oldmanfan Posted September 4, 2023 Author Posted September 4, 2023 1 hour ago, PBF81 said: OP sounds like an embellished tantrum. Quite honestly, what's the problem with being critical on some aspects of one's own team. Every team's fans are when things don't go perfectly, and they've been far from perfect for us. Being critical doesn't mean that someone isn't a fan. What's very noticeable is that there are "sponsored" or "endorsed" criticisms, and it's fine to agree with those, but heaven forbid one steps outside of that box. LOL And what, the glaring hole we have at MLB isn't an issue? We can discuss it nine ways to Sunday and we can make excuses for it, which is what the OP did, but that doesn't alleviate the issue. Same for RT. For years now it's been the WRs, and criticizing them has been fine and dandy, but little else. LOL And this bickering before things even unfold. So what, people can state their expectations, what's the harm. Honestly, someone reads a non-favorable viewpoint that doesn't agree with their own and loses their mind? LOL Seems like a them problem to me. Let the season play out. As I've said numberous times, should we win a Championship this season, or any season, I don't see a single person that comes to this forum, sitting at home sulking upon the conclusion of the Super Bowl and the following week, posting anything but rejoicing posts here. This place is funny. The game day threads, a week away, are an absolute hoot!! Posters need monitoring and need to be kept away from matches. Tantrum? No. Just struggling to understand why some seek out reasons to be negative about the team they root for. Criticism is one thing. Taking a columnist’s word as evidence Josh doesn’t work hard, after the same guy admitted he made up all the stuff about Diggs? Claiming Josh does not watch film when he told MacAfee he does? Claiming he doesn’t work as hard as other guys when you have no clue of anyone’s work ethic? That isn’t criticism. That is willfully trying to grasp at negative straws. I just raise the question of why. I could not agree more with letting the season play out. When there is reason to criticize we will. When there is reason to praise, we will. One would hope. 1 1 Quote
Beck Water Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 2 hours ago, PBF81 said: For years now it's been the WRs, and criticizing them has been fine and dandy, but little else. LOL I don't think we're reading the same board. Quote
PBF81 Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Tantrum? No. Just struggling to understand why some seek out reasons to be negative about the team they root for. Criticism is one thing. Taking a columnist’s word as evidence Josh doesn’t work hard, after the same guy admitted he made up all the stuff about Diggs? Claiming Josh does not watch film when he told MacAfee he does? Claiming he doesn’t work as hard as other guys when you have no clue of anyone’s work ethic? That isn’t criticism. That is willfully trying to grasp at negative straws. I just raise the question of why. I could not agree more with letting the season play out. When there is reason to criticize we will. When there is reason to praise, we will. One would hope. I don't understand why stuff like that bothers you. I read stuff that I don't agree with all the time, I don't let it get to me. Much of the time I ignore it and say nothing. It's not worth all that, particularly if it gets to you. Perhaps ask yourself why and try to not let it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Quote
oldmanfan Posted September 4, 2023 Author Posted September 4, 2023 7 hours ago, PBF81 said: I don't understand why stuff like that bothers you. I read stuff that I don't agree with all the time, I don't let it get to me. Much of the time I ignore it and say nothing. It's not worth all that, particularly if it gets to you. Perhaps ask yourself why and try to not let it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I note you did not answer the question I posed. Quote
PBF81 Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: I note you did not answer the question I posed. Since you ask and put the onus for comment on me ... I didn't see any questions. What, Tantrum? That one? Otherwise I'll address that last post and your OP. To start, above you cite the author of the piece. But here's your original post parsed. You're clearly not referring to the author of the piece. 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: I struggle to understand this fan base sometimes. Many seem to actively search for ways to downplay the team’s fortunes and/or denigrate specific players, management and such. Examples include: You are calling out our fan base, not the author. 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: 1. Ragging on for years on Edmunds, then as soon as he leaves in free agency ragging on Beane for not resigning or replacing him. Or, not for planning for the departure of Edmunds. Isn't that a valid criticism? I think so. 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: 2. Ragging on Beane for not having a veteran guy behind Brown at RT, then ragging on him because the guy he got retired (as if Beane should be Nostradamus) then ragging on getting Ifedi as if we were going to get an All Pro. Again, tantrum. Boo hoo. Allen does the job of 80% of the offense and Beane's a genius. But heaven forbid anyone criticizes the shoddy OL we've had for six seasons runnning now, never above average. Or all of the DL-men we've drafted without getting a single impact-player much less a ringer. I think that's a very valid criticism too. And Brandon Shell's hardly Will Wolford. Either way, going back to the prior comment, our OL has been below average now on the entirety of McBeane's watch. It's hardly as if Beane hasn't had other opportunities to rectify the situation. We haven't had a single above-average RT here the entire time. On top of that, this guy you imply was the answer otherwise, was signed to a 1-year deal for just over a million. Clearly he isn't the top of his game at 31 either, and to assume he'd have been the answer is ridiculous. Otherwise, one would think that having spoken to him at length Beane should have at least had an inkling of a clue that he may not be around much longer. Again, the 1-year contract notwithstanding. 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: There are many such examples. But the last 24 hours or so have taken the cake, because who are we negative on now? Josh Allen. And why? Mainly because of two articles from the gasbag known as Jason Whitlock, the first of which he said was a lie, then the second of which he claims Josh doesn’t work hard enough and it’s supposedly well known. Throw in an interview with MacAfee where Josh specifically states he watches a lot of film but qualifies what he takes from it, and all of a sudden it’s Josh that is why the Bills haven’t won a Lombardi. It’s Josh who drinks too much (one incident with Kyle Allen), Josh who doesn’t work out, Josh who doesn’t spend enough time on football in the off-season (put your TV on and measure in minutes how long till you see Mahomes in a commercial). Or Josh impregnating waitresses, which no reputable news source has validated. That reads like a tantrum to me. It's also not aimed at the guy making the claims. 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: All this leads me to ask: what the hell is wrong with some people around here? I am not saying Josh can’t improve. He needs to continue learning to take the short routes, get the ball out quicker, etc. but to claim he is now somehow the problem, that it’s his work ethic, that as one person said here that they don’t like Josh personally as if he actually has ever met the guy? Come on. That first bolded part reads tantrumatic to me. Otherwise, he's a QB in the NFL, a celebrity figure. Things get said about everyone with that status, some true, much not. But question back to you, what made you wake up and get so angry about it? Why? Why let it bother you. It surely doesn't bother Josh, why should it bother you? Just let it roll off your sleeve. But to impugn fans merely critical of some things that you may not agree with is not the way to go. You even imply above that some things we can complain about. There's plenty to be critical of on the coaching side of the tracks as well as Beane's performance. When the number one thing people say is about a "winning culture," honestly. Which team that wins regularly does not have a winning culture? Any? One thing that never ceases to amaze me is how it's perfectly legit to criticize Gabe Davis when he played through a significant injury all season last year and still put up great numbers for a #2. (I know that anyone reading that that is critical of Davis is already getting steamed up) But here are the facts, while injured, ... Davis put up more yards than 9 #1 WRs in this league last season. Davis put up more TDs than 20 #1 WRs in this league last season. Davis was 5th in Yards for #2 WRs last season. Davis was 7th in TDs for #2 WRs last season. Yet, a majority here seem to want him shipped out. Talk about tantrums. They take some drops stat, ignore the rest, despite the fact that his drops weren't the primary reason for any loss. 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: I have thought for quite a long time there are folks on this board that really want the Bills to lose so they can somehow crow on a message board that they were right. I think some of the stuff we’re seeing is some bizarre defense mechanism people throw up as a guard should the Bills not win it all. Me? I’ve been a fan since 1960 when I was 5 years old. I will do as I’ve always done, enter the season with optimism and then see how things go. Offer praise when merited as well as criticism when merited. But to actively seek out reasons for negativism, even to the point of believing nonsensical crap to do so? I don’t get it. Really? You don't see that as a tantrum of sorts? Who here really wants the team not to win a Championship? Which posters will be sitting at home pouting and drowning their sorrows in bourbon if we win the Super Bowl this year? These insinuations are childish. Discussing the team is one thing, criticizing the aspects that are not perfect or need significant improvement/upgrade should certainly be topics that are well within the realm of reasonable discussion. So why do so many people want to shut it down? Why are our fans so critical of a well above-average #2 WR in the league? Maybe they're the problem? I mean after all, we have so many fans that simply don't want the team to improve. You might think that they don't want us to win because they're constantly glancing over key issues and trying to make it so that the team doesn't need to improve to get us there. They hate the team. See how easy it is to impugn the motives of people. Not that I'm serious, just illustrating a point. Of course we all enter the season with optimism to see how things go. The biggest ironies of all involve those here that enter the season with rose-colored glasses and then regularly in the game day threads or later in the season if things don't go right, want to burn down OBD, hang the coaches and GM in effigy, complain about Pegula, ... you know, more tantrums. LOL Anyway, since you solicited a response. Honestly brother, let the media BS roll off your sleeves. Don't give yourself an aneurysm. Quote
oldmanfan Posted September 4, 2023 Author Posted September 4, 2023 10 minutes ago, PBF81 said: Since you ask and put the onus for comment on me ... I didn't see any questions. What, Tantrum? That one? Otherwise I'll address that last post and your OP. To start, above you cite the author of the piece. But here's your original post parsed. You're clearly not referring to the author of the piece. You are calling out our fan base, not the author. Or, not for planning for the departure of Edmunds. Isn't that a valid criticism? I think so. Again, tantrum. Boo hoo. Allen does the job of 80% of the offense and Beane's a genius. But heaven forbid anyone criticizes the shoddy OL we've had for six seasons runnning now, never above average. Or all of the DL-men we've drafted without getting a single impact-player much less a ringer. I think that's a very valid criticism too. And Brandon Shell's hardly Will Wolford. Either way, going back to the prior comment, our OL has been below average now on the entirety of McBeane's watch. It's hardly as if Beane hasn't had other opportunities to rectify the situation. We haven't had a single above-average RT here the entire time. On top of that, this guy you imply was the answer otherwise, was signed to a 1-year deal for just over a million. Clearly he isn't the top of his game at 31 either, and to assume he'd have been the answer is ridiculous. Otherwise, one would think that having spoken to him at length Beane should have at least had an inkling of a clue that he may not be around much longer. Again, the 1-year contract notwithstanding. That reads like a tantrum to me. It's also not aimed at the guy making the claims. That first bolded part reads tantrumatic to me. Otherwise, he's a QB in the NFL, a celebrity figure. Things get said about everyone with that status, some true, much not. But question back to you, what made you wake up and get so angry about it? Why? Why let it bother you. It surely doesn't bother Josh, why should it bother you? Just let it roll off your sleeve. But to impugn fans merely critical of some things that you may not agree with is not the way to go. You even imply above that some things we can complain about. There's plenty to be critical of on the coaching side of the tracks as well as Beane's performance. When the number one thing people say is about a "winning culture," honestly. Which team that wins regularly does not have a winning culture? Any? One thing that never ceases to amaze me is how it's perfectly legit to criticize Gabe Davis when he played through a significant injury all season last year and still put up great numbers for a #2. (I know that anyone reading that that is critical of Davis is already getting steamed up) But here are the facts, while injured, ... Davis put up more yards than 9 #1 WRs in this league last season. Davis put up more TDs than 20 #1 WRs in this league last season. Davis was 5th in Yards for #2 WRs last season. Davis was 7th in TDs for #2 WRs last season. Yet, a majority here seem to want him shipped out. Talk about tantrums. They take some drops stat, ignore the rest, despite the fact that his drops weren't the primary reason for any loss. Really? You don't see that as a tantrum of sorts? Who here really wants the team not to win a Championship? Which posters will be sitting at home pouting and drowning their sorrows in bourbon if we win the Super Bowl this year? These insinuations are childish. Discussing the team is one thing, criticizing the aspects that are not perfect or need significant improvement/upgrade should certainly be topics that are well within the realm of reasonable discussion. So why do so many people want to shut it down? Why are our fans so critical of a well above-average #2 WR in the league? Maybe they're the problem? I mean after all, we have so many fans that simply don't want the team to improve. You might think that they don't want us to win because they're constantly glancing over key issues and trying to make it so that the team doesn't need to improve to get us there. They hate the team. See how easy it is to impugn the motives of people. Not that I'm serious, just illustrating a point. Of course we all enter the season with optimism to see how things go. The biggest ironies of all involve those here that enter the season with rose-colored glasses and then regularly in the game day threads or later in the season if things don't go right, want to burn down OBD, hang the coaches and GM in effigy, complain about Pegula, ... you know, more tantrums. LOL Anyway, since you solicited a response. Honestly brother, let the media BS roll off your sleeves. Don't give yourself an aneurysm. All this to not answer my question. Which is: why do some feel they have to be consistently negative about the team they purport to be fans of to the point that they make things up to be negative over? Quote
Fan in Chicago Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 23 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Mainly the bother is, if he obsessed like he is accused of, like Brady and manning did, combined with his athletic talent, he’d be a 70% passer, he’d diagnose more presnap and frankly the bills would have Lombardi’s. A simple question - How would that have prevented the 13 second collapse? He left the field with the lead. It is very very likely the Bills would have won the SuperBowl that year. How would such as obsession, as you are advocating, have prevented that collapse? Do not deflect this question as I am specifically asking in response to your judgement about Josh's offseason preparation compared to Brady's. Quote
benderbender Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 Oh Gatekeepers of fandom, please instruct me how to fan. Can't point out problems, only drink kool aid. The irony is that if we support the regime lockstep, then we HAVE to believe that Edmunds either couldn't be resigned or wasn't worth it. The mental gymnastics required to be both a Edmunds fanboy AND true McBeane believer could be harnessed as renewable energy to power the world. 3 2 Quote
oldmanfan Posted September 4, 2023 Author Posted September 4, 2023 14 minutes ago, benderbender said: Oh Gatekeepers of fandom, please instruct me how to fan. Can't point out problems, only drink kool aid. The irony is that if we support the regime lockstep, then we HAVE to believe that Edmunds either couldn't be resigned or wasn't worth it. The mental gymnastics required to be both a Edmunds fanboy AND true McBeane believer could be harnessed as renewable energy to power the world. I can see you don’t read. Criticism is one thing. We are all critical at times of what the team does. But being negative just for the sake of being negative is different. The Edmunds example was used because some of the same people wanting Edmunds gone are now the same people saying we haven’t replaced him adequately. That is bizarre. And the stuff about believing junk from Whitlock about Josh not working hard enough when that author admitted making things up about Diggs - why would some use that to attack Allen? Be a fan however you want. My question is simple, and it’s one that no one has answered. Why? What satisfaction does one gain as a fan by being persistently negative to the point that one seeks out reasons to be negative, regardless of whether such reasons have any validity? 1 Quote
PBF81 Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 (edited) 50 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: All this to not answer my question. Which is: why do some feel they have to be consistently negative about the team they purport to be fans of to the point that they make things up to be negative over? For starters, who is "constantly negative?" You sure that isn't in your head living rent free? I think that you're extrapolating some negative vibes on certain things and assuming that anyone that agrees with the 'complaint du jour' always posts negative. I see zero evidence for that. Again, which fan that posts here regularly is going to be disappointed, as you stated with fans wanting us to lose, should we win a Championship? Sounds like a you problem. Noticed anyone sulking at games when we make a great big play have ya? Seen people getting upset in the game-day threads when we score a TD or make a big play? It seems like a tantrum to me to categorically label anyone that posts here, who are all obviously fans, as "constantly posting negatively" when even the most critical fans that post here are positive and optimistic about certain things. As if we have no weaknesses or issues. Again, can you explain to me why complaining and griping about Davis is so approved here, (and what's your position on that out of curiosity?), when as I stated, he's posted better numbers than a good number of #1 WRs and is well above-average among #2s WRs? Is that positive? I'll tell you what gets old, is having threads constantly calling out our own fanbase for simply harboring criticisms of team play. And why people seem to take that so personally seems to be a them problem. And honestly, whatever happened to simply letting things that you don't disagree with roll off your sleeve. That's what I do. Who cares. I don't give it a second thought and sometimes I laugh it off. Edited September 4, 2023 by PBF81 1 Quote
oldmanfan Posted September 4, 2023 Author Posted September 4, 2023 Just now, PBF81 said: For starters, who is "constantly negative?" You sure that isn't in your head living rent free? I think that you're extrapolating some negative vibes on certain things and assuming that anyone that agrees with the 'complaint du jour' always posts negative. I see zero evidence for that. Again, which fan that posts here regularly is going to be disappointed, as you stated with fans wanting us to lose, should we win a Championship? Sounds like a you problem. Noticed anyone sulking at games when we make a great big play have ya? Seen people getting upset in the game-day threads when we score a TD or make a big play? It seems like a tantrum to me to categorically label anyone that posts here, who are all obviously fans, as "constantly posting negatively" when even the most critical fans that post here are positive and optimistic about certain things. As if we have no weaknesses or issues. Again, can you explain to me why complaining and griping about Davis is so approved here, (and what's your position on that out of curiosity?), when as I stated, he's posted better numbers than a good number of #1 WRs and is well above-average among #2s WRs? Is that positive? I'll tell you what gets old, is having threads constantly calling out our own fanbase for simply harboring criticisms of team play. And why people seem to take that so personally seems to be a them problem. Do you really have to have those who are consistently negative spelled out? Anyone on this board knows them. And you have yet to offer an answer as to why. What does a fan get out of being consistently negative? It is certainly not unique to the Bills I’m sure, but it just interests me as a general aspect of the human psyche. Two other things. Sadly, I do think when the Bills win the Lombardi there will be posts about how either they should have won it easier, or that they were lucky, or that they’ll fall apart the next year. Second, I think Davis will have a better year because he played with a bad ankle last year, but he can do a better job making the easy catch consistently. 1 1 Quote
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Fan in Chicago said: A simple question - How would that have prevented the 13 second collapse? He left the field with the lead. It is very very likely the Bills would have won the SuperBowl that year. How would such as obsession, as you are advocating, have prevented that collapse? Do not deflect this question as I am specifically asking in response to your judgement about Josh's offseason preparation compared to Brady's. this is exactly a great point.. Objective truth, he played great that game and Mahomes played better. The bills punted 4 times to chiefs 2. If your best player makes a few more plays, and have a bigger lead maybe the rest of the debacle never happens. They were down two scores in the third quarter. Can’t do that vs that chiefs team and expect to win, especially when your defense is holding up. 1 Quote
CincyBillsFan Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 8 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: this is exactly a great point.. Objective truth, he played great that game and Mahomes played better. The bills punted 4 times to chiefs 2. If your best player makes a few more plays, and have a bigger lead maybe the rest of the debacle never happens. They were down two scores in the third quarter. Can’t do that vs that chiefs team and expect to win, especially when your defense is holding up. Judas Priest you just entered the Twilight Zone. The play after the Chiefs went up by 2 scores in the 3rd quarter Allen, ignoring the easier and safer 15 yard completion to Knox, throws a 75 yard TD pass to Davis to make it a came and rattle the Chiefs. And somehow it's Allen fault that the Chiefs only punted twice? WTH? 2 1 Quote
bobobonators Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 On 9/2/2023 at 9:34 AM, oldmanfan said: I struggle to understand this fan base sometimes. Many seem to actively search for ways to downplay the team’s fortunes and/or denigrate specific players, management and such. Examples include: 1. Ragging on for years on Edmunds, then as soon as he leaves in free agency ragging on Beane for not resigning or replacing him. 2. Ragging on Beane for not having a veteran guy behind Brown at RT, then ragging on him because the guy he got retired (as if Beane should be Nostradamus) then ragging on getting Ifedi as if we were going to get an All Pro. There are many such examples. But the last 24 hours or so have taken the cake, because who are we negative on now? Josh Allen. And why? Mainly because of two articles from the gasbag known as Jason Whitlock, the first of which he said was a lie, then the second of which he claims Josh doesn’t work hard enough and it’s supposedly well known. Throw in an interview with MacAfee where Josh specifically states he watches a lot of film but qualifies what he takes from it, and all of a sudden it’s Josh that is why the Bills haven’t won a Lombardi. It’s Josh who drinks too much (one incident with Kyle Allen), Josh who doesn’t work out, Josh who doesn’t spend enough time on football in the off-season (put your TV on and measure in minutes how long till you see Mahomes in a commercial). Or Josh impregnating waitresses, which no reputable news source has validated. All this leads me to ask: what the hell is wrong with some people around here? I am not saying Josh can’t improve. He needs to continue learning to take the short routes, get the ball out quicker, etc. but to claim he is now somehow the problem, that it’s his work ethic, that as one person said here that they don’t like Josh personally as if he actually has ever met the guy? Come on. I have thought for quite a long time there are folks on this board that really want the Bills to lose so they can somehow crow on a message board that they were right. I think some of the stuff we’re seeing is some bizarre defense mechanism people throw up as a guard should the Bills not win it all. Me? I’ve been a fan since 1960 when I was 5 years old. I will do as I’ve always done, enter the season with optimism and then see how things go. Offer praise when merited as well as criticism when merited. But to actively seek out reasons for negativism, even to the point of believing nonsensical crap to do so? I don’t get it. 1. The internet brings out the worst in ppl. 2. Many people lead miserable lives and dont know how to appreciate the positives that surround them. One is left with no choice but to ignore them, because entertaining them will bring you down to the depths of their miserable existence too. Aint nobody got time for that! Quote
Beast Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 24 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: this is exactly a great point.. Objective truth, he played great that game and Mahomes played better. The bills punted 4 times to chiefs 2. If your best player makes a few more plays, and have a bigger lead maybe the rest of the debacle never happens. They were down two scores in the third quarter. Can’t do that vs that chiefs team and expect to win, especially when your defense is holding up. What’s up, Troll? Where’s the clown emoji when you need one? 1 Quote
ToGoGo Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 16 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said: Judas Priest you just entered the Twilight Zone. The play after the Chiefs went up by 2 scores in the 3rd quarter Allen, ignoring the easier and safer 15 yard completion to Knox, throws a 75 yard TD pass to Davis to make it a came and rattle the Chiefs. And somehow it's Allen fault that the Chiefs only punted twice? WTH? The goal posts have somehow moved from "we should've drafted Rosen" to "Allen is not doing what Mahomes/Brady/Manning would be doing right now". The more I read, I agree with the idea that some of these posters are sick. Mentally ill in some ways. Not all of them, just a few in particular. Be careful arguing with them too much, they'll drag you down into the dark place they live in, just like they're trying to drag Allen/McBeane down with them. Quote
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 1 hour ago, bobobonators said: 1. The internet brings out the worst in ppl. 2. Many people lead miserable lives and dont know how to appreciate the positives that surround them. One is left with no choice but to ignore them, because entertaining them will bring you down to the depths of their miserable existence too. Aint nobody got time for that! good point about ignore … too many folks that come to a discussion board and don’t have the emotional control to handle an actual discussion. Good to remove them from the feed. Maybe there should be a cheerleading only sub forum or something. Quote
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said: Judas Priest you just entered the Twilight Zone. The play after the Chiefs went up by 2 scores in the 3rd quarter Allen, ignoring the easier and safer 15 yard completion to Knox, throws a 75 yard TD pass to Davis to make it a came and rattle the Chiefs. And somehow it's Allen fault that the Chiefs only punted twice? WTH? Why so emotional and serious?? When you lose a close one, anything everything could have been better and might have helped change the outcome. That includes the best player on the team. Quote
K-9 Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 1 minute ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Why so emotional and serious?? When you lose a close one, anything everything could have been better and might have helped change the outcome. That includes the best player on the team. Wow! This is some groundbreaking insight here! Thank you SO MUCH for sharing your keen analysis with the rest of us. Quote
Lfod Posted September 4, 2023 Posted September 4, 2023 I think they had so many below average years as fans that they are stuck in their ways of just being negative. 2 Quote
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