Oh no, poor billionaires losing money.

[RiotAct]

19 hours ago, T&C said:

Why is a beer $12-14 at an NFL game? Or a concert... 

hell, a 24 oz. can of Molson was $15 at the Raiders game last week.

[PBF81]

21 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I'm not sure if you are serious or if you've painted yourself into a corner and are looking for a clever way out.

 

Anyway:  The Sixteenth Amendment (Amendment XVI) to the United States Constitution allows Congress to levy an income tax without apportioning it among the states on the basis of population.  The Revenue Act of 1913 reestablished a Federal Income Tax as the law of the land.

 

The United States Code is a consolidation and codification by subject matter of the general and permanent laws of the United States.   Title 26 of the US Code is the Internal Revenue Code.  Within it, Subtitle F, Chapter 75, Subchapter A (Crimes), Part 1, Sections 7201-3 lay out what the penalties are for not paying income taxes as required by law.  

 

Now that that is out of the way....why do you pay taxes if you feel you have a solid legal argument to avoid paying them?

 

That's the most superficial argument that exists.  

 

I'm not sure that this is the place for this discussion, and it's gotten away from our differences over the semantics of and loose connotations of "theft" as it applies in the original context of the general discussion.

 

But if you really want to go down this rabbit hole, and I'm more than happy to as I do it semi-regularly, we can start up in the appropriate forum.  Or via PM.  To start, the 16th was never ratified.  

 

It's also difficult to avoid discussion of the Federal Reserve when discussing this.  The vast majority have no clue that t the Federal Reserve is neither federal (it's a privately held corporation, largely owned by foreign interests) or a reserve of anything.  So why does it control our economy and national monetary policies instead of Congress.  (rhetorical) 

 

But make no mistake, the two are related.  

 

There's a reason why the Fed was created covertly within 48 hours of Christmas Day after Congress had adjourned for the holiday.  There's a reason why Wilson, from academia, not politics, whose term it was under, famously exclaimed that he had ruined our country by having allowed it.  

 

It also wasn't coincidental that the three most influential men that opposed it were in the Titanic on it's ill-fated voyage.  

 

If your truly interested in this, I would first recommend a book, but at least a great summary documentary video that's about 90 minutes or so.  

 

It makes no sense to take this up without the relevant background.  Let me know.  

 

 

[Augie]

13 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

That's the most superficial argument that exists.  

 

I'm not sure that this is the place for this discussion, and it's gotten away from our differences over the semantics of and loose connotations of "theft" as it applies in the original context of the general discussion.

 

But if you really want to go down this rabbit hole, and I'm more than happy to as I do it semi-regularly, we can start up in the appropriate forum.  Or via PM.  To start, the 16th was never ratified.  

 

It's also difficult to avoid discussion of the Federal Reserve when discussing this.  The vast majority have no clue that t the Federal Reserve is neither federal (it's a privately held corporation, largely owned by foreign interests) or a reserve of anything.  So why does it control our economy and national monetary policies instead of Congress.  (rhetorical) 

 

But make no mistake, the two are related.  

 

There's a reason why the Fed was created covertly within 48 hours of Christmas Day after Congress had adjourned for the holiday.  There's a reason why Wilson, from academia, not politics, whose term it was under, famously exclaimed that he had ruined our country by having allowed it.  

 

It also wasn't coincidental that the three most influential men that opposed it were in the Titanic on it's ill-fated voyage.  

 

If your truly interested in this, I would first recommend a book, but at least a great summary documentary video that's about 90 minutes or so.  

 

It makes no sense to take this up without the relevant background.  Let me know.  

 

 

 

Forget the smoke and mirrors.

 

Do you pay taxes? 

 

If so, why? 

 

 

[Beach]

im in the commander tv area, i will be legal today

[WhoTom]

37 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

To start, the 16th was never ratified.  

 

https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/16th-amendment

Quote

Passed by Congress on July 2, 1909, and ratified February 3, 1913, the 16th amendment established Congress's right to impose a Federal income tax.

 

[PBF81]

30 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Forget the smoke and mirrors.

 

Do you pay taxes? 

 

If so, why? 

 

 

 

Beyond the original context of the discussion and not for this forum.  

 

 

7 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

 

https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/16th-amendment

 

 

OK 

 

  

 

 

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Beyond the original context of the discussion and not for this forum.  

 

 

 

 

No, YOU took it there. 

 

Do you pay taxes? Why? 

[WhoTom]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

No, YOU took it there. 

 

Do you pay taxes? Why? 

 

Because he can't find a lawyer who's willing to argue that the 16th Amendment wasn't ratified. 😉

 

 

[PBF81]

10 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

Because he can't find a lawyer who's willing to argue that the 16th Amendment wasn't ratified. 😉

 

That's largely correct.  

 

I've already also answered that question.  Perhaps go back and read the entire context, and it'll come to you.  

 

There are a lot of things that our government, those that control it, and its agents do that are illegal, but the heavy hand of tyranny doesn't care about laws, does it.  

 

  

 

Either way, as I've said, this is a football forum, not a tax/political forum.  I have difficulty polluting it as such.  Feel free to take on the things that I posed to WEO via PM.  I'm more than happy to engage you there.  

 

GO BILLS!!!  

 

 

[bklnpete]

On 9/1/2023 at 5:02 PM, LabattBlue said:

How many games are on peacock throughout the season homie?

Sunday ticket has always been $$$.  Do you really expect to get that for free?

Sticking up for billionaires. Have another Labatt's homie. 

[Neo]

I’m with the Original Poster.   We should be able to steal from the rich.   Oh, and the wealthy.  Affluent, too.  Don’t forget the comfortable, the satisfied, the successful.   The resourceful, the lucky, the hard working … the smart, the frugal …  hell, everyone with more than me!

Edited September 24, 2023 by Neo

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

That's the most superficial argument that exists.  

 

I'm not sure that this is the place for this discussion, and it's gotten away from our differences over the semantics of and loose connotations of "theft" as it applies in the original context of the general discussion.

 

But if you really want to go down this rabbit hole, and I'm more than happy to as I do it semi-regularly, we can start up in the appropriate forum.  Or via PM.  To start, the 16th was never ratified.  

 

It's also difficult to avoid discussion of the Federal Reserve when discussing this.  The vast majority have no clue that t the Federal Reserve is neither federal (it's a privately held corporation, largely owned by foreign interests) or a reserve of anything.  So why does it control our economy and national monetary policies instead of Congress.  (rhetorical) 

 

But make no mistake, the two are related.  

 

There's a reason why the Fed was created covertly within 48 hours of Christmas Day after Congress had adjourned for the holiday.  There's a reason why Wilson, from academia, not politics, whose term it was under, famously exclaimed that he had ruined our country by having allowed it.  

 

It also wasn't coincidental that the three most influential men that opposed it were in the Titanic on it's ill-fated voyage.  

 

If your truly interested in this, I would first recommend a book, but at least a great summary documentary video that's about 90 minutes or so.  

 

It makes no sense to take this up without the relevant background.  Let me know.  

 

 

when is JFK Jr set to arrive in Dealy Plaza?

take the L.  Every argument and question you have asked has been definitively answered.  Your nonratification claim has been debunked everywhere forever—it’s listed as one of the frivolous claims in the IRS link I gave you. Go read it before responding.  You’re in a deep hole.  
 

Im glad you pay your taxes though 

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

when is JFK Jr set to arrive in Dealy Plaza?

take the L.  Every argument and question you have asked has been definitively answered.  Your nonratification claim has been debunked everywhere forever—it’s listed as one of the frivolous claims in the IRS link I gave you. Go read it before responding.  You’re in a deep hole.  
 

Im glad you pay your taxes though 

 

Wrong.  There's a lot of background that you are missing and clearly have no interest in getting.  

 

Either way, happy to continue to discuss if you want to invest the time, but this isn't the place.  

 

  

 

 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

when is JFK Jr set to arrive in Dealy Plaza?

take the L.  Every argument and question you have asked has been definitively answered.  Your nonratification claim has been debunked everywhere forever—it’s listed as one of the frivolous claims in the IRS link I gave you. Go read it before responding.  You’re in a deep hole.  
 

Im glad you pay your taxes though 

 

BTW, let's get back to the central discussion topic, we're in the mire here, so I'll put it another way.  

 

When money comes from taxpayers to fund business expenses, aka a stadium in this case, for business owners of private businesses which the people paying have no business interests in, ... 

 

and, when that money comes from those same people that as a majority do not approve or otherwise consent to it, ... 

 

and, when there is no basis of any sort, for taking money from one set of people at large and giving it to individuals for purposes of funding that business owner recipient's private business expenses, ... 

 

then we can argue, I suppose, as to whether or not it's theft, but there is absolutely no argument that from an ethics and moral perspective that it even approaches being right.  

 

There are ramifications re: our discussion up to this point, related to that, but I again, only if you want to take that up offline.  But that was the original core of the argument.  

 

 

[MPT]

22 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

im not paying exorbitant prices.  I have had spectrum for years, also Prime before NFL went there.  I get to watch NFL 3 nights a week, multiple games on Sunday.
 

If the NFL didn’t exist, I wouldn’t save a dime with my viewing habits

 

Okay?

[CircleTheWagons99]

Stream worked great today!

[CodeMonkey]

On 9/1/2023 at 4:50 PM, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Think they'll sell a gulfstream or two?

 

I'd love to see the math that added up to nearly $2B a week.

Edited September 24, 2023 by CodeMonkey

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

BTW, let's get back to the central discussion topic, we're in the mire here, so I'll put it another way.  

 

When money comes from taxpayers to fund business expenses, aka a stadium in this case, for business owners of private businesses which the people paying have no business interests in, ... 

 

and, when that money comes from those same people that as a majority do not approve or otherwise consent to it, ... 

 

and, when there is no basis of any sort, for taking money from one set of people at large and giving it to individuals for purposes of funding that business owner recipient's private business expenses, ... 

 

then we can argue, I suppose, as to whether or not it's theft, but there is absolutely no argument that from an ethics and moral perspective that it even approaches being right.  

 

There are ramifications re: our discussion up to this point, related to that, but I again, only if you want to take that up offline.  But that was the original core of the argument.  

 

 

I already said I don’t agree with public funds for sports stadiums.

 

I don’t know who you are arguing with now.

 

your central belief that taxes in general and taxes spent for this purpose is “theft” is wrong because it lacks any logical basis for that conclusion 

 

I’ll leave it at that.  There’s no where else to take this

[Bferra13]

On 9/22/2023 at 7:48 PM, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Sure, probably because they've lined my pockets

 

Make no mistake, don't like the politicians any more than I do the crooked billionaires

 

Yeah, I'm just saying it takes two to tango here on this issue. If you were a billionaire, and you knew you had leverage with the community over your team staying or leaving, you would play the game with the local government to get them to pay for it. And even if you didn't want to do that, I'm pretty sure your finance managers would make you try.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Bferra13 said:

Yeah, I'm just saying it takes two to tango here on this issue. If you were a billionaire, and you knew you had leverage with the community over your team staying or leaving, you would play the game with the local government to get them to pay for it. And even if you didn't want to do that, I'm pretty sure your finance managers would make you try.

Scummy behavior is still scummy even if it's legal