Nattering nabobs of negativism

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, DrPJax said:

Hey buddy, good to see you post prior to the season. You are always a very knowledgeable, and realistic fan and i always enjoy you in the shout box.  I was just watching SIMS and FLORIOS podcast about their final predictions of the AFC EAST. 

 

     Surprisingly, BOTH PREDICTED THE BILLS to finish THIRD OR FOURTH  in the division. Sims has always been extremely pro ALLEN.  BOTH stated they see turmoil on the team based on DIGGS and the poor preseason play.  They cited the entire divisions very difficult schedule making for a rough year.  However, they both felt the team , by proxy BEANE, has not done enough, especially offensively by not adding other playmakers ( like Hopkins, Cook, despite drafting Kincaid etc.   BTW their words not mine) and again just expect JOSH  to be Superman and overcome talent deficiencies.  They felt both the JETS & FINS have great rosters now. They cited aging players like VON  etc as a weakness that could go either way , but needs addressing. They went as far to say they both expect the BILLS to miss the playoffs and FLORIO barely contained himself from saying the PATS would overtake the BILLLS for third place , but felt he couldn’t go that far to formally say that. 

 

        Florio did say if the BILLS miss the playoffs, he expects big and sweeping changes in the organization. They really feel the PROCESS/ BEANE have dropped the ball and so far missed the SB window during this time, implying they have not won it all with a great franchise QB unlike the success the chiefs and even the success the Bengals have had (my summary from their prior feelings about Mahomes/burrows.  Again, should the BILLS strugggle , they believe changes WILL happen. This is a big change from prior years, esp for SIMS, but he really sees them as not making the playoffs. 

 

     Having followed the BILLS since ‘63 , i watched them do poorly in the preseason LEVY years, then do well. Mcd is not like LEVY, he usually expects good effort /performances , yet i never felt the preseason  mattered greatly to him, but still more than it meant to Levy. However , coming off last season where  despite wins, IMHO there were big issues developing and it culminated with CINCY.  The Steelers preseason game was abysmal , the last preseason game the first team O looked ok but against a very developing BEARS team.

      Something just feels different when guys like SIMS, who is pretty tied in and knowledgeable , is pointing out it feels like this front office just doesn’t get it with needing to provide proven offensive talent around JOSH.  Predicting his BOY BLUE to miss them playoffs is a big change.   I think it comes down to Dorsey’s development, and JOSH finally proving he can take the int/turnover issue seriously and be willing to take short open throws ( which i am not convinced he will ever accept as a premise based on his past years of missing very open short routes)    If they perform offensively similarly to the final part of last year, those bad predictions could very well come true. 

 

     Just wondered what you thought; are you surprised someone like SIMS and Florio think the beane /mcd team could be in trouble, despite extensions, with a missed playoff season?  Surprised they see the roster with some very significant weaknesses ( have to admit I’m not sure Von. White ,Hyde, poyer are still the same game changers they were), esp compared to the jets/fins ?  

     I’m really not sure what to expect , but i do feel mcd is coaching for his BILLS future. Should they have any gaffs like 13 sec again ( 10 players for first play in Pitt is a red flag for a vet coach /staff imo with 12 penalties as well), an owner cant  keep wasting a talent like ALLEN, and missing the playoffs should be a changing point. I thought McD could be a TOMLIN like coach , but you have to get there at least and win one sometime or that is a mute comparison. 

 

      I think we will get an indication pretty quickly. This team was mentally out of the Cincy game and unfortunately , this franchise has never won a Lombardi, and they have experienced blowing games in the playoffs where  they had leads and looked to be in control. IMO, they need to prove mentally they are past last years collapse. It seems concerning that insiders ( I WAS REALLY SHOCKED SIMS PICKED THEM 3RD in division) are actually stating there is something not right , some  behind the scene real issues holding this team back. It’s speculation/opinion, but is very pervasive this year.  When you see younger coaches of the EAGLES/ BENGALs having achieved further team goals than mcd/beane , it’s a fair question if they have a philosophy that could actually bring a SB to Buffalo. Here’s hoping we somehow pull out a win against the jets to quiet the press.  But , hey , it’s just football , and it’s just good entertainment , not life affecting issues.  More importantly, hoping you are well and you have an enjoyable season watching!

A lot to dissect here.  I am a bit surprised by Sims, but not Florio.  Florio says things to get attention in my opinion, and doesn’t know that much about football.

 

Criticism about not adding to help Josh seems unjustified to me.  This off season Beane addressed weakness in the O line interior with McGovern and Torrence.  Addressed pass catching with Kincaid Sheffield, and Hardy.  The RB position is stronger given two proven veterans have been added.  So I don’t get Sims there.  If he is saying we need another star WR I would say if we got one then that person would fight with Diggs for throws, and then how would Diggs react?  Plus people tend to ignore Davis was playing hurt most of the year. Our O should be better, the keys being Dorsey’s play calling and Allen spreading the ball around and taking easier throws.

 

On defense guys are getting older but O don’t see a huge drop off this year.  Guys will be replaced over the next couple years though like Hyde and others.  The big thing on D will be McD; I expect the D to be more aggressive than what we saw with Frazier.

 

I am bored with all the speculation about the team supposedly having interpersonal issues, Diggs having issues, etc.  To me it’s just hot air.  Any pro athlete is extremely competitive or they would never reach professional level.  Last year the team dealt with issues that I’ve never seen other teams deal with such as Knox’s brother, Von’s injury, blizzards, and of course Damar.    And it caught up in the Bengals playoff loss.  In the interviews with guys afterward they basically said they ran out of gas.

 

My prediction is we finish second in the division to the Jets; they each go 10-7 but Jets win the tiebreaker.  The Fish do not scare me at all as long as Tua is their QB.  And the Patriots roster simply does not match the Bills.  I suppose it’s possible the Bills crater but very unlikely.

 

One last thing.  At some point McD will get fired. Likely Beane will as well.  Because that’s how pro football works.  But I think they win one before that happens, hopefully this year.

 

[vincec]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:41 AM, DrPJax said:

Hey buddy, good to see you post prior to the season. You are always a very knowledgeable, and realistic fan and i always enjoy you in the shout box.  I was just watching SIMS and FLORIOS podcast about their final predictions of the AFC EAST. 

 

     Surprisingly, BOTH PREDICTED THE BILLS to finish THIRD OR FOURTH  in the division. Sims has always been extremely pro ALLEN.  BOTH stated they see turmoil on the team based on DIGGS and the poor preseason play.  They cited the entire divisions very difficult schedule making for a rough year.  However, they both felt the team , by proxy BEANE, has not done enough, especially offensively by not adding other playmakers ( like Hopkins, Cook, despite drafting Kincaid etc.   BTW their words not mine) and again just expect JOSH  to be Superman and overcome talent deficiencies.  They felt both the JETS & FINS have great rosters now. They cited aging players like VON  etc as a weakness that could go either way , but needs addressing. They went as far to say they both expect the BILLS to miss the playoffs and FLORIO barely contained himself from saying the PATS would overtake the BILLLS for third place , but felt he couldn’t go that far to formally say that. 

 

        Florio did say if the BILLS miss the playoffs, he expects big and sweeping changes in the organization. They really feel the PROCESS/ BEANE have dropped the ball and so far missed the SB window during this time, implying they have not won it all with a great franchise QB unlike the success the chiefs and even the success the Bengals have had (my summary from their prior feelings about Mahomes/burrows.  Again, should the BILLS strugggle , they believe changes WILL happen. This is a big change from prior years, esp for SIMS, but he really sees them as not making the playoffs. 

 

     Having followed the BILLS since ‘63 , i watched them do poorly in the preseason LEVY years, then do well. Mcd is not like LEVY, he usually expects good effort /performances , yet i never felt the preseason  mattered greatly to him, but still more than it meant to Levy. However , coming off last season where  despite wins, IMHO there were big issues developing and it culminated with CINCY.  The Steelers preseason game was abysmal , the last preseason game the first team O looked ok but against a very developing BEARS team.

      Something just feels different when guys like SIMS, who is pretty tied in and knowledgeable , is pointing out it feels like this front office just doesn’t get it with needing to provide proven offensive talent around JOSH.  Predicting his BOY BLUE to miss them playoffs is a big change.   I think it comes down to Dorsey’s development, and JOSH finally proving he can take the int/turnover issue seriously and be willing to take short open throws ( which i am not convinced he will ever accept as a premise based on his past years of missing very open short routes)    If they perform offensively similarly to the final part of last year, those bad predictions could very well come true. 

 

     Just wondered what you thought; are you surprised someone like SIMS and Florio think the beane /mcd team could be in trouble, despite extensions, with a missed playoff season?  Surprised they see the roster with some very significant weaknesses ( have to admit I’m not sure Von. White ,Hyde, poyer are still the same game changers they were), esp compared to the jets/fins ?  

     I’m really not sure what to expect , but i do feel mcd is coaching for his BILLS future. Should they have any gaffs like 13 sec again ( 10 players for first play in Pitt is a red flag for a vet coach /staff imo with 12 penalties as well), an owner cant  keep wasting a talent like ALLEN, and missing the playoffs should be a changing point. I thought McD could be a TOMLIN like coach , but you have to get there at least and win one sometime or that is a mute comparison. 

 

      I think we will get an indication pretty quickly. This team was mentally out of the Cincy game and unfortunately , this franchise has never won a Lombardi, and they have experienced blowing games in the playoffs where  they had leads and looked to be in control. IMO, they need to prove mentally they are past last years collapse. It seems concerning that insiders ( I WAS REALLY SHOCKED SIMS PICKED THEM 3RD in division) are actually stating there is something not right , some  behind the scene real issues holding this team back. It’s speculation/opinion, but is very pervasive this year.  When you see younger coaches of the EAGLES/ BENGALs having achieved further team goals than mcd/beane , it’s a fair question if they have a philosophy that could actually bring a SB to Buffalo. Here’s hoping we somehow pull out a win against the jets to quiet the press.  But , hey , it’s just football , and it’s just good entertainment , not life affecting issues.  More importantly, hoping you are well and you have an enjoyable season watching!

Good to hear from you too!

 

IMO, ...

I can see the Bills finishing third as a possibility, although I don't think it's likely. No way they finish below the Patriots. I think the issue is that there are a lot of good teams in the AFCE now and the Bills play a really tough schedule. There may also be an emotional let down after failing to reach the Super Bowl the past three years when they had a legitimate shot to do so talent-wise. But the roster is still strong and Beane's done everything he can with the salary cap situation so I don't blame him. I think that when you reach a certain point, it just comes down to luck.

 

One subtle shift that may pay dividends is that you can see that the Bills are trying to become more physical... bringing in power RBs, interior OL, looking to play more 2 TE formations, running a more aggressive scheme on defense. To me that has been a serious weakness with the pass happy offense and cover 2 nickel happy defense that they've been playing.

 

I'm really looking forward to the opener. I think the Jets have a lot more riding on it that the Bills. If the Bills beat the Jets, in NY, on 9/11, with all the Jets off season hype, it will deal such a serious blow to the Jets psyche that it may derail their entire season. lol.

Edited September 7, 2023 by vincec

[DrPJax]

1 minute ago, vincec said:

Good to hear from you too!

 

IMO, ...

I can see the Bills finishing third as a possibility, although I don't think it's likely. No way they finish below the Patriots. I think the issue is that there are a lot of good teams in the AFCE now and the Bills play a really tough schedule. There may also be an emotional let down after failing to reach the Super Bowl the past three years when they had a legitimate shot to do so talent-wise. But the roster is still strong and Beane's done everything he can with the salary cap situation so I don't really blame him. I think that when you reach a certain point, it just comes down to luck.

 

One subtle shift that may pay dividends is that you can see that the Bills are trying to become more physical... bringing in power RBs, interior OL, looking to play more 2 TE formations, running a more aggressive scheme on defense. To me that has been a serious weakness with the pass happy offense and cover 2 nickel happy defense that they've been playing.

 

I'm really looking forward to the opener. I think the Jets have a lot more riding on it that the Bills. If the Bills beat the Jets, in NY, on 9/11, with all the Jets off season hype, it will deal such a serious blow to the Jets psyche that it may derail their entire season. lol.

     Great point about the team needing to be more physical.  I appreciate SIMS/ FLORIO ; they are knowledgeable as any national press is concerning the BILLS, imho.  Unfortunately i just watched their season opener predictions and both picked the BILLS to lose straight up Monday. It’s a tough opener).  Buffalo has had some history of limiting RODGERS so offensively i think if we avoid one of the inexplicable blowouts that mcd’s teams have occasionally thrown out there ( hey , i know it was preseason, but that first team o /d was abysmal and embarrassing against the STEELERS ,and inexplicable once again). SIMS pointed to the JETS  essentially having 2 starting d lines , and we all know o lines take time to gel, so this is a challenging opener in NY, 9/11 being remembered, prime time etc.  

 

   Florio described the BILLS as a Jenga tower,,wobbly where things could tumble out of control. I also caught PETE PRISCO tonight ( he started in the Jax market and i met him at a bar many years ago  where i struck up a conversation w his GF/ now wife, waiting to be served. Told her i liked his work , and she took me over to meet him  and we ended up having a few drinks while talking football. Really, really nice guy, and he feels people are sleeping on the BILLS ) who picked the BILLS  this week. I prefer PETE’S pick , but florio is usually pretty linked in as an insider , and he / sims kept dwelling on wondering if the BILLs have done enough to keep up with the changing talent in the division. Florio believes thE DIGGS strange  issues will recur especially w any early adversity. Sims has been a big Allen / bills guy and he is voicing real  concern over the support around ALLEN     He doesn’t seem to think this roster has enough proven offensive talent.; surprising after his prior years being almost fan like. 

 

    I agree , the RB room looks better , esp behind COOK. It comes down to that o line gelling tho as cook has to have holes being he is more elusive and not great breaking tackles. I hope McGovern’s knee  is ok , TORRANCE looks legit, and brown seems to be a question medically imo ( who as a 6’ 8’  guy with back issues, in  my 42 years in medicine, i cant honestly remember a case  where  mechanical LOW back issues ever disappeared  with time ), Dawkins had huge weight fluctuations ( went up over 375 before dropping 40 lbs on what he described as something akin to a very  low cal diet ,which  is a little concerning given the reality of  possible  muscle breakdown in the process) are part of  the Jenga metaphor that i hope stays upright to protect JOSH !   The O LINE potential looks better than last year  , yet rough place to start that gelling. They sure didn’t look great in Pittsburgh but hopefully that was a preseason anomaly. That and the unexpected Cincy collapse have left questions that only playing well  in the opener can shut down. 

 

       More than prior years,    I feel like its a prove it to me mindset this year with mcd/ beane, and with JOSH.  Going into this year with  HOPEFULLY an improved receiving corp (great add with Kincaid ,but behind DAVIS there is a group of unproven guys who we have to HOPE actually emerge).   My main question revolves around  DORSEY proving he can be creative enough to stop the big 3rd quarter lulls and use the 12 personnel sets effectively.  I would love to see JOSH actually be ok taking what D’s give and him not repeating  last years red zone  turnover issues. He always states “i cant do that “ , yet he kept repeating  mental errors.

Hoping Dorsey acts like more than a colleague ,  but actually more like DABOLL,  and demands  more from  josh regarding his mental choices and prep. . He is a generational talent who makes unbelievable throws, but those spectacular throws  cant be negated by careless ints.   The first week is going to potentially be a low scoring , tight game. It’s Dorsey  who has to help josh reach his greatness; he can’t be passive about addressing mental mistakes like it seemed last year. Daboll  is missed more than i expected. ( meanwhile Reid and Mahomes keep looking great on offense with great coaching of avg receivers. Mahomes rarely makes mental mistakes, but had a pick 6 that wasn’t his fault as I’m watching. Josh could do well emulating that as the turnovers  are his only achilles heel )

 

    My big hope is that they don’t suffer from bad luck  injuries or guys just finally  aging.    Imo , WHITE, MILLER, PHILLIPS, HYDE, POYER are really at points where they could be great or time could  finally overcome them. Hyde had the cervical issue and those don’t usually happen as isolated events and hearing he had some back issues already is another “ Jenga” type issue. Let’s hope they have one last big run left as a group, as they have been great to cheer for.  

     I cant fully understand letting the MLB issue come down to hoping a guy who missed the entire preseason be the starter , while finally grabbing a guy to plug in after cuts. He may be the guy , but I wouldn’t be too shocked if the jets have success running against that under sized LB group before he gets plugged in.  It’s just some strange moves like this that at times raise questions about mcd/ beane and their roster choices; they DID make a move , but it took until right before the first week on a known area with no clear starter.   Here’s also hoping the DL can actually get a pass rush, unlike how last year played out , prior to VON. I think Floyd little is a critical pick up , and i hope he and GROOT finally produce a consistent. pass rush. Pressures are ok , but you need to get some sacks and not give up those third and longs teams converted so often last year. 

 

its exciting to have the season back; here’s to them finally having a year where they don’t beat themselves, coaching comes together, and somehow the crazy tough reg season schedule doesn’t take a toll. I think we can win the opener , but only if we have 1 or less turnovers or win the T O  battle. It would be great to open with a win , just to dampen that RODGERS hype and smugness.   I really like your point about them lacking physicality previously, and will be looking for a change. Will prob see you in the shout box to say hello. Hope it’s a good start buddy! 

 

 

 

 

 

[What a Tuel]

On 9/4/2023 at 3:12 PM, Lfod said:

I think they had so many below average years as fans that they are stuck in their ways of just being negative. 

 

I think its rather the negative fans exist in every fanbase. This one's fans are just emboldened because of our lack of a super bowl and they think they are some accurate predictor of the teams chances when in reality they aren't unique or foretellers. There are thousands just like them on every other forum. Just take a look at the chiefs forums. Tons of negative fans prior to winning the super bowl and after tonights loss, i guarantee there are tons lamenting the decisions of the org.

 

Every fan processes in their own way, and its fair to be annoyed at the negativity the same as they can be annoyed at the excessive positivity. But when push comes to shove, I'd rather be positive and root for my team than pretend I'm the Nostradamus of football and play "told you so" all year long.

[theRalph]

It’s DROUGHT EFFECTS affecting Debbie Downers that are local and cannot escape the news.

Edited September 8, 2023 by theRalph