Kirksey signing with the Bills PS

[Straight Hucklebuck]

6 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Some people here like to over-react on everything.  We trade an RB who is parked on the bench for Nyheim Hines, who immediately takes over the punt return duties that Crowder had been filling and that Shakir and McKenzie looked shaky with - and proceded to fill them capably all season while making limited offensive contributions.  But some here act like we traded for our own budget Christian McCaffrey who would become an immediate game-changer on offense.

 

But that's not just the fans. 

 

The Bills were relentless in their pursuit of the 3rd down pass catching back, with Cook, agreeing to terms with McKissic, ultimately trading for Hines. 

 

And in the Press Conference after the trade, Beane talked about how they wanted that piece in the offense. 

 

Hines touched the ball 11 times on offense in 7 games. 

 

Yes we remember the Patriots game foundly and maybe him winning that game for the team made it all worth it, but I don't think the Bills did a good job at all utilizing him. 

 

It was the same old 2/3 Singletary, 1/3 Cook all last year, before and after the Hines trade. 

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

Right.  Dodson has the physical tools, so he must have struggled with managing the mental challenges of the position.  I think that's exactly why Kirksey was brought in

  

Klein has the mental skills, but I assume Kirksey is better physically.  That's why Kirksey has been a more consistent starter.

Dodson profiles exactly like his Scouting Combine, graded at a 5.60 - "Candidate for bottom of the roster or Practice Squad"

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tyrel-dodson/3200444f-4434-1460-b378-91176d704c77

 

 

And Bernard isn't much better 5.94: "Average backup or Special Teamer"

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/terrel-bernard/32004245-5223-6424-136f-901f81674ee9

 

 

And Kirksey, apparently, wasn't thought of as anything more than a backup and special teamer as well: 5.80

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/christian-kirksey/32004b49-5263-6906-3aa4-9ab200514c55

 

 

Still, Kirksey is 6'2", Dodson is 6'0" and Bernard is 224 pounds, so neither of those two can man the middle. 

[Warcodered]

 

[hondo in seattle]

The Cover 1 highlights look good.  And Kirksey's has a lot of starting experience and has been voted a team captain.   That all speaks well for him.

 

But Kirksey's PFF score of 56.1 makes me wonder how balanced and representative the Cover 1 film and commentary was.   Though the talk about playing to a guy's strengths was interesting.  

[Logic]

9 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

The Cover 1 highlights look good.  And Kirksey's has a lot of starting experience and has been voted a team captain.   That all speaks well for him.

 

But Kirksey's PFF score of 56.1 makes me wonder how balanced and representative the Cover 1 film and commentary was.   Though the talk about playing to a guy's strengths was interesting.  

Texans fans will tell you that Kirksey was a liability last year.

It's weird, because on the one hand, he's been a captain and is clearly a good leader and communicator, and has good statistical production.

On the other hand, the Texans surely had a good reason to release him -- I don't buy that it was ONLY because of injury.

What I suspect is that he's going to bring certain strengths to this defense, and he'll be lacking in other areas. I think he'll be a good run defender, and more importantly, a good communicator and organizer of the defense. I think he'll earn the green dot and will end up being the leader of the second level of the defense. What I think he'll lack is in the area of pass defense. Ultimately, though, while I don't expect him to maybe be quite as good as some Bills fans are envisioning, I DO think he'll be an upgrade over Tyrel Dodsen, particularly as a leader and communicator.

[co_springs_billsfan]

18 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

I've seen enough.  Start him.

[Udubalum07]

The Bills didn't bring him in to be a superstar.  What they have seen so far in camp is probably some of the worst middle line backer play in the NFL. So, it is too late to make it a strength so this signing is a hope for at least a return to below average for that position.  

 

I'm guessing they will target the position in a major way this coming offseason, either through free agency, the draft, or with a year in the system giving Williams every rep to have him ready next year. 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

On the other hand, the Texans surely had a good reason to release him -- I don't buy that it was ONLY because of injury.

 

They saved a lot of salary cap by cutting him.    $5.2 million.  

[Sherlock Holmes]

39 minutes ago, Udubalum07 said:

The Bills didn't bring him in to be a superstar.  What they have seen so far in camp is probably some of the worst middle line backer play in the NFL. So, it is too late to make it a strength so this signing is a hope for at least a return to below average for that position.  

 

I'm guessing they will target the position in a major way this coming offseason, either through free agency, the draft, or with a year in the system giving Williams every rep to have him ready next year. 

He's here to hold down MLB until Spector can get back.

[Shaw66]

On 8/31/2023 at 3:47 PM, newcam2012 said:

I think the Beane was really going to resign Edmunds. All indications pointed that way. Thinking he might even take a slight discount to stay in Buffalo

 

Things changed when the Bears massively overpaid for him. At that point, there's no way Beane could resign him. 

 

Now Beane had to make another tough decision on Oliver. That decision was made much easier with the departure of Edmunds. Additionally, the Bills are pretty thin in this department too. So it was prudent to sign Oliver on what looks to be a pretty fair level of compensation.

 

Of course, the MLB void still existed. I truly believe Jack Campbell was their guy. No proof of that just my opinion. Kincaid still on the board with no Campbell was an easy decision. The Dorian Williams pick is a hard scratcher. Not sure I get it to this day. Maybe, I'm just not that smart. Seems like every draft Beane does a WTF...

 

Free agency is the next option. Seems like the available FAs weren't a good fit or really not true MLB. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

Last resort, Beane decides to stay the course with the available MLBs on the roster. One of them will hopefully take a step forward and at least be serviceable. Not a crazy notion and still a possibility. Training camp and pre season seems to show the liability at the position. Beane has to do something.

 

The Kirksey signing. Is he great? Is he elite? No and no. Is it a solid signing? Yes. He brings experience and some skill to the forefront. You can't hate the free move sort of speak. I guess you could absolutely critique the process of how things evolved. 

 

Let's hope the MLB position isn't the Achilles heal of the defense. I don't agree that it's an insignificant position. 

I like this post.  Nice overall summary.   I want to add a few things.

 

First, I never said linebacker is insignificant.  I said that when we look at the totality of Beane and McDermott's roster building, I think it's clear that linebacker is, in their minds, the least important defensive position, the position where it's least important to have top talent.   As others have said, it's the defensive equivalent of the running back on offense.  

 

I think that's obvious from Beane's presser.  He said the other guys on defense will have to pick up the slack.  It makes sense schematically: it's the position where the guy can get help from his teammates from any direction.  You can't help and edge rusher - if he can't get to the quarterback, it's an advantage to the offense.  You can only help the corner back by doubling his man or playing zone, both things being advantages to the offense.  The middle linebacker's job gets easier if he has talent all around him, so you can get away with a lesser talent there without hurting your defense as much as having a weak player on the edge.  

 

Beane said he want to re-sign Edmunds, but I wouldn't be quick to assume that meant that he any expectation that he would.   None of us knows, but I don't think the Bears were the only team who would pay Edmunds more than Beane would.  The Bears just happened to offer the most.  My guess is that Beane and McDermott decided that they only wanted Edmunds at a relatively lowball price.  There was nothing in the short time before Edmunds signed that suggested that Beane offered enough to have even a short negotiation with Edmunds. 

 

And I don't think they signed Oliver because they had money from not signing Edmunds.  I just don't.  Oliver was the 8th best paid DT in the league when he signed, which meant they paid him right about what he's worth.  And not signing him would have a left a bigger hole than not signing Edmunds, for the reason stated above.  If you have a weak middle linebacker, you can cover for him.  If you have a weak 3-tech, there's nothing you can do to help him. 

 

Someday we'll know if Beane wanted Campbell.   He didn't fall far enough for Beane to be able to trade up for him.  

 

I don't think Williams is such a head scratcher, but I do agree about Beane's annual WTF.   Great line!

 

When I started this discussion a week or two ago, I said that Beane ALWAYS attempts to fill holes.  ALWAYS.   I think the only way to explain the fact that for two seasons he got no serious help in the draft and no serious help in free agency is that Beane and McDermott think that lesser talent is enough to fill the perceived hole.  

 

And I think running back is the same.  Their answer at running back was two third round picks (Motor and Moss), one second round pick who never will be as good as his brother, and some NFL journeymen.   It's just not a position the McBeane think they have to spend money on, and middle linebacker is the same.  

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I like this post.  Nice overall summary.   I want to add a few things.

 

First, I never said linebacker is insignificant.  I said that when we look at the totality of Beane and McDermott's roster building, I think it's clear that linebacker is, in their minds, the least important defensive position, the position where it's least important to have top talent.   As others have said, it's the defensive equivalent of the running back on offense.  

 

I think that's obvious from Beane's presser.  He said the other guys on defense will have to pick up the slack.  It makes sense schematically: it's the position where the guy can get help from his teammates from any direction.  You can't help and edge rusher - if he can't get to the quarterback, it's an advantage to the offense.  You can only help the corner back by doubling his man or playing zone, both things being advantages to the offense.  The middle linebacker's job gets easier if he has talent all around him, so you can get away with a lesser talent there without hurting your defense as much as having a weak player on the edge.  

 

Beane said he want to re-sign Edmunds, but I wouldn't be quick to assume that meant that he any expectation that he would.   None of us knows, but I don't think the Bears were the only team who would pay Edmunds more than Beane would.  The Bears just happened to offer the most.  My guess is that Beane and McDermott decided that they only wanted Edmunds at a relatively lowball price.  There was nothing in the short time before Edmunds signed that suggested that Beane offered enough to have even a short negotiation with Edmunds. 

 

And I don't think they signed Oliver because they had money from not signing Edmunds.  I just don't.  Oliver was the 8th best paid DT in the league when he signed, which meant they paid him right about what he's worth.  And not signing him would have a left a bigger hole than not signing Edmunds, for the reason stated above.  If you have a weak middle linebacker, you can cover for him.  If you have a weak 3-tech, there's nothing you can do to help him. 

 

Someday we'll know if Beane wanted Campbell.   He didn't fall far enough for Beane to be able to trade up for him.  

 

I don't think Williams is such a head scratcher, but I do agree about Beane's annual WTF.   Great line!

 

When I started this discussion a week or two ago, I said that Beane ALWAYS attempts to fill holes.  ALWAYS.   I think the only way to explain the fact that for two seasons he got no serious help in the draft and no serious help in free agency is that Beane and McDermott think that lesser talent is enough to fill the perceived hole.  

 

And I think running back is the same.  Their answer at running back was two third round picks (Motor and Moss), one second round pick who never will be as good as his brother, and some NFL journeymen.   It's just not a position the McBeane think they have to spend money on, and middle linebacker is the same.  

Nice post Shaw. 

 

Is the MLB position in the Bills system really depicted correctly here? Not trying to be a wise guy here. I'm not strong in the xs and os sort of speak. Many others here can absolutely give some solid input here. I'm an old school guy and thought the position was very vital. Almost like the QB of the defense. A rock and foundation piece of the D. Maybe the game's changed? In fact, Beane I believe is on the record verifying the importance of Edmunds. 

 

The Bills D was not nearly as good without Edmunds. Also, it was pretty obvious when he played well and poorly. He sure seemed to be an important piece to the D. 

 

Looking forward to what others think. 

[newcam2012]

22 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Dodson profiles exactly like his Scouting Combine, graded at a 5.60 - "Candidate for bottom of the roster or Practice Squad"

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tyrel-dodson/3200444f-4434-1460-b378-91176d704c77

 

 

And Bernard isn't much better 5.94: "Average backup or Special Teamer"

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/terrel-bernard/32004245-5223-6424-136f-901f81674ee9

 

 

And Kirksey, apparently, wasn't thought of as anything more than a backup and special teamer as well: 5.80

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/christian-kirksey/32004b49-5263-6906-3aa4-9ab200514c55

 

 

Still, Kirksey is 6'2", Dodson is 6'0" and Bernard is 224 pounds, so neither of those two can man the middle. 

Happen to agree here. Like the Kirksey pick up but MLB position sure is problematic this year. 

 

Hard to think other quality aren't going to expose the Bills. 

 

I'm interested in seeing how McD can effectively beat quality offenses with a glaring hole in the middle. Perhaps , one of the Bills guys steps up. Let's hope so. 

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Nice post Shaw. 

 

Is the MLB position in the Bills system really depicted correctly here? Not trying to be a wise guy here. I'm not strong in the xs and os sort of speak. Many others here can absolutely give some solid input here. I'm an old school guy and thought the position was very vital. Almost like the QB of the defense. A rock and foundation piece of the D. Maybe the game's changed? In fact, Beane I believe is on the record verifying the importance of Edmunds. 

 

The Bills D was not nearly as good without Edmunds. Also, it was pretty obvious when he played well and poorly. He sure seemed to be an important piece to the D. 

Looking forward to what others think. 

I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'm confident I'm correct about this.  

 

I'm as old or older than you.  I grew up a Jim Brown fan, and so I knew a lot about Sam Huff and Ray Nitschke.  Then Butkus.  Those were the days when the middle linebacker was THE MAN.   Then the man was Lawrence Taylor, and suddenly everything changed.  As the game evolved, the edge rushers took over.  Ray Lewis was a throwback. 

 

Brian Uhrlacher was a star middle linebacker, but what him a star was his ability to take deep drops in the Cover 2.  His special skill was pass defense.   Yes, he was big and strong, but he ushered in the change to mobile pass coverage middle linebackers.  

 

I, like a lot of people still carry the image of Sam Huff and Ray Lewis with me, but I've come to believe that those guys are history.   It's a passing league, and the back seven are critical to a good pass defense.  As offenses have spread, all seven back defenders have had to be mobile enough to cover wideouts, faster tight ends, and running backs.   Huff and Nitschke would struggle today.  

 

Keuchle may have been last of the great two-way (run-pass) middle linebackers.  I think McBeane hoped that Edmunds would play the run tough enough to be a Keuchle type dominator, but he never developed into that.  

 

So, I've begun thinking that the middle linebacker just isn't as important as the other positions.   I think Beane confirmed it the other day, when he said that if they're relatively weak in the middle, the players around them will have to pick them up.  It's impossible to say that about any other position on defense.  Those positions cannot be the weak link.  But middle linebacker can.  

 

With Edmunds gone, the zone the middle linebacker covers necessarily must shrink.  So that means Milano, Johnson, the corners and the safeties will each have to increase their coverage zones a bit, but that's six guys dividing up the space that Edmunds used to cover.  That's a weakness, to be sure, but their zones will now be the same size as the zones all other pass defenders have (because those defenders don't have Edmunds, either).   But in exchange, the Bills are looking for a guy to play the middle who can defend the pass effectively and attack ball carriers and the quarterback better than Edmunds (which frankly shouldn't be very hard).   

 

That's what I've been thinking.   And I think it's confirmed by Beane having made major moves to strengthen or keep every defensive position EXCEPT middle linebacker.   They're obviously just looking for a quick, smart, aggressive tackling athlete.  Bernard, Williams, Dodson.  They aren't looking for Keuchle any more.  

 

I think the game has changed, and old timers like me are just catching up to that fact.  

30 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

 

I'm interested in seeing how McD can effectively beat quality offenses with a glaring hole in the middle. Perhaps , one of the Bills guys steps up. Let's hope so. 

Kirksey will be the guy.  He has experience calling the defense, which is part of the problem with Dodson, Bernard and Williams.  He has been an effective pass defender.  And he's better against the run than Edmunds, and a better blitzer, too.   He is not going to be a star, but as I've been saying, the Bills seems to have decided that middle linebacker is the position where a star is least necessary.  

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, Udubalum07 said:

The Bills didn't bring him in to be a superstar.  What they have seen so far in camp is probably some of the worst middle line backer play in the NFL. So, it is too late to make it a strength so this signing is a hope for at least a return to below average for that position.  

 

I'm guessing they will target the position in a major way this coming offseason, either through free agency, the draft, or with a year in the system giving Williams every rep to have him ready next year. 

and the clock ticks on Allen and a SB team

some sarcasm was included

[BADOLBILZ]

23 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

 

It was the same old 2/3 Singletary, 1/3 Cook all last year, before and after the Hines trade. 

 

 

 

 

While I roll my eyes at Beane's relative fascination with RB's...........the 2022 Bills did lead the entire NFL in yards per rush (5.2) and yards per rush by RB's (4.9) so I think Hines didn't come off the pine mostly because they got excellent RB production aside from very close to the goal line.   (Which they have since addressed with 2 RB's in Harris and Murray who are uncanny at scoring from inside the 3) 

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'm confident I'm correct about this.  

 

I'm as old or older than you.  I grew up a Jim Brown fan, and so I knew a lot about Sam Huff and Ray Nitschke.  Then Butkus.  Those were the days when the middle linebacker was THE MAN.   Then the man was Lawrence Taylor, and suddenly everything changed.  As the game evolved, the edge rushers took over.  Ray Lewis was a throwback. 

 

Brian Uhrlacher was a star middle linebacker, but what him a star was his ability to take deep drops in the Cover 2.  His special skill was pass defense.   Yes, he was big and strong, but he ushered in the change to mobile pass coverage middle linebackers.  

 

I, like a lot of people still carry the image of Sam Huff and Ray Lewis with me, but I've come to believe that those guys are history.   It's a passing league, and the back seven are critical to a good pass defense.  As offenses have spread, all seven back defenders have had to be mobile enough to cover wideouts, faster tight ends, and running backs.   Huff and Nitschke would struggle today.  

 

Keuchle may have been last of the great two-way (run-pass) middle linebackers.  I think McBeane hoped that Edmunds would play the run tough enough to be a Keuchle type dominator, but he never developed into that.  

 

So, I've begun thinking that the middle linebacker just isn't as important as the other positions.   I think Beane confirmed it the other day, when he said that if they're relatively weak in the middle, the players around them will have to pick them up.  It's impossible to say that about any other position on defense.  Those positions cannot be the weak link.  But middle linebacker can.  

 

With Edmunds gone, the zone the middle linebacker covers necessarily must shrink.  So that means Milano, Johnson, the corners and the safeties will each have to increase their coverage zones a bit, but that's six guys dividing up the space that Edmunds used to cover.  That's a weakness, to be sure, but their zones will now be the same size as the zones all other pass defenders have (because those defenders don't have Edmunds, either).   But in exchange, the Bills are looking for a guy to play the middle who can defend the pass effectively and attack ball carriers and the quarterback better than Edmunds (which frankly shouldn't be very hard).   

 

That's what I've been thinking.   And I think it's confirmed by Beane having made major moves to strengthen or keep every defensive position EXCEPT middle linebacker.   They're obviously just looking for a quick, smart, aggressive tackling athlete.  Bernard, Williams, Dodson.  They aren't looking for Keuchle any more.  

 

I think the game has changed, and old timers like me are just catching up to that fact.  

Kirksey will be the guy.  He has experience calling the defense, which is part of the problem with Dodson, Bernard and Williams.  He has been an effective pass defender.  And he's better against the run than Edmunds, and a better blitzer, too.   He is not going to be a star, but as I've been saying, the Bills seems to have decided that middle linebacker is the position where a star is least necessary.  

 

That’s not just the Bills Shaw.  The league has devalued off the ball LBers which was Edmunds and this role.  Franchise tags are misleading as edge rushing LBers demand big $.  At the end of the day, that’s Von, but just does it with his hands in the dirt in this defense.

 

FWIW, league wide the three areas financially devalued are the RB (shocker), off the ball LBer, and Safety.  Counter this with we have once Von is back three quality Edge Rushers in GROOT, Floyd and Von.  We have an entire secondary minus CB2 as top of the line as once Hyde and Poyer put to bed they are old, amd Tre with an off season an incredibly talented pass defense.  Taron is a stud, amd Rall balances him for 12 personnel and 21 personnel offenses heavy running teams.

 

I’ll say what I always say, it’s not Madden.  Not everyone will be a star.  You need a role player in some spots.

[John from Riverside]

I’m throwing my projection at week three
And the bills never look back

[oldmanfan]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'm confident I'm correct about this.  

 

I'm as old or older than you.  I grew up a Jim Brown fan, and so I knew a lot about Sam Huff and Ray Nitschke.  Then Butkus.  Those were the days when the middle linebacker was THE MAN.   Then the man was Lawrence Taylor, and suddenly everything changed.  As the game evolved, the edge rushers took over.  Ray Lewis was a throwback. 

 

Brian Uhrlacher was a star middle linebacker, but what him a star was his ability to take deep drops in the Cover 2.  His special skill was pass defense.   Yes, he was big and strong, but he ushered in the change to mobile pass coverage middle linebackers.  

 

I, like a lot of people still carry the image of Sam Huff and Ray Lewis with me, but I've come to believe that those guys are history.   It's a passing league, and the back seven are critical to a good pass defense.  As offenses have spread, all seven back defenders have had to be mobile enough to cover wideouts, faster tight ends, and running backs.   Huff and Nitschke would struggle today.  

 

Keuchle may have been last of the great two-way (run-pass) middle linebackers.  I think McBeane hoped that Edmunds would play the run tough enough to be a Keuchle type dominator, but he never developed into that.  

 

So, I've begun thinking that the middle linebacker just isn't as important as the other positions.   I think Beane confirmed it the other day, when he said that if they're relatively weak in the middle, the players around them will have to pick them up.  It's impossible to say that about any other position on defense.  Those positions cannot be the weak link.  But middle linebacker can.  

 

With Edmunds gone, the zone the middle linebacker covers necessarily must shrink.  So that means Milano, Johnson, the corners and the safeties will each have to increase their coverage zones a bit, but that's six guys dividing up the space that Edmunds used to cover.  That's a weakness, to be sure, but their zones will now be the same size as the zones all other pass defenders have (because those defenders don't have Edmunds, either).   But in exchange, the Bills are looking for a guy to play the middle who can defend the pass effectively and attack ball carriers and the quarterback better than Edmunds (which frankly shouldn't be very hard).   

 

That's what I've been thinking.   And I think it's confirmed by Beane having made major moves to strengthen or keep every defensive position EXCEPT middle linebacker.   They're obviously just looking for a quick, smart, aggressive tackling athlete.  Bernard, Williams, Dodson.  They aren't looking for Keuchle any more.  

 

I think the game has changed, and old timers like me are just catching up to that fact.  

Kirksey will be the guy.  He has experience calling the defense, which is part of the problem with Dodson, Bernard and Williams.  He has been an effective pass defender.  And he's better against the run than Edmunds, and a better blitzer, too.   He is not going to be a star, but as I've been saying, the Bills seems to have decided that middle linebacker is the position where a star is least necessary.  

Well stated as usual.  I would add the term Middle LB implies you have two other LB, one on either side.  Hard to have a MLB with just 2 LBs on the field.  

[maddenboy]

On 8/31/2023 at 8:27 AM, The Frankish Reich said:

True, I didn't see the INTs, the forced fumbles, the sacks.

But that's a narrow view of what counts as "making mistakes." Not giving up the big play, making an offense sustain a 12 play drive without a holding penalty, a dropped catch, a false start causing a 1st and 15 ... all of those things are critical to a bend but don't break philosophy. And Edmunds was a very good fit for that.

 

i dont think the point of the bend-but-dont-break philosophy is to wait for the opponent to make mistakes.

 

you cant just say, (for example):  on average, a 12 play drive will yield X number of penalties, Y number of dropped passes, and Z number of missed field goals.

 

The point of the bend-dont-break is to capitalize on those mistakes.  Where capitalize does not just mean 'eventually get the ball back.'

 

sacks.  forced fumbles.  QB hits.  Opponents geting frustrated and commiting personal fouls.  Tricking QBs. 

 

 

Edmunds gave you none of that.   Dont tell me it wasnt his job and i dont know his assignment, etc.   

I think the only time on Defense where your assignment does not involve making a play is either (1) eating a double team, or (2) setting the edge.   Otherwise, your assignment should be to do your role, so you can be in position to make a play if it presents. 

 

Never happened with Edmunds.  He was like the employee whose priority was to not get fired.  No thought of advancement.

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by maddenboy

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

 

Edmunds gave you none of that. 

Edmunds had amazing range.  He covered a lot of space.  Given how much he was in the vicinity,  it was surprising how relatively few plays he made.