Boogie traded to Giants

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, warrior9 said:

I'm sorry? I think you meant divisions. The same division that sent 2 teams to the play offs the last 2 years. So.... you're wrong. 

 

"Beside from Division Titles" is an asinine statement considering it's very hard to win in the NFL.. They've won a few in a row. 

 

And you also realize only 2 teams go to the Super Bowl, correct? The team he helped assemble has been no less than the 5th best team in the league the last 3 years. 

Yes, i meant divisions, which is why I immediately edited it. I'm not interested in Dick Jauron football philosophy, though. Of ocurse it's hard to win - that's why Beane is compensated as one of the top football personnel in the world.

The team has not gotten better in 2 full seasons - peaking in 2020. They haven't gotten past the divisional round since then and are highly unlikely to do so again this year with a roster that's effectively running back a group that was incapable of putting up more than 10 points against the Bengals last year plus a now giant whole at MLB.

How much longer are you going to allow this staff to take credit for Allen single handedly carrying this team? They get a ton of credit for developing him, but the rest of the roster put together is mid at absolute best. Maybe a 7th seed on a good year, but would miss the playoffs more than not.

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

I could be wrong but don’t recall C being a long term question in 2021.  

 

It wasn't.  It's conveniently left out when people discuss Creed Humphrey.  I think the discourse around him was that we could have him play Guard until Morse moves on, but who knows if Humphrey would be any good at OG.

 

That said.. He was the best Center in the draft and we knew Morse only has a few years left, plus the concussion history..  Could've drafted a 10 year fixture at Center for Josh Allen while moving off the cap hit for Morse.  

 

What I do know is that Bills fans overwhelmingly hated the Boogie pick... just like they overwhelmingly have criticized the RD3 RB/LB picks.  

 

Beane really needs Bernard or Williams to be the long term MLB, because the Day 2 picks have been horrendous (and yes I include Singletary because he is a JAG and always has been).

 

Hopefully with Cook and Torrence, our Day 2 fortunes are turning around. 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by SCBills

[Gunsgoodtime]

44 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

You take your medicine with a bad pick and move forward.

Beane and his scouts know the blew that pick.  Hope they learned their lesson.

Looking back is worthless IMO.  

The Pharmacist is getting tired

[BADOLBILZ]

57 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Beane has been tossing his 2nd round picks in the garbage since he became GM.

 

 

Beane has the same issue so many Bills GM's have had in round 2, IMO.   

 

After months of focusing on getting the best player they can in round 1..........he seems to get satisfied and switch the focus to "immediate need" in round 2.

 

Whaley did the same thing most recently.  

 

So many Bills GM's have.........that's why(AJ Epenesa not withstanding to this point) the Bills hit rate on 2nd rounders has been much higher in years where they didn't have a first rounder and don't blow their brains out in round 1.

 

Studs like Thurman Thomas and Sam Cowart and a very effective Ronald Darby.......versus Roscoe Parrish being the only real proven miss.

 

 You can't expect to be successful reaching over quality to fill needs.

 

That said........the people who are up in arms about Creed Humphrey forget that center hasn't been an issue for the Bills.    Yes, it wasn't a good draft in general so there were a lot of bad picks after Basham too.   But Mitch Morse was under a weighty contract and will likely give them another solid season and then the pressure will be on the Chiefs to make Humphrey the highest paid center EVER.    That's not a formula for success either.    BPA at premium positions is still the way to go.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Huh?  Milano, Knox, Davis, T. Johnson, Bass are singles and doubles?  And he hit the biggest homerun of all in Allen.

 

Man, this board LOVES to exaggerate.  Yes, we all want Beane to hit on more of his 1-3 picks.  No question.

 

 

For the 100th time, he didnt draft Milano.

 

None of those other guys are "homeruns". Homeruns being star, game-changers. They are definitely solid. Especially for their late round pick status. But that's the whole point. We are talking about the ability to find superstars in the 1st and 2nd rounds. Those players are all nice late round finds. We've established he can do that.

 

 

[DCofNC]

7 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

So that's Beane's fault Frazier was playing cover 4 in a snow game? 

It's Beane's fault that Frazier's Defense couldn't stop the Chiefs for 13 seconds? 

 

Are you telling me the talent wasn't there to win those games? 

So whose fault is it?  It’s all the coaches? MCD couldn’t stop the call?  Or what?

[ColoradoBills]

Just now, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I firmly predict that Kingsley Jonathan made the team and Von Miller will still be on PUP.

 

There is a chance of that.  Then when Miller comes back one of Kingsley or Shaq get cut.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

It wasn't.  It's conveniently left out when people discuss Creed Humphrey.  I think the discourse around him was that we could have him play Guard until Morse moves on, but who knows if Humphrey would be any good at OG.

 

That said.. He was the best Center in the draft and we knew Morse only has a few years left, plus the concussion history..  Could've drafted a 10 year fixture at Center for Josh Allen while moving off the cap hit for Morse.  

 

What I do know is that Bills fans overwhelmingly hated the Boogie pick... just like they overwhelmingly have struggled with the RD3 RB/LB picks.  

 

Beane really needs Bernard or Williams to be the long term MLB, because the Day 2 picks have been horrendous (and yes I include Singletary because he is a JAG and always has been).

 

Hopefully with Cook and Torrence, our Day 2 fortunes are turning around. 

Eric Wood started at OG.

 

There are a lot of OL between the Basham pick and the Brown pick worthy of being picked. I can’t get too mad because DE was definitely weak and we needed multiple younger players at the position. Basham was a good prospect.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[BarleyNY]

4 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

Sometimes I feel like Beane and Co. try to overthink these scenarios and wanna look like the "smartest guy in the room" where he should have just gone for the safer bet

I think Beane has been doing the shopping off of McDermott’s grocery list until possibly this draft. The Bills defense has been built on excellent talent and a scheme that is very solid, but not very innovative. I’ve harped on this until this off-season, but the offense had been at a resource disadvantage to the defense. That’s still the case, but this off-season might be indicative of that changing. I think it needs to to make the Bills more competitive in the playoffs. It’ll also tell us what kind of DC McDermott is when he can’t fix every problem with a $30M/yr FA or first or second round draft pick. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Don’t forget keeping the trash we had at RB, to cut Blackshear who went on to perform just as well in the regular season as he did here in preseason, only to ditch the trash after the fact and need a replacement.

 

Blackshear has been impressive with his 23 carries with 77 yards rushing at 3.4 yards per carry in the regular season.  

[Cash]

34 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

I think people are just commenting on this trade because its a tacit admission by the FO that they blew this pick.  The "averages 2 sacks a year" part is exactly why it's relevant.

 

Exactly.  Props to the Bills for having the guts, but this is unquestionably an admission of failure on their part.  A 2nd round pick at a premium position with 2 years of cost control on his contract is an asset on paper.  If the Bills thought there was a realistic chance that Boogie would live up to his potential, they wouldn't let him go for just a late round pick swap.

 

19 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

Maybe, while acknowledging that it was a poor draft pick, we might give them credit for cutting Basham loose if they have other players who can do what he does. A better move than to fall prey to the Sunk Cost fallacy. 

 

Tentatively agreed, but it ultimately matters whether the Bills are right or wrong.  If Boogie puts up 10 sacks for the Giants this year, the Bills should be heavily criticized for essentially giving him away.  (Now I think it's unlikely that happens, but that's why they play the games.)  As one of the last "Isaiah Hodgins can be a good player" holdouts, it was a bummer watching him break out last year while we were stuck with Jake Kumerow as our top outside WR backup.  And obviously no Bills fan was psyched to see Wyatt Teller turn into an all-star in Cleveland.  I don't expect a repeat here with Basham, but if it did happen?  The Bills would and should be raked over the coals at that point.

 

On the other hand, if Boogie is completely invisible for the next 2 years, then I salute the Bills for admitting their mistake and moving on.

[DCofNC]

8 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

I could be wrong but don’t recall C being a long term question in 2021.  

Morse being one Concussion away from retired and having missed time here because of them made it a real question mark.  Worst case, you could have off loaded a bloated contract for a middle of the road, aging player.

[Nephilim17]

Here's an article on Kingsley Johnathan's good preseason and the Bill's D-line depth being the "best of McDermott's era."

Look, I don't like using a 2nd round pick (29th in that round, btw) on a player who doesn't work out but if the Bill's really like Johnathan that's a mitigating factor here. McDermott has been preaching that unless you're Josh or Steph or Von that you have to earn your way onto the field and he can't do that if an undrafted free agent is playing really well but doesn't get rewarded for his hard and smart work. It's a message to the whole team (and we're seeing that with Elam, who may still become a starter by the some point this season).

My guess is that by mid season with Von, Floyd, Rousseau, AJ and company we will have a good pash rush. People need to vent but let's revisit the state of the D-line room in a few months and see if it's in bad shape or not.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/kingsley-jonathans-numbers-battle-shows-bills-d-line-depth-is-best-of-mcdermott-era/article_870deeee-4459-11ee-b83b-9b2839d5c2f2.html

Edited August 29, 2023 by Nephilim17

[jwhit34]

Good chance Miller is activated off PUP. If so, the 4 DEs getting playing time are Rousseau, Miller, Floyd and AJE.

 

The interesting play in terms of roster manipulation would be to have Miller on the 53, K. Jonathan as DE5, Lawson cut and signed to practice squad (not subject to waivers). MIller can practice right away. Then if Miller isn't ready week 1 or 2 you elevate Lawson. That would be the carrot for him, he'd get a couple of game checks in the first 2 weeks. 

 

[warrior9]

5 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

So whose fault is it?  It’s all the coaches? MCD couldn’t stop the call?  Or what?

Beane's job is to put talent there. Are you telling me there wasn't talent there to win those games? 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, jwhit34 said:

Good chance Miller is activated off PUP. If so, the 4 DEs getting playing time are Rousseau, Miller, Floyd and AJE.

 

The interesting play in terms of roster manipulation would be to have Miller on the 53, K. Jonathan as DE5, Lawson cut and signed to practice squad (not subject to waivers). MIller can practice right away. Then if Miller isn't ready week 1 or 2 you elevate Lawson. That would be the carrot for him, he'd get a couple of game checks in the first 2 weeks. 

 

 

That is a possibility.  I still believe von is PUP and we will find out in the next few hours.

[DCofNC]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Blackshear has been impressive with his 23 carries with 77 yards rushing at 3.4 yards per carry in the regular season.  

On a trash team, behind a garbage line, without practice time.   How’s Moss doing?  How would the extra salary cap be helpful?  How about we stop wasting picks on RBs that can be matched by UDFA or 7th rounders?  I guess if you plan to use second round picks on DEs to give to your buddies team 2 years later as a backup and 3rd round picks on guys who can’t even contribute on STs, Beane’s plan is killing it.

1 minute ago, warrior9 said:

Beane's job is to put talent there. Are you telling me there wasn't talent there to win those games? 

How is it that the Bengals completely mopped the Bills on both sides of the ball and the only player you would pick on the Bills roster over theirs would be QB, which is still debatable? 

[4merper4mer]

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Blackshear has been impressive with his 23 carries with 77 yards rushing at 3.4 yards per carry in the regular season.  

But a little extrapolation and he could have had 2300 Carrie’s for 7679 yards even accounting for wear and tear.

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

There is a chance of that.  Then when Miller comes back one of Kingsley or Shaq get cut.

 

….or mysteriously wind up on IR. 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

 

That said.. He was the best Center in the draft and we knew Morse only has a few years left, plus the concussion history..  Could've drafted a 10 year fixture at Center for Josh Allen while moving off the cap hit for Morse.  

 

 

 

10 years and 6 of those years are probably going to cost upwards of $120M.

 

Plus the cost of dumping Morse with a ton of dead cap left.

 

The Humphrey argument for the Bills always made about as much sense as the Bills drafting Willis McGahee when they already had Travis Henry rushing for over 1,000 yards at a time when RB by committee wasn't a thing.

 

In the league today,  the center position has never been less important.    Watch Creed Humphrey.........half of the time in pass pro he is blocking air.   It's not a run and stuff the run league where you need a Kevin Mawae to control a Ted Washington in the middle.

 

When the Bills get out from under the Morse deal........hopefully they have a good center for a fraction of what Humphrey will get paid.