Boogie traded to Giants

[Mr. Wonderful]

12 hours ago, eball said:

I think there’s a fair argument that Beane is better at selecting players in rounds 4-7 than he is in rounds 1-3.  It’s weird, but as long as you get guys who can play…

 

 

Supporting the fact he's been lucky and/or the draft is a crapshoot.

4 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

Maybe we’ll get a sixth for Elam next year. I actually think Beane has been a great GM but I don’t like much about our approach to drafting defensive players. We’ve made too many redundant picks, along with guys who seem incompatible with our scheme, and coaches can’t figure out how to use them. Wasted draft picks on defense might be the greatest hurdle to this generation of Bills being champs. Picks like Elam and Basham would have been better used on offensive linemen. 

 

Not ready to give up on Elam.  He's looked good in the limited time he's had a chance to play. 

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

When you’ve got the opportunity to replace a solid, but not great, aging veteran who has a big contract with a late second round pick, you take that every time.

 

This is further proof that you don't pay attention to the Bills. Morse's contract is at the bottom of the list of reasons for why we've failed to get over the hump. Morse has in fact been our most consistent OL since we signed him in 2019.

 

Of course there is always some perfect hindsight hypothetical you could find to replace any medium sized contract with a good player on a rookie contract that the team in question didn't draft... I'm sure your team would much prefer to have Tee Higgins on a rookie deal over MVS's contract, while CEH languishes in 3rd place on the depth chart. But identifying individual draft failures is a pointless exercise.

 

Much worse than Beane's draft record is his free agency record. To use your team as an example, getting JuJu Smith-Schuster with a $3.7 million cap hit compared to us getting Jamsion Crowder for a $2 million cap hit was MUCH MUCH more impactful than the difference between Humphrey and Morse even accounting for Humphrey being quite a bit cheaper. You got a 77% catch percentage reliable 2nd option, we got an IR participant, for the difference of $1.7 million. I'd replace Humphrey AND Morse with our backup center Ryan Bates if it meant I could swap those WRs instead.

 

Beane has given wasteful contracts to the likes of Vernon Butler, Star Lotulelei, and Trent Murphy, while other contenders have gotten value from the likes of Trey Hendrickson, DJ Reader, and Hasson Reddick.

 

If you want to point to a major draft blunder, it was that the last time we had a top 10 pick we took Ed Oliver and then 4 pass rushers drafted after him all ended up being better players (Burns, Wilkins, Lawrence, Simmons). That was our last shot at a top 10 pick possibly ever in the Josh Allen era and we hit a single.

 

All of these errors I've outlined, and more, are far beyond failing to draft a good center when we already had a good center locked up. Humphrey doesn't move the needle for us at all. I have no clue why he has become the rallying cry for Bills fans looking to complain about Beane's record.

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by HappyDays

[QCity]

2 hours ago, klos63 said:

Morse had just turned 29 at the time of the 2021 draft, that's not really considered 'aging'. You don't use a 2nd round pick on a position that is all set for a few years to come.

 

It's not that he was aging, it was his concussion history. He already had 5 concussions by 2020 at a position where there's contact on every play. He's a huge question mark to make it through 17 games.

 

During that 2021 draft I wrote that we had a shot to get Josh his Kent Hull for the rest of his career. Unfortunately, Creed Humphrey went to one of the worst possible destinations for us.

[HIT BY SPIKES]

58 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

It's not that he was aging, it was his concussion history. He already had 5 concussions by 2020 at a position where there's contact on every play. He's a huge question mark to make it through 17 games.

 

During that 2021 draft I wrote that we had a shot to get Josh his Kent Hull for the rest of his career. Unfortunately, Creed Humphrey went to one of the worst possible destinations for us.

It was a no brainer but Beane did the his usual 2nd round draft pick nonsense once again.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Swapping late round picks is terrible. Dont they have a RT or LB they could throw in ??

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Swapping late round picks is terrible. Dont they have a RT or LB they could throw in ??

 

 

It’s Boogie Basham… we know him better than any fan base … would you give up assets to acquire him ?

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Swapping late round picks is terrible. Dont they have a RT or LB they could throw in ??

 

 

 

Giants only kept 3 tackles and two of them are two of their last four first rounders. So a RT was never likely. Their depth behind their starters is worse than ours. 

 

As for linebacker... not sure but they just traded for Simmons so....

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Just now, Aussie Joe said:

It’s Boogie Basham… we know him better than any fan base … would you give up assets to acquire him ?

 

He flashed big plays, and i dont think he was that bad. If im trading him im getting another player in return otherwise im just keeping him.

 

 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Giants only kept 3 tackles and two of them are two of their last four first rounders. So a RT was never likely. Their depth behind their starters is worse than ours. 

 

As for linebacker... not sure but they just traded for Simmons so....

 

Then i would have traded him to someone else or keep him.

[Aussie Joe]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

He flashed big plays, and i dont think he was that bad. If im trading him im getting another player in return otherwise im just keeping him.

 

 

 

Then i would have traded him to someone else or keep him.

I assume  no one else wanted him… they kept Kingsley Jonathan instead and by the majority of reports Jonathan beat him out

Edited August 30, 2023 by Aussie Joe

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I assume  no one else wanted him… they kept Kingsley Jonathan instead and by the majority of reports Jonathan beat him out

 

They kept basically 6 defensive ends including Von on PUP. Basham was their 7th DE in their mind. He lost his job because other guys were better. Simple.

[Turk71]

 Ugh

  Beane said he drafted Basham in the 2nd rnd even though he had just taken Rousseau in the 1st, because "he just couldn't pass up his talent". Meanwhile Humphrey has been the best center since he entered the league and he went the very next pick to the arch rival Chiefs, completing their oline overhaul in a single offseason. They are still thanking Beane for the gift. 

 Morse has been in decline since he joined the team imo, the Chiefs let him go at the perfect time and haven't missed a beat. I pounded the table for Humphrey and actually stopped watching the draft after Basham was picked.  What a wasted pick and opportunity. The Bills line has basically sucked the last few years and will almost certainly be mediocre to below average again. Torrance looks like a good pick so far and should help them  improve, but more talent is needed. The tackle group beyond Dawkins is one of the worst in the league, but the Bills are all good and ready to go.

  Luckily having a good offensive line isn't very important and the Bills have been winning SBs without one.

 Also luckily, this is the last time I will rehash my disgust with the Basham pick. 

  P.S. for those saying the Bills had Morse and didn't need a center, Humphrey at 320 lbs is versatile and could play either guard position (according to his draft profile) until replacing Morse(which should have happened by now). The Bills were desperately in need at guard at the time.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Turk71

[NastyNateSoldiers]

17 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

When is Shanahan by that logic?  He gave up 3 firsts and more for Lance who he dumped for a 4th and got literally nothing out of him.

 

Let's stop acting like all picks are homeruns for other teams.

Please don’t go there from 2-53 the 49ers roster crushes ours. I would love to have Shanahan and Lynch over McBeane. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is further proof that you don't pay attention to the Bills. Morse's contract is at the bottom of the list of reasons for why we've failed to get over the hump. Morse has in fact been our most consistent OL since we signed him in 2019.

 

Of course there is always some perfect hindsight hypothetical you could find to replace any medium sized contract with a good player on a rookie contract that the team in question didn't draft... I'm sure your team would much prefer to have Tee Higgins on a rookie deal over MVS's contract, while CEH languishes in 3rd place on the depth chart. But identifying individual draft failures is a pointless exercise.

 

Much worse than Beane's draft record is his free agency record. To use your team as an example, getting JuJu Smith-Schuster with a $3.7 million cap hit compared to us getting Jamsion Crowder for a $2 million cap hit was MUCH MUCH more impactful than the difference between Humphrey and Morse even accounting for Humphrey being quite a bit cheaper. You got a 77% catch percentage reliable 2nd option, we got an IR participant, for the difference of $1.7 million. I'd replace Humphrey AND Morse with our backup center Ryan Bates if it meant I could swap those WRs instead.

 

Beane has given wasteful contracts to the likes of Vernon Butler, Star Lotulelei, and Trent Murphy, while other contenders have gotten value from the likes of Trey Hendrickson, DJ Reader, and Hasson Reddick.

 

If you want to point to a major draft blunder, it was that the last time we had a top 10 pick we took Ed Oliver and then 4 pass rushers drafted after him all ended up being better players (Burns, Wilkins, Lawrence, Simmons). That was our last shot at a top 10 pick possibly ever in the Josh Allen era and we hit a single.

 

All of these errors I've outlined, and more, are far beyond failing to draft a good center when we already had a good center locked up. Humphrey doesn't move the needle for us at all. I have no clue why he has become the rallying cry for Bills fans looking to complain about Beane's record.

 

This Wr love has gone way overboard! 😂 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

24 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

 Ugh

  Beane said he drafted Basham in the 2nd rnd even though he had just taken Rousseau in the 1st, because "he just couldn't pass up his talent". Meanwhile Humphrey has been the best center since he entered the league and he went the very next pick to the arch rival Chiefs, completing their oline overhaul in a single offseason. They are still thanking Beane for the gift. 

 Morse has been in decline since he joined the team imo, the Chiefs let him go at the perfect time and haven't missed a beat. I pounded the table for Humphrey and actually stopped watching the draft after Basham was picked.  What a wasted pick and opportunity. The Bills line has basically sucked the last few years and will almost certainly be mediocre to below average again. Torrance looks like a good pick so far and should help them  improve, but more talent is needed. The tackle group beyond Dawkins is one of the worst in the league, but the Bills are all good and ready to go.

  Luckily having a good offensive line isn't very important and the Bills have been winning SBs without one.

 Also luckily, this is the last time I will rehash my disgust with the Basham pick. 

We love helping the Chiefs become the dynasty they are first we just handed Andy Mahomes then we got DE crazy 2 drafts in a row bypassing a highly rated center/gaurd in Creed Humphrey. McBeane are horrible at the top of the draft there’s no doubt they have no vision or feel for superstar talent yes they hit on and developed Josh Allen other then that it’s been pretty much complete failure at the top of the draft . 

[GunnerBill]

37 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

We love helping the Chiefs become the dynasty they are first we just handed Andy Mahomes then we got DE crazy 2 drafts in a row bypassing a highly rated center/gaurd in Creed Humphrey. McBeane are horrible at the top of the draft there’s no doubt they have no vision or feel for superstar talent yes they hit on and developed Josh Allen other then that it’s been pretty much complete failure at the top of the draft . 

 

Beane has been good in round 1. Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, Rousseau.... that haul stands with the majority of teams over that period A superstar QB and 3 good defensive pIayers who were effective starters from day 1 of their rookie seasons. I think he has been poor on day 2 largely because he has used those two rounds to fill gaps a lot. And that has led to some misses. If it turns out he missed on Elam I think you can probably put that down to the same root cause. Trying to fill gaps. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by GunnerBill

[longtimebillsfan]

18 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

What’s the return?! 

We gave up Boogie and a 7th round pick for a 6th round pick.

[SydneyBillsFan]

What an epic waste of a second round draft pick.

 

Possibly even worse than the 3rd + 7th (corn) frittered away on Kelvin 'lardass' Benjamin.

[eball]

5 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

What an epic waste of a second round draft pick

 

Oh my god, yes.  They’ll be talking about this “epic” gaffe in NFL circles for literally minutes…

 

[boyst]

Wgr is hot taking it this Morning trashing Beane

[Since1981]

I always think draft best available and then shuffle players scheme around. Boogie was poor shoe horn fit.

 

i just can’t believe he was basically given away free. He’s not THAT bad.