I'm optimistic heading into this season

[Dr.Sack]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Just because of the loss of Edmunds as he's the only player that isn't returning?  Because a healthy White and Hyde will be big, adding Floyd is huge and Benford no longer being a rookie should help.  And then Von returns after 4 games.  Plus late addition Kirskey helps lessen the loss of Edmunds.

The defensive regression being the starting safeties are getting older, a step slower, both having injury history - that comes with high usage. 
 

Tre White should be back to near ACL performance level, but there is always the concern of never fully coming back to 100%.
 

And yes the fact Edmunds had so much length, size and speed to clog up the passing lanes in middle of the field. Kirskey has decent size, but is 31 and slowing down too. He doesn’t have exceptional height 6’2” vs Edmunds 6’5”, nor does he have long arms 32-3/8” vs 34.5”, or 40 time 4.72 seconds (2014) vs 4.54 Edmunds. Bernard is my hope for the middle as he is just a better athlete at this point of his career.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

I don’t expect Von back until Week 6, but the fact remains .. the defense we finished the year with doesn’t hold a candle to our opening day roster.  
 

Loss:

 

Edmunds

 

Added:

 

Floyd

Ford

Rapp

 

Now Healthy:

 

Phillips

White

Poyer

Hyde

Jones

 

I point this out because, justifiably, a lot of angst is due to how the defense finished the year, and then ended with another feckless performance against an elite offense. 
 

Admittedly, the age of our Safeties and the ability of the pass rush to be felt without Von are question marks - along with the obvious hole we’re trying to fill at MLB …

 

… but this defense, on paper, is far more talented than the one that limped to the finish line last year. 

Don’t forget Kirksey.  Maybe not a world beater, but should be serviceable enough.

[PBF81]

On 9/1/2023 at 7:40 PM, Doc said:

 

Draft predictions don't really mean much to me.  It's production in the NFL that matters.  Dean is wholly unproven.  Now he may turn out to be a stud, but I'll need to see it first.

 

As for the Bills' situation, I'll admit it wasn't the greatest of planning, although injuries messed up their plans, but they may have gotten lucky here.  We'll see.

 

And I agree on offense.  I'd still like to see a complete team.

 

OK, but let's not forget the focal point of the discussion, Dean would have been a much better option than anyone we have now.  

 

 

On 9/1/2023 at 8:42 PM, MasterStrategist said:

We have too much talent on defense & a great staff, to experience what you're saying.  

 

We also have aging Safeties, no good option at MLB, which IMO you're underestimating the impact of.  

 

 

On 9/1/2023 at 8:42 PM, MasterStrategist said:

I have us finishing with 13-14 wins.  Much more well-rounded than LY, as a team, and think we will improve the most in turnover differential (past 4 seasons. +4, +4, +8, +0 in 2022).  In that department and improved RZ play, this team can take it up a notch.

 

We'll see.  I'm not a big fan of W/L projections, so much can happen to impact those apart from key injuries.  

 

I'd guess 11 or 12 though.  

 

We'll see.  One week to go. 

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

[Doc]

11 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

OK, but let's not forget the focal point of the discussion, Dean would have been a much better option than anyone we have now.  

 

I'll wait to see on that one. 

[PBF81]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I'll wait to see on that one. 

 

Whether what, Dean's better than Dodson or Bernard? 

 

LOL, .... OK.  

 

We should know in about a month given the early returns.  

 

 

[Doc]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

Whether what, Dean's better than Dodson or Bernard? 

 

LOL, .... OK.  

 

We should know in about a month given the early returns. 

 

Sorry, I stopped taking people's words at face value a long time ago.  No offense.

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

Sorry, I stopped taking people's words at face value a long time ago.  No offense.

 

None taken.   

 

But during the course of the discussion, I've largely deferred to Dean's play at UGA, his associated videos, and the fact that generally speaking he was a late-1st-Round otherwise 2nd-Round prospect by most Draft analysts, while Dodson wasn't even drafted and Bernard, while drafted by us in the 3rd-Round, and not missed by many posters here at the time, was a 3rd to 5th Rounder on most Draft boards.  

 

Ignore me all you want, but ignoring that is a different matter, which is what you've done.  

 

Either way, we'll see, won't we.  I hate to break it to you, absolutely nothing you or I do, think, or say is going to alter the reality and outcome one iota.  

 

 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

None taken.   

 

But during the course of the discussion, I've largely deferred to Dean's play at UGA, his associated videos, and the fact that generally speaking he was a late-1st-Round otherwise 2nd-Round prospect by most Draft analysts, while Dodson wasn't even drafted and Bernard, while drafted by us in the 3rd-Round, and not missed by many posters here at the time, was a 3rd to 5th Rounder on most Draft boards.  

 

Ignore me all you want, but ignoring that is a different matter, which is what you've done.  

 

Either way, we'll see, won't we.  I hate to break it to you, absolutely nothing you or I do, think, or say is going to alter the reality and outcome one iota. 

 

I'm not ignoring you at all.  I've heard what you said about his college success and I don't disagree with you there.  But success in college doesn't mean you'll succeed in the NFL.  The Eagles barely played him last year on defense (about the equivalent of 3/4 of a game over 8 games all season long) despite knowing Edwards was an impending FA at the end of the year.  He's also 5'11" and 230# and it was widely reported that he ran a 4.74 40, although not at the Combine. 

 

That's why I'll wait and see.  If he plays well, great, I have nothing against him.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Doc

[PBF81]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

I'm not ignoring you at all. 

 

You didn't really acknowledge the things that I pointed out that others, not me, said either.  

 

When you say things like that you've "stopped taking word that people say at face value a long time ago," you may want to clarify.  

 

In the course of discussion, I'm not even sure what that adds to a discussion.  If you have nothing to say, IDK, maybe say nothing.  

 

 

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

You didn't really acknowledge the things that I pointed out that others, not me, said either.  

 

When you say things like that you've "stopped taking word that people say at face value a long time ago," you may want to clarify.  

 

In the course of discussion, I'm not even sure what that adds to a discussion.  If you have nothing to say, IDK, maybe say nothing. 

 

All you've talked about is his college performance and where people thought he would get drafted.  The guy barely played last year as a rookie even as the season wore on.  So let me clarify myself to you: I don't care what you or others think or say.  Dean will prove himself on the field.  Is that easy enough to understand?

Edited September 4, 2023 by Doc

[PBF81]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

 

All you've talked about is his college performance and where people thought he would get drafted.  The guy barely played last year as a rookie even as the season wore on.  So let me clarify myself to you: I don't care what you or others think or say.  Dean will prove himself on the field.  Is that easy enough to understand?

 

We'll OK, but that doesn't address the topic from where you originally started discussing this with me.

 

It also doesn't address our situation.  In short then, you're implication is that Dean may end up being good.  But we know that no one we have is going to cut the mustard for any length of time.  Sounds like we agree on that.  

 

At the end of the day we have a hole there bc Beane didn't adequately address the situation.  I have no idea why anyone even argues that as many here do.  

 

 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

We'll OK, but that doesn't address the topic from where you originally started discussing this with me.

 

It also doesn't address our situation.  In short then, you're implication is that Dean may end up being good.  But we know that no one we have is going to cut the mustard for any length of time.  Sounds like we agree on that.  

 

At the end of the day we have a hole there bc Beane didn't adequately address the situation.  I have no idea why anyone even argues that as many here do. 

 

Where I came in is when you said the Bills made a mistake not addressing MLB, specifically by not taking Dean.  I said that Dean, despite his successful college career and draft projection, was actually taken in the 3rd round and hasn't shown he's an adequate MLB since the Eagles didn't see fit to have him play more than a handful of snaps in the limited number of games he did play on defense last year as a rookie.  And he's only 5'11" and 230# and probably wasn't what the Bills were looking for after having a 6'5" behemoth.  Why you took offense to my "I'll wait and see" approach is anyone's guess.

 

As for addressing MLB, they did, by continuing to develop Dodson, drafting Bernard and Spector last year and drafting Williams although they decided to put him at OLB.  The question of adequacy is a different one because it relies on the players developing sufficiently.  None have played enough snaps in the NFL to know and Spector is currently on IR.

 

But the Bills just signed Kirksey, a guy they targeted several years ago.  So they just might have adequately addressed MLB after all.  Again we'll have to wait and see.

[PBF81]

38 minutes ago, Doc said:

Where I came in is when you said the Bills made a mistake not addressing MLB, specifically by not taking Dean.  I said that Dean, despite his successful college career and draft projection, was actually taken in the 3rd round and hasn't shown he's an adequate MLB since the Eagles didn't see fit to have him play more than a handful of snaps in the limited number of games he did play on defense last year as a rookie.  And he's only 5'11" and 230# and probably wasn't what the Bills were looking for after having a 6'5" behemoth.  Why you took offense to my "I'll wait and see" approach is anyone's guess.  

 

I didn't take any offense whatsoever.  I was merely providing counterpoints to your seemingly one-sided argument, as you even continue here.  

 

I clearly pointed out why Dean didn't start last season.  If McD had drafted him and he had sat behind Edmunds, like he did behind Edwards, who's better than Edmunds, agruably I suppose, you and others likely would have said it was great planning and a wise move by McD.  But in this case your implication is that it wasn't.  OK  

 

You also continue to ignore that where Dean was taken was about the latest that any draft analyst out there had him, with some projecting him in the 1st, but most in the early 2nd.  Then you say the below ... 

 

 

38 minutes ago, Doc said:

As for addressing MLB, they did, by continuing to develop Dodson, drafting Bernard and Spector last year and drafting Williams although they decided to put him at OLB.  The question of adequacy is a different one because it relies on the players developing sufficiently.  None have played enough snaps in the NFL to know and Spector is currently on IR.

 

... to which I pointed out that "developing Dodson," an undrafted player that hasn't proven much either here or in college that he's even remotely capable of nailing down that MLB spot, that Bernard in the most optimistic draft projection was about where Dean was projected at his absolutely worst, and I have no idea why Spector's entering the conversation at this point, and Williams isn't even a MLB and as I pointed out, there's not one credible draft analyst that claims that he was.  Again, you completely step over the bodies of either incompetence or negligence in implicitly, if not outright, defending the team's draft methodologies.  

 

None have played enough snaps in the NFL because it's blatant that none stand out in the ability to play the position.  Sheeeet, if they can't do it in camp, then what are the odds that they'll do it in real games.  Remote, plain and simple since that's not obvious.  

 

Meanwhile, you dismiss Dean who's played even fewer snaps "to know," as likely not being good enough.  SMH  And you can't see the inconsistency in your approach.  

 

 

38 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

But the Bills just signed Kirksey, a guy they targeted several years ago.  So they just might have adequately addressed MLB after all.  Again we'll have to wait and see.

 

Oh please ... 

 

Look, I get it, you want to defend Beane a/o McD.  But let's be honest, there's no good explanation that let's them off the hook on why we have a bare spot in the middle of our defense this season, there simply isn't spin it as you and others have tried to do.  

 

Fortunately, and IMO, it's not going to matter much.  Don't get me wrong, I suspect that our D falters well into the range of the average, but no doubt you've seen me say that I expect the offense to set franchise records this season and carry us to whatever success we achieve.  

 

GO BILLS!!!    One week away.  

 

 

[Jauronimo]

On 9/1/2023 at 4:20 PM, PBF81 said:

 

As someone that did a notable amount of post-draft research on Dean, I'm telling you that there's no comparison between Kirksey and Dean.  

 

Dean sat behind Edwards who joined Edmunds in Chicago this season.  Do your homework boss.  

 

Did you watch any of his footage from UGA?  Did you read his draft profiles?  

 

He'll be above-average in Philly.  Right now on a good day, even with Kirksey, we have average, again, on a good day.  

 

Kirksey also has a significant injury history, particularly recently.  

 

I have no idea why anyone is optimistic about Kirksey other than to replace mediocre with marginally better than mediocre.  

 

 

As well, we should be pleasantly surprised if he plays anywhere close to all 17 games.  

 

 

5 minutes ago you didn't know what position Kirksey played.  Take it down a notch, Boss.

 

 

[PBF81]

30 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

5 minutes ago you didn't know what position Kirksey played.  Take it down a notch, Boss.

 

 

 

Yeah, there's a reason for that.  

 

You'll see it too once the season begins.  

 

 

 

 

[Gugny]

On 8/31/2023 at 6:29 PM, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Why? Well, primarily because being a pessimist is stupid and counterproductive.

 

But, here are some enumerated reasons for optimism:

 

1) Year two of Dorsey in his job. Experience is valuable, and now he's going to have some more tools in the box. I'm really bullish on the tight ends especially.

 

2) we have Josh Allen. So long as that alien clone supersoldier is our QB, we have a chance to win.

 

3) Another year for Groot. Last year, the Frenchman had a sneaky 8 sack season, I see no plausible reason he can't build off it. I see at least 10 for Greg.

 

4) no Leslie Frazier. Thank heaven.

 

5) The pressure of expectation is shifted to lesser teams in the Jests and Miami. This team does better in that environment.

 

I could go on, but go bills 

You took a gummy, didn’t you. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

I just hope the Bills beat the Jets.

 

Otherwise there could be a meltdown on this board of which the likes that have never been seen

[Doc]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

I didn't take any offense whatsoever.  I was merely providing counterpoints to your seemingly one-sided argument, as you even continue here.  

 

I clearly pointed out why Dean didn't start last season.  If McD had drafted him and he had sat behind Edmunds, like he did behind Edwards, who's better than Edmunds, agruably I suppose, you and others likely would have said it was great planning and a wise move by McD.  But in this case your implication is that it wasn't.  OK  

 

You also continue to ignore that where Dean was taken was about the latest that any draft analyst out there had him, with some projecting him in the 1st, but most in the early 2nd.  Then you say the below ... 

 

 

 

... to which I pointed out that "developing Dodson," an undrafted player that hasn't proven much either here or in college that he's even remotely capable of nailing down that MLB spot, that Bernard in the most optimistic draft projection was about where Dean was projected at his absolutely worst, and I have no idea why Spector's entering the conversation at this point, and Williams isn't even a MLB and as I pointed out, there's not one credible draft analyst that claims that he was.  Again, you completely step over the bodies of either incompetence or negligence in implicitly, if not outright, defending the team's draft methodologies.  

 

None have played enough snaps in the NFL because it's blatant that none stand out in the ability to play the position.  Sheeeet, if they can't do it in camp, then what are the odds that they'll do it in real games.  Remote, plain and simple since that's not obvious.  

 

Meanwhile, you dismiss Dean who's played even fewer snaps "to know," as likely not being good enough.  SMH  And you can't see the inconsistency in your approach.  

 

 

 

Oh please ... 

 

Look, I get it, you want to defend Beane a/o McD.  But let's be honest, there's no good explanation that let's them off the hook on why we have a bare spot in the middle of our defense this season, there simply isn't spin it as you and others have tried to do.  

 

Fortunately, and IMO, it's not going to matter much.  Don't get me wrong, I suspect that our D falters well into the range of the average, but no doubt you've seen me say that I expect the offense to set franchise records this season and carry us to whatever success we achieve.  

 

GO BILLS!!!    One week away. 

 

You think that the loss of Edmunds (the only loss from last year's defense, while they added some good players and got some back/healthy) and being replaced by even Dodson or Bernard will cause this defense to just become average?  OK, it's possible...

 

Look, I get that you think it's cheap that they found Kirksey at the last-minute.  I think it's cheap that the Jets were able to finally get a franchise QB.  It is what it is.

 

But again as I said, the Bills addressed the MLB position.  We don't even know if they did it adequately because we haven't seen Dodson or Bernard play much in this defense.  Just like we don't know if Dean is an adequate replacement in Philly.  I don't think there's anything controversial taking that stance and college production and draft position, predicted or otherwise, don't mean much to me.  And it will probably be moot since I still see Kirksey starting soon, possibly game 1.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Doc

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

You took a gummy, didn’t you. 

Nah swore off that stuff 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

I just hope the Bills beat the Jets.

 

Otherwise there could be a meltdown on this board of which the likes that have never been seen

 

 

Worse than the home playoff loss to the Bengals?  

 

Like, the literal last real game?

 

Big, if true.