off throwing and hard weight training to heal and recover.  Grade 2 muscle strains are said to take up to 3 months to fully heal, and being fully healed, they'd be stronger. 

 

2) what does "really anything" mean, as in"I haven't done really anything before OTAs"?  He's talked in the past about training with Ryan Flaherty, who he credits with improving him as a runner and helping him be strong, but flexible to avoid injury.  Flaherty has specific QB programs involving trap bar deadlifts and box squats for the lower body, and a bunch of training involving bands and single leg exercises; then he has specific shoulder and upper-body strengthening exercises involving plyometric pushups and bands.  I think it's a safe guess Josh is not doing trap bar deadlifts and box squats before OTAs.  Is he still doing band training and plio as part of rehab and to maintain flexibility? Traditional strength coaches don't necessarily think much of band exercises and so forth.  "Really anything" covers a lot of ground.

 

In any event, I think we can all agree that Josh says he doesn't follow a rigorous training program from the end of the season, to April 17 (10 weeks).  He does by his own words "throw a little bit, work out a little bit".  He may be doing a rehab program, but he's not strength training.  And he comes back healed and strong.

 

Then from April 17th on, what is he doing?  We're really talking about 3 weeks between April 28 and May 22, then 5 weeks between June 15 and July 25.  I don't think Josh is too specific about that, in this segment.  Maybe he's sitting on a sofa drinking beer between golf games and commercial recordings; maybe he's training with Flaherty or Jordan Palmer and getting his motion digitally mapped and tuned up.    There was mention of some of the guys (Kincaid was one) out in California throwing with Josh for a couple weeks, getting ready for training camp, in July.  Maybe that's really an excuse for a kegger.

 

TL;DR I've said elsewhere Josh says takes time initially in the off-season.  He says his mindset is "just get away" and he "still throws and works out a little bit", but he doesn't do "really anything" before OTA (mid April). 

 

Then there's the question of what he does from that point on, which I don't think he addresses too specifically in this point.  Maybe he sits on the sofa and drinks shots of whisky in between golf games.  Maybe he returns to train with Flaher Bear and Palmer (I think it's the latter, but who knows?)

 

 

 

 

Thank you for this.  And look at the thread on Dorsey; there it is argued working your butt off doesn’t guarantee anything.  Audible sigh...

[Dopey]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Josh Allen is literally the greatest thing to happen to Buffalo. He ensured the team will never leave.

 

The new stadium truly should have his name on it.

 

For that reason alone, Bills fans should never complain.

 

Regardless, all these reports are ridiculous. Jordan Palmer works with Josh every offseason and always raves about how hard he works and how badly he wants a Lombardi.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Pegula outbidding Bon Jovi and Trump is the reason we’re not going anywhere. We would be in Toronto if Bon Jovi had the team and Donald would have gone to the highest bidder. 
To the second bold part:
Everyone else is fair game, but hands off of Allen?

What a joke. 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Dopey said:

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Pegula outbidding Bon Jovi and Trump is the reason we’re not going anywhere. We would be in Toronto if Bon Jovi had the team and Donald would have gone to the highest bidder. 
To the second bold part:
Everyone else is fair game, but hands off of Allen?

What a joke. 

No one is saying Allen is immune to criticism.  He needs to cut down on interceptions as an example.  But to criticize him based on nebulous writings from a guy who admitted he lied about Diggs, or to deliberately misconstrue what is said in interviews to somehow say Allen is out of shape or lazy,  is ridiculous.

[FireChans]

There’s something ironic about using a phrase that was notably used to defend Nixon from “unfair” media coverage in this context. 
 

Something like, “yeah, the last time all those nattering nabobs were negative, the sitting President was impeached, so what do they know?” 
 

@oldmanfan

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

There’s something ironic about using a phrase that was notably used to defend Nixon from “unfair” media coverage in this context. 
 

Something like, “yeah, the last time all those nattering nabobs were negative, the sitting President was impeached, so what do they know?” 
 

@oldmanfan

I was in college during Watergate.  Weird times to be sure, but back then when push came to shove people put the country first.

[Beck Water]

5 minutes ago, Dopey said:

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Pegula outbidding Bon Jovi and Trump is the reason we’re not going anywhere. We would be in Toronto if Bon Jovi had the team and Donald would have gone to the highest bidder. 
To the second bold part:
Everyone else is fair game, but hands off of Allen?

What a joke. 

 

Yeah, I don't go with the "Bills fans should never complain" bit.

 

What I don't like is when people distort something and run with it, ie ""yeah" to "big film watcher?" and "I don't overwatch film" becomes "Josh said he's not a big film watcher".  "Don't do really anything" (as far as strength training) before OTA (April 17th).  "Used to throw and work out 4x week like OTA all off season, still throw a little bit, work out a little bit" becomes "Josh said he doesn't work out all off season" and "Josh said he doesn't lift weights".  Josh not talking about training with Palmer or Flaherty becomes "Josh no longer trains with him".

 

Anything accurate and reality based is fair game IMHO.  And who knows, maybe Josh should be doing more than whatever he is; I dunno.

[Dopey]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

No one is saying Allen is immune to criticism.  He needs to cut down on interceptions as an example.  But to criticize him based on nebulous writings from a guy who admitted he lied about Diggs, or to deliberately misconstrue what is said in interviews to somehow say Allen is out of shape or lazy,  is ridiculous.

Hey, I like you as a poster. I was responding to someone else regarding  Allen and his standing here and being above criticism because he “saved “ the Bills.