PSE has been "Dissolved"

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes, predictions are what you do when looking into the future.  We got a glimpse of the future for defense last year by the name of Levi.  And he looked pretty damn good.

 

They've also improved the defense/depth.

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

They've also improved the defense/depth.

Also true.  But some never let facts get in the way of opinions.

 

As far as team ownership and such my impression was always that Terry was a hockey nut and jumped at the chance to buy the Sabres, but it was Kim and her passion for the Bills growing up in WNY that drive them to buy the Bills.

Edited August 31, 2023 by oldmanfan

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Also true.  But some never let facts get in the way of opinions.

 

As far as team ownership and such my impression was always that Terry was a hockey nut and jumped at the chance to buy the Sabres, but it was Kim and her passion for the Bills growing up in WNY that drive them to buy the Bills.

 

Probably on both accounts.  But buying the Bills was a no-brainer. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Another know-nothing going on about the Sabres future. 😄

 

 

[Doc]

19 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

A study by bidders who live in Toronto?  So what?  Ralph’s ghost put a poison pill in the sales contract re: moving the team.
 

You were taken in by your boy again Do c.  The “noise” (moving to Toronto) WAS the scam.  It was orchestrated and worked to perfection.  All involved have admitted this.  

 

Yeah, if there was no way to get out of moving the team, why bother commissioning a study?  The answer: there was a period after which the team could easily be moved.

 

And who cares how it happened or what "my boy" did?  That's the nature of business.  And in the end we got the best owner.  No need for your hair band boy.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah, if there was no way to get out of moving the team, why bother commissioning a study?  The answer: there was a period after which the team could easily be moved.

 

And who cares how it happened or what "my boy" did?  That's the nature of business.  And in the end we got the best owner.  No need for your hair band boy.

 

 

Ask Bob Kraft.  He fooled everyone in your town except you.  Yet this scheme cooked up by one famous swindler got you hook line and sinker.

 

 

Anyway, there was a way out, but it would be very expensive until the lease ran out (when, Ironically, "the guy who saved the Bills from moving to Toronto" threatened to move the team if he wasn't gifted a new stadium! can't make THIS stuff up  lol).  Plus, the Bills stipulated that any bidder that mentioned or was found to be planning to move the team could not participate in the bidding process.  So obviously the trust overseeing the bids didn't believe the team would be moved. 

 

The "moving to Toronto" stuff was a complete and well orchestrated fabrication, that's all. Why anyone would still believe this, in 2023,  after all that became public knowledge years ago, is employing willful ignorance.

[Doc]

30 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Ask Bob Kraft.  He fooled everyone in your town except you.  Yet this scheme cooked up by one famous swindler got you hook line and sinker.

 

 

Anyway, there was a way out, but it would be very expensive until the lease ran out (when, Ironically, "the guy who saved the Bills from moving to Toronto" threatened to move the team if he wasn't gifted a new stadium! can't make THIS stuff up  lol).  Plus, the Bills stipulated that any bidder that mentioned or was found to be planning to move the team could not participate in the bidding process.  So obviously the trust overseeing the bids didn't believe the team would be moved. 

 

The "moving to Toronto" stuff was a complete and well orchestrated fabrication, that's all. Why anyone would still believe this, in 2023,  after all that became public knowledge years ago, is employing willful ignorance.

 

Thank you.  You always come around (as for the "irony," don't kid yourself.  They wouldn't have done the exact same thing Terry did with the stadium, assuming they decided to stay, which wasn't worth finding out the hard way). 

 

But you can still pine for them if you like.  Once Terry became owner of the Sabres, the Bills were always going to be his once he got the money.  You are correct that it was complete and well orchestrated.

[May Day 10]

The idea that Trump and Caputo 'fooled' us into thinking Bon Jovi was in a Toronto based group looking to move the Bills to Toronto is foolish and is a revisionist 

 

We were onto Bon Jovi even before Ralph Wilson died.  It was pretty much public knowledge if you were paying attention

https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/jon-bon-jovi-mlse-give-toronto-inside-track-on-buffalo-bills-kelly/article_f3c8277d-d282-54f6-b107-6ecf7a81bd46.html

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/jon-bon-jovi-may-be-positioning-himself-to-buy-the-buffalo-bills-and-move-the-team-to-toronto-2013-11

Edited August 31, 2023 by May Day 10

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Thank you.  You always come around (as for the "irony," don't kid yourself.  They wouldn't have done the exact same thing Terry did with the stadium, assuming they decided to stay, which wasn't worth finding out the hard way). 

 

But you can still pine for them if you like.  Once Terry became owner of the Sabres, the Bills were always going to be his once he got the money.  You are correct that it was complete and well orchestrated.

 
they were never going to move.  Only a few still refuse to believe that.  
 

Pine for who?  As long as the team has competent, non meddling ownership, who cares who owns the Bills?  Or any team, right?
 

I’m just pointing out your continued folly of belief.  You’ll by any BS that guy wants you to.  

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

The idea that Trump and Caputo 'fooled' us into thinking Bon Jovi was in a Toronto based group looking to move the Bills to Toronto is foolish and is a revisionist 

 

We were onto Bon Jovi even before Ralph Wilson died.  It was pretty much public knowledge if you were paying attention

https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/jon-bon-jovi-mlse-give-toronto-inside-track-on-buffalo-bills-kelly/article_f3c8277d-d282-54f6-b107-6ecf7a81bd46.html

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/jon-bon-jovi-may-be-positioning-himself-to-buy-the-buffalo-bills-and-move-the-team-to-toronto-2013-11

yes those articles detail who the guy’s Canadian partners are. That was the “public knowledge”.  Partners from Canada naturally raise the question of might the team move.  Noting in those articles details any plan to move.  Soon after the second article you cited was published, Trumps plan was devised (no doubt picking up on this speculation and pumping it up as inevitable.   
 

it was no more likely to happen then Pegula moving the team if he didn’t get everything he wanted for this new stadium.  
 

you really weren’t “onto” anything, it turns out.  

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

The idea that Trump and Caputo 'fooled' us into thinking Bon Jovi was in a Toronto based group looking to move the Bills to Toronto is foolish and is a revisionist 

 

We were onto Bon Jovi even before Ralph Wilson died.  It was pretty much public knowledge if you were paying attention

https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/jon-bon-jovi-mlse-give-toronto-inside-track-on-buffalo-bills-kelly/article_f3c8277d-d282-54f6-b107-6ecf7a81bd46.html

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/jon-bon-jovi-may-be-positioning-himself-to-buy-the-buffalo-bills-and-move-the-team-to-toronto-2013-11

 

Forget it.  I always knew that WEO didn't like Terry because of the fracking.  Now I realize this is/it also may be some anti-Trump screed.  

 

Again I don't care how Terry got the team.  Owning both the Sabres and Bills made too much sense and the results since he took over the Bills can't be denied.  I wish I could be "fooled" into better outcomes all the time...

[RiotAct]

I think (hope) we can all agree that if Trump or Bon Jovi had bought the Bills, it more than likely would NOT have ended well for WNY fans.

[Doc]

Just now, RiotAct said:

I think (hope) we can all agree that if Trump or Bon Jovi had bought the Bills, it more than likely would NOT have ended well for WNY fans.

 

Maybe, maybe not.  But it wasn't worth finding out, not when Terry was right there.

[May Day 10]

50 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

yes those articles detail who the guy’s Canadian partners are. That was the “public knowledge”.  Partners from Canada naturally raise the question of might the team move.  Noting in those articles details any plan to move.  Soon after the second article you cited was published, Trumps plan was devised (no doubt picking up on this speculation and pumping it up as inevitable.   
 

it was no more likely to happen then Pegula moving the team if he didn’t get everything he wanted for this new stadium.  
 

you really weren’t “onto” anything, it turns out.  

 

He had Canadian partners who were vested in the city and Canadian media.  Tim Lieweke is a guy who's career role is seeking teams for relocation.

 

Once Wilson died and the team was for sale, the Toronto team entered the process to buy the team.  They clammed up about relocation and Toronto because that is how these things work.   If they were successful, they would claim they were proud owners of the Buffalo Bills... but oh would you look here... you have a stadium that needs replacing.  We "need" $X and $Y (unattainable) or... oh shucks, we will have to explore other options.  Other options explored in Toronto, stadium greenlit, not official until near the end of the lease, 1 or 2 lame duck seasons, and see-ya.  There is no way that Toronto group was just going to own the team in Buffalo into perpetuity.  I would bet most/all NFL owners were salivating at the opportunity.

 

The existence of Pegula, his dedication to Buffalo, and his liquidity (as well as the timing of RW's death so early in the lease) made it virtually impossible for the Bon Jovi/MLSE group (or any out of town group) without the full weight of Rogers to buy the team, build a stadium, pay the relocation fee, and possibly pay off the NRA.  

 

The Trump story (embellished like he chronically does) creates a neat story for Bon Jovi that makes him more relevant, and also saves face as a good salt of the Earth guy with no enemies in the world who would buy a team in a small city and keep it local.  It also excuses his failure to obtain the franchise.   That's why he doesn't deny it.  Its a nice convenient story and creates a mythology.

 

I have no doubt Caputo distributed some fliers and got some local bar owners to join in on some Bon Jovi hate.  But that is hardly sabotaging the purchase of the team.  I do not know how that affected the $s Bon Jovi's group were able to pay.  

 

If you think that group with Bon Jovi, Lieweke, MLSE, and Rogers were going to buy the Bills at $1.4 Billion, allow them to stay in Buffalo, I guess we have to agree to disagree.  An NFL franchise in Toronto would end up worth double what they are currently worth.

Edited August 31, 2023 by May Day 10

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

 

He had Canadian partners who were vested in the city and Canadian media.  Tim Lieweke is a guy who's career role is seeking teams for relocation.

 

Once Wilson died and the team was for sale, the Toronto team entered the process to buy the team.  They clammed up about relocation and Toronto because that is how these things work.   If they were successful, they would claim they were proud owners of the Buffalo Bills... but oh would you look here... you have a stadium that needs replacing.  We "need" $X and $Y (unattainable) or... oh shucks, we will have to explore other options.  Other options explored in Toronto, stadium greenlit, not official until near the end of the lease, 1 or 2 lame duck seasons, and see-ya.  There is no way that Toronto group was just going to own the team in Buffalo into perpetuity.  I would bet most/all NFL owners were salivating at the opportunity.

 

The existence of Pegula, his dedication to Buffalo, and his liquidity (as well as the timing of RW's death so early in the lease) made it virtually impossible for the Bon Jovi/MLSE group (or any out of town group) without the full weight of Rogers to buy the team, build a stadium, pay the relocation fee, and possibly pay off the NRA.  

 

The Trump story (embellished like he chronically does) creates a neat story for Bon Jovi that makes him more relevant, and also saves face as a good salt of the Earth guy with no enemies in the world who would buy a team in a small city and keep it local.  It also excuses his failure to obtain the franchise.   That's why he doesn't deny it.  Its a nice convenient story and creates a mythology.

 

I have no doubt Caputo distributed some fliers and got some local bar owners to join in on some Bon Jovi hate.  But that is hardly sabotaging the purchase of the team.  I do not know how that affected the $s Bon Jovi's group were able to pay.  

 

If you think that group with Bon Jovi, Lieweke, MLSE, and Rogers were going to buy the Bills at $1.4 Billion, allow them to stay in Buffalo, I guess we have to agree to disagree.  An NFL franchise in Toronto would end up worth double what they are currently worth.

 

1. we all know/knew who his Canadian partners were.  EVERYBODY was speculating that they might move the team north (because they are from Canada!).  That's why Trump made this move.

 

2.  any bidder was going to squeeze the public for a new stadium at the end of the Ralph lease.  That's not even worth mentioning. There was no canadian stadium waiting.  Likewise, any bidder would know they had a better chance of getting a heavily subsidized stadium that would be far cheaper for them than a relocation fee and kicking in for a new stadium somewhere else (as you pointed out).  Moving would have been incredibly expensive.  That group didn't have that cash money for all this. 

 

3.  "The NRA"?? they were in on this too??  wow!!

 

4. reports were that Bon Jovi group had 1.3 billion offer on the table.  

 

5.  The "Trump story" obviously wasn't told by Trump--in fact, his involvement was kept secret throughout.  The entire scheme was cooked up because Trump could not get his lender to sign off a statement verifying his net worth....because he constantly lies about it.  Plus he didn't want to bid over 1 billion (which he was only putting up 20% in cash).  So he had Caputo cook up this scheme to trash the JBG group. It's not "mythology". Once Trump made his bid, he "disassociated" with the group---but it went to the next level with Caputo.

 

6.  the scheme didn't consist of "distributing some fliers' by "Caputo" (lol):

 

"With Trump having removed himself from the picture, Caputo took the gloves off. "We immediately made it far more aggressive and anti-Toronto than the president ever envisioned, mostly because we didn't have to worry about getting him crossways with the NFL," he said.

The group gathered thousands of signatures for a petition demanding the team remain in Buffalo and started a "Ban Bon Jovi" movement to rid upstate New York of the New Jersey rocker's music. A local radio station, Jack FM, started playing a version of "Livin' on a Prayer" with new lyrics that went, "Johnny used to get played on Jack / Now he wants our Bills / But Buffalo just won't take that / He's wack."

It generated so much noise and color that Texas A&M, which has trademarked the phrase "12th man" took notice and sent a cease-and-desist letter to the group over its use of the phrase."

 

there's more detail in this article:https://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-shady-scheme-to-buy-nfl-buffalo-bills

 

7.  "double what they are currently worth" would place them at 7.4 billion--that would make them the 2nd most valuable team in the NFL.  There is zero chance that moving the Bills to out of the country would make them the 2nd most valuable team in the league.  That's laughable.

 

[boyst]

I was wrong after speaking with someone this past weekend

 

Pegula is not going to sell the team. Rumors by others in media were not accurate.