Speculation and discussion on Bills final roster cuts

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Siran Neal is not going anywhere. He's the only backup Nickel CB, our only "big nickel", and a core Special Teams player. They value him and that's why he makes what he makes. Fans constantly want to move on from him, but it's not even a thought to the decision makers.

Neal is horrible in coverage. I get his value on ST but with the rules making the return game lesser and lesser (see KO fair catch rule) I don't think ST coverage guys should stick around more then 4 years if don't contribute elsewhere.

[MasterStrategist]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Siran Neal is not going anywhere. He's the only backup Nickel CB, our only "big nickel", and a core Special Teams player. They value him and that's why he makes what he makes. Fans constantly want to move on from him, but it's not even a thought to the decision makers.

Not to nitpick, but Cam is also fully capable of playing nickel.  In fact listed as #2 on depth chart.  I really think that's Neal's role though, in addition to S/T.

 

Neal is not really a "big nickel", unless I'm thinking of that incorrectly.  Thought that's typically a 3rd safety, I view Neal as a corner at this point. He's never been used in our defense as a safety.  I'd say Rapp is our big nickel.

 

But I'm all for going more  traditional "dime" looks this season, on obvious passing downs. 4-1-6, take our MLB off the field and bring in Neal.  Adds more speed, and frees up Milanos responsibilities.

[Solomon Grundy]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

Neal is horrible in coverage. I get his value on ST but with the rules making the return game lesser and lesser (see KO fair catch rule) I don't think ST coverage guys should stick around more then 4 years if don't contribute elsewhere.

I'd rather JaMarcus Ingram

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

11 DBs feels too much, Siran Neal and Cam Lewis would be the two I'd move on from.

 

As you can see Siran Neal is untouchable.  Both are NCB backups on the Bills Depth Chart.

Actually, Cam is 2nd string.  That might be trade bait stuff.

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Solomon Grundy said:

I'd rather JaMarcus Ingram

Keep Ingram on the PS and bring him up when someone gets hurt.

[MiltonWaddams]

12 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

As you can see Siran Neal is untouchable.  Both are NCB backups on the Bills Depth Chart.

Actually, Cam is 2nd string.  That might be trade bait stuff.

In defence of Siran, he did play really well in the last two preseason games.

[Yantha]

I'd drop Siran Neal for Desmond King, cut by Houston.

[Ralonzo]

32 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

So yeah, for us to bring back another LB or WR, we'll have to make a cut or two. 

 

So I still think Anderson is not long for this roster after the Ifedi signing. But again, we will see.

 

Dropping Anderson for a recycled backup is the kind of mistake an also-ran franchise make and that the Bills made for the entirety of the 21st century prior to this regime. I don't believe they kept him through the initial 53 just to cut him now. He'll never clear waivers with the tape he laid down this preseason and some team will get a 10-year player for even less than the Browns got Teller for.

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Poona has experience and good game film for what they're looking for. Too often we put too much stake in Pre-Season play. The plays we see during the Pre-Season are not even a sniff of the actual playbook.

 

Ankou has been with the team for about 2 years longer than Poona. I don't the playbook is the problem. Ankou ranged from disruptive to dominant in a large percentage of his reps, Poona was the weak link for most of his. Unless what they looking for from Poona is getting blocked easily by a guard?

Edited August 30, 2023 by Ralonzo

[Yantha]

15 minutes ago, Yantha said:

I'd drop Siran Neal for Desmond King, cut by Houston.

 

This is a great "film study" video of King talking with Baldinger (watch on youtube).  Smart kid who knows the game.

 

Move on from Siran Neal please....

 

 

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

Shorter's size makes him a red zone threat. Harris offers that as well. I agree Evans showed some things and wouldn't mind him on the PS.

In all honesty, how many red zone targets would you expect Shorter to get? I don’t think he’s reliable enough. 

4 minutes ago, Yantha said:

 

This is a great "film study" video of King talking with Baldinger (watch on youtube).  Smart kid who knows the game.

 

Move on from Siran Neal please....

 

 

Siran Neal is not going anywhere. 

[Warriorspikes51]

1 hour ago, NeverOutNick said:

Sure hope it’s not Anderson on the outs. Maybe it’s one of the 25 DBs we have or the no reason he should be on the squad Matakavich 

it should be one of the 6 LBs

 

 

Nicely done Beane. A halfway decent former 1st round OT to backup Spencer. Reasonable chance he gets a bunch of games.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[folz]

1 hour ago, balln said:

That’s only way THIS roster does it. Allen and Kincaid. OuR D is going to be trash

 

What on Earth makes you think that? 

 

Last year, the Bills defense was 1st in yards against, 2nd in points against, and 5th in takeaways, despite all of the injuries. The only loss of any significance this year is Tremaine Edmunds (and now Boogie if you can even count him).

 

Additions: Leonard Flyod, Poona Ford, Dorian Williams, Taylor Rapp.

 

Plus you could include Micah Hyde as an addition from last year (since he only played 2 games last season), Von Miller and Jordan Philips both missed 8 games last year, Tredavious didn't play until weeks 11/12 and still wasn't fully back from his knee injury yet, Poyer was playing through multiple severe injuries all year.

 

And our 3 young corners have another year under their belts now (for 11 games last year we were starting Dane and one of the rookies...now we only need 1 of these three guys to be starting at any time).

 

And McDermott looks to call a more aggressive defense than Frasier did.

 

Do you really think losing Tremaine Edmunds brings us from being a top 2 defense to trash? Especially with everything else mentioned above? I think you'd have a hard time convincing me that we won't actually be a better defense this year than we were last season. Besides, I don't think they wanted a Tremaine replacement anyhow. They are obviously going in a different direction with that position (they didn't just forget it). 

[CNYfan]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

11 DBs feels too much, Siran Neal and Cam Lewis would be the two I'd move on from.

I felt it had to be a choice between Lewis or Hamlin.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Siran Neal is not going anywhere. He's the only backup Nickel CB, our only "big nickel", and a core Special Teams player. They value him and that's why he makes what he makes. Fans constantly want to move on from him, but it's not even a thought to the decision makers.

 

I think it was a "thought", especially with some pretty strong competition in the form of Taylor Rapp (who can play nickel), Cam Lewis (who they have developed as a nickel) and then Zayne Anderson on ST and a couple of talented young corners.  He's no longer the only backup nickel CB or "big nickel".

 

But from everything that was reported, Neal played like his ass was on fire and tackling would put it out through preseason.  He earned his shot.

 

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Core Special Teams is integral to this regime and he is our Special Teams captain. He's not going anywhere. Pretty sure his contract is in such a way that he'd be more expensive to cut than keep as well.

 

It would raise his cap hit, since he's got a void year for 2024 that would move into this year if cut.  Matakevich contract is also fully guaranteed $2.5M

 

 

28 minutes ago, folz said:

Do you really think losing Tremaine Edmunds brings us from being a top 2 defense to trash? Especially with everything else mentioned above? I think you'd have a hard time convincing me that we won't actually be a better defense this year than we were last season. Besides, I don't think they wanted a Tremaine replacement anyhow. They are obviously going in a different direction with that position (they didn't just forget it). 

 

Let's put it this way.  McDermott and Frazier managed a defense that was just below average (#18) in 2017 and 2018 with lesser talent at LB - well, pretty much anywhere except safety, actually. 

 

I don't expect the defense to be #2 overall this season.  I think there will be mistakes, and we'll be gashed from time to time.  But I think it will be good enough to win with most of the time.  I don't think it will be trash.

 

And I could always be pleasantly surprised.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

1 hour ago, MasterStrategist said:

Not to nitpick, but Cam is also fully capable of playing nickel.  In fact listed as #2 on depth chart.  I really think that's Neal's role though, in addition to S/T.

 

Neal is not really a "big nickel", unless I'm thinking of that incorrectly.  Thought that's typically a 3rd safety, I view Neal as a corner at this point. He's never been used in our defense as a safety.  I'd say Rapp is our big nickel.

 

But I'm all for going more  traditional "dime" looks this season, on obvious passing downs. 4-1-6, take our MLB off the field and bring in Neal.  Adds more speed, and frees up Milanos responsibilities.

I always think of Neal as a S when I see him because of how much he sucks as a corner. Everytime I see this guy I’m like, why is he on the team still? Then I remember we are the 1 team left in the league that doesn’t realize STs has been basically phased out. The last team standing that thinks it’s still important. As if the guys that play real positions couldn’t handle STs…

[uninja]

33 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think it was a "thought", especially with some pretty strong competition in the form of Taylor Rapp (who can play nickel), Cam Lewis (who they have developed as a nickel) and then Zayne Anderson on ST and a couple of talented young corners.  He's no longer the only backup nickel CB or "big nickel".

 

But from everything that was reported, Neal played like his ass was on fire and tackling would put it out through preseason.  He earned his shot.

 

 

It would raise his cap hit, since he's got a void year for 2024 that would move into this year if cut.  Matakevich contract is also fully guaranteed $2.5M

 

 

 

Let's put it this way.  McDermott and Frazier managed a defense that was just below average (#18) in 2017 and 2018 with lesser talent at LB - well, pretty much anywhere except safety, actually. 

 

I don't expect the defense to be #2 overall this season.  I think there will be mistakes, and we'll be gashed from time to time.  But I think it will be good enough to win with most of the time.  I don't think it will be trash.

 

And I could always be pleasantly surprised.

 

Spagnulo's and Anarumo's defenses are always somewhere in the middle of the pack and it's enough to get them to the Super Bowl or the AFC title game year after year. We shouldn't need the best defense in the league to get to and win a Super Bowl.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, MiltonWaddams said:

In defence of Siran, he did play really well in the last two preseason games.

Best camp/preseason of his career. Maybe he finally got it.

[folz]

18 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Let's put it this way.  McDermott and Frazier managed a defense that was just below average (#18) in 2017 and 2018 with lesser talent at LB - well, pretty much anywhere except safety, actually. 

 

I don't expect the defense to be #2 overall this season.  I think there will be mistakes, and we'll be gashed from time to time.  But I think it will be good enough to win with most of the time.  I don't think it will be trash.

 

And I could always be pleasantly surprised.

 

I agree that we may not reach the #2 rank again (so much goes into that, strength of opponents, etc.), but I do think we will be a better overall defense than we were last year...provided we stay relatively healthy. I think Tremaine was a better player than some of his detractors give him credit for, but he was by no means a special player. His height made it more difficult for QBs to throw deep middle/seam routes, but otherwise, he did not stand out in any other area (including that MLB type of aggression and attitude---no players feared him). He was not great in the run game or in coverage, and he didn't make many key/important or splash plays. 

 

Over his 5 years with the Bills, Tremaine averaged per year: 113 tackles, 1.3 sacks, 1 interception, 0.4 forced fumbles. So, fewer than 1.5 sacks and 1.5 turnovers per season...that's it. The tackle totals don't look bad, I guess, until you realize that 51 players had more tackles than Tremaine last year (of course that includes safeties too, not just LBs).

 

Even if we had to start Dodson all year, I just don't think it is going to be that big of a drop off (compared to what we've gained or got back in other areas). Do you not think Dodson could get 102 tackles, 1 sack, 1 INT if he started all year? That's all he'd need to match Tremaine's 2022 stats. But I think the real plan is to have the smaller, faster backers, who are all good in coverage and can all tackle well (Milano, Bernard, Williams, Spector) play more (and you can probably include Siran/Rapp 😁 in that equation too) ...and then your Dodsons and Kleins (if he's signed back) are there for more obvious run-heavy teams or game situations. We need to finally be able to stop those quick slants and screens of KC, Miami, Cinci. Height over the middle doesn't help if they can just complete the passes in front of you and you can't corral those guys.

 

I think we need to stop thinking about the position as some traditional middle linebacker spot (we aren't a traditional 4-3 or 3-4 defense). We need to see it more like LB left and LB right. I think they were hoping that Bernard would grab the spot, maybe with Williams to add in more as the season wore on. But Williams is best served behind Milano right now, and Bernard's injury pushed Dodson forward for the time being (obviously Spector wasn't ready for a promotion).

 

[Beck Water]

40 minutes ago, uninja said:

 

Spagnulo's and Anarumo's defenses are always somewhere in the middle of the pack and it's enough to get them to the Super Bowl or the AFC title game year after year. We shouldn't need the best defense in the league to get to and win a Super Bowl.

 

Bengals D #5 last year.  Eagles #8.
True that Spags/Chiefs #16 last season, but they were top-10 the 3 previous years, #7 the previous Chiefs SB win.  

 

I think you don't need a top-3 D to win the Superbowl but top-10 with the ability to step up in big games, for sure helps.

 

But, as you point out, it's been done with worse.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, uninja said:

 

Spagnulo's and Anarumo's defenses are always somewhere in the middle of the pack and it's enough to get them to the Super Bowl or the AFC title game year after year. We shouldn't need the best defense in the league to get to and win a Super Bowl.

They always seem to show up in huge moments in the playoffs though…the regular season ranking doesn’t always tell the whole story. 
 

And even so, cincy was 6th in points allowed per game last year in the regular season and kc is usually hovering around the top 10. 2022 they were 8th and 2021 they were 11th.  
 

The rams are the only other Super Bowl winner with a defense outside the top 10 in points allowed per game in the last 10 years.  Both those rams and chiefs Super Bowl teams got huge sacks when they needed them though, chiefs were second in sacks in 2023 and the rams were third in 2022.  

Breakdown of scoring defenses for Super Bowl winners is:

Chiefs    16th

rams      16th

Bucs      8th

Chiefs    8th

Pats       7th

Eagles   4th

Pats       1st

Broncos 1st

Pats       8th(should’ve been Seahawks 1st lol)

Seahawks 1st

 

Of the four teams that made it to the conference finals last year, three of them were top 10 scoring defenses.  6 of the top 7 made the playoffs…only one that didn’t was the jets 

defensive football is still very much alive, but things are starting to shift to who can come up with those big sacks to get a clutch stop when they need one the last few years.  That’s really the only way to slow down the Allen/hurts/mahomes/burrow’s of the league.  The bills just haven’t been making that one big defensive play against the bengals or chiefs in the playoffs.  

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan