Benford - Was he being showcased? (Opinion, not a rumor)

[Simon Says]

4 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

I think if a trade is made there it is Elam in a player-for-player trade. He would have better value. I could see Beane targeting a recent first round OT or ML that someone else feels has underperformed their draft status and swinging that trade.

I think Benford is the week 1 starter across from Tre.

Elam would be attractive to a team that plays man defense. I wonder who that might be?

[BigAl2526]

Benford is not going anywhere.  He's got nice size for a CB and better athleticism than Jackson.  You have to give Jackson a lot of credit for sticking with the Bills and contributing, but his ceiling, like Levi Wallace's ceiling, is still limited by the lack of athleticism.  Benford doesn't have Kaiir Elam's athleticism, but he has enough to be a quality starting CB in an NFL zone defense.  His college background and football intelligence has kept him ahead of Elam.  That's not going to change in the near term.  Right now, Benford is the second best outside CB on the team.  The Bills aren't so foolish as to get rid of that at the start of the season.  

 

I don't know what the future holds for Elam.  I think he is a good CB.  Whether or not he can become fully comfortable in a zone defense is impossible to predict.  I think he sticks around this season.  Next season, depending on what happens with the CBs, someone could be trade bait, but I don't see it happening in the near term.

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to trade him either.  Just seemed like Dane was the clear leader at CB2 all preseason and had played good throughout camp.  So Benford making a last minute leap frog just seemed a bit unusual given Dane did nothing to lose it.  And Beane has showcased players before in preseason before trading them (as do many GMs), so it made me wonder did he really pass Dane, or were they seeing if he might garner some trade value if they decide to move one.

 

But my personal stance has been keep all of them and that’s what I hope happens.  

I agree. We need depth at that position. Tre is getting older as well. The secondary is likely the strength of the defense especially if Poyer and Hyde are fully back. I think Benford is a bright young talent. Keep him. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Benford is a late round gem. Both safeties are likely gone after this year. We really don't know how White will rebound this year. Keep all 4 CBs for 2023 and see how the season unfolds. Right now the depth is far more important than a draft pick next year. 

[Mat68]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Benford is a late round gem. Both safeties are likely gone after this year. We really don't know how White will rebound this year. Keep all 4 CBs for 2023 and see how the season unfolds. Right now the depth is far more important than a draft pick next year. 

Benford is a better scheme fit but less an athlete than Elam.  I think you keep both.  Elam gives Mcdermott scheme flexibility.  Match ups and even situations you want to play man Elam will be used.  Seems like Elam isnt the best practice player but game day he seemed to play well.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Benford is a better scheme fit but less an athlete than Elam.  I think you keep both.  Elam gives Mcdermott scheme flexibility.  Match ups and even situations you want to play man Elam will be used.  Seems like Elam isnt the best practice player but game day he seemed to play well.  

Agree. Still don't trust McD to play the right guys. 

In the end if White is solid any of these three guys will be fine at CB#2. 

Wonder who is the backup for Taron Johnson?? Do they go with Jackson or Elam if Benford starts, or does nickel go to Rapp or a guy like Neal. 

[MasterStrategist]

28 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Agree. Still don't trust McD to play the right guys. 

In the end if White is solid any of these three guys will be fine at CB#2. 

Wonder who is the backup for Taron Johnson?? Do they go with Jackson or Elam if Benford starts, or does nickel go to Rapp or a guy like Neal. 

Neal for certain, he looked much improved in preseason too

[QLBillsFan]

Why would the Bills trade a cb ? A critical position where depth is required.

[machine gun kelly]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Let me clarify...I am not advocating to trade him or even saying he is for sure being traded.  Unlike many others, I am not concerned with the 3 way log jam at CB2 because I love having the depth, especially given the injury issues we have had at times at CB and the number of high level WR groupings we will face both in regular season and playoffs.  IMO, you can never have too many good CB's.  

 

BUT...we have a roster that isn't easy to make and we may need to make some tough decisions in places on players at various positions.  Plus Beane loves and needs more draft capital given our tight cap for the foreseeable future.  So, I don't think anyone would be surprised if Beane traded a player or two either for both roster space and gaining more draft capital.  

 

So why do I think Benford might be one of those players...2 main reasons:  

1. Beane already knows he has trade value and teams are interested given he was getting calls last year for Benford and he has only increased his value since then.  
2. His surprising start - In a 3 man battle at CB2, Dane was the clear leader in the race, and in the game where most starters played, Benford gets the start.

 

So this begs the question why did Benford start?

1.  Was it because he passed Dane?  Doubt it, Dane has not only been leading in the battle, but done nothing to lose his spot either as he has played well all camp and preseason and there is nothing Benford really does that Dane can't do.  
2. Was it to just give him his chance to "start" in the 3 CB race?  Doubt it because they did not do that with Elam who didn't start any preseason game despite being in the race to "start".  So there isn't a pattern of consistency there if they were all going to equally get that chance.
3. OR...Was it to showcase Benford, potentially increase his value as showing him as a possible starter and see what kind of trade interest it might create?  

 

Well, for me personally, I think it may be to showcase him to see what kind of trade interest and potential compensation it might create if he showed well, which he did.  This also tracks with what Beane has done in the past as well and its a common tactic when teams are considering a trade during preseason as well.  So while others are focusing on what Benfords start meant for Elam, I think it may be less about Elam and more about Benford and seeing what kind of trade value a good showing might drum up.  

 

I don't think Beane would "dump" any of the CB's for cheap if teams call, so I don't think he is say aggressively shopping him or trying to dump him.  But I think Benford starting may have been to try and increase his value for any calls he may get or already have gotten on one of our CB's.  To me I think it shows that maybe Benford of the 3 is the one he would be more willing to trade for the right offer.  And teams are always lookin for CB's, so I would suspect Beane will get some calls this year on one of them, if he hasn't already.

 

So while I like Benford and personally prefer to keep all 4 CB's (Tre, Dane, Elam, Benford) for depth, this feels like he was just showcased to maybe gauge trade interest and value.  And if Beane gets an offer he feels is good value for him, I think it might result in Benford being on the move.  

Alpha, you know I like you bud, but we have to have 4 good options at outside corner.  We also need a backup slot which Rapp can somewhat fill as welll as backup Hyde and Poyer.

 

we’re going to keep more, but I’d never move in from Benford, Elam, or Dane.  There’s a good chance Benford starts week 1.

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Agree. Still don't trust McD to play the right guys. 

In the end if White is solid any of these three guys will be fine at CB#2. 

Wonder who is the backup for Taron Johnson?? Do they go with Jackson or Elam if Benford starts, or does nickel go to Rapp or a guy like Neal. 

 

Neal is the backup nickel. Could I see a situation where they use Dane there some if Benford has sealed the CB2 job? Sure. But I think Neal would get first run.

[eball]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Still don't trust McD to play the right guys. 

 

I'll never understand comments like this.  The man has had more success running NFL defenses than you could ever dream of...but YOU don't "trust" him to play the right players.

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

I'll never understand comments like this.  The man has had more success running NFL defenses than you could ever dream of...but YOU don't "trust" him to play the right players.

 

 

So I think it is fair to acknowledge that coaches don't have to be right on every decision they make. Nor do GMs. The game isn't that much of a science. Really experienced and talented people can and do screw up in almost all walks of life. 

 

But I can't help but agree that when a poster takes it from the specific to the abstract (i.e. not "he is screwing up not playing player X" to "I don't trust him to play the right guys") then you have to look at McDermott's overall record in this league as a DC and a HC and say the evidence would suggest he overwhelmingly does play the right guys.

[eball]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So I think it is fair to acknowledge that coaches don't have to be right on every decision they make. Nor do GMs. The game isn't that much of a science. Really experienced and talented people can and do screw up in almost all walks of life. 

 

But I can't help but agree that when a poster takes it from the specific to the abstract (i.e. not "he is screwing up not playing player X" to "I don't trust him to play the right guys") then you have to look at McDermott's overall record in this league as a DC and a HC and say the evidence would suggest he overwhelmingly does play the right guys.

 

That's ok...Ethan will just label me a "homer" (as if that's an insult) and say I don't think McD should ever be criticized.  Of course that's not the case, but I've grown used to it.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by eball

[mrags]

Maybe it’s more along the line that they want to be sure they have a legitimate starter opposite Tre and if they are comfortable with Benford and Elam as starter and backup in any capacity. They maybe trade Jackson. 

4 minutes ago, eball said:

 

That's ok...Ethan will just label me a "homer" (as if that's an insult) and say I don't think McD should ever be criticized.  Of course that's not the case, but I've grown used to it.

 

 

Pfffft. Homer 

[MasterStrategist]

50 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Neal is the backup nickel. Could I see a situation where they use Dane there some if Benford has sealed the CB2 job? Sure. But I think Neal would get first run.

I don't think Dane has ever played nickel.

 

I still think we find a way to keep Cam, solving our 3rd nickel (break glass option).  Potentially Ingram if we can keep on p/s

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

I don't think Dane has ever played nickel.

 

I still think we find a way to keep Cam, solving our 3rd nickel (break glass option).  Potentially Ingram if we can keep on p/s

 

He hasn't as far as I am aware but I remember he worked there for teams at the Senior Bowl practices the year he came out and there were a lot who saw him as a nickel. I think I recall the Bills worked him there in camp some as a rookie too. If my memory is serving me well that was the year Josh Norman as here with Levi and Tre as the top 3 outside guys and they worked Dane both inside and out. So while he has never done it in a game that I am aware of it is something people have always felt him capable of. 

 

I think you are right it would be Neal in first and then and Ingram / Lewis PS call up. But I think if Taron were to miss serious time they might ask themselves "why are we not putting our best 3 guys out there?" And if Benford has locked down the outside job it's an option. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Alpha, you know I like you bud, but we have to have 4 good options at outside corner.  We also need a backup slot which Rapp can somewhat fill as welll as backup Hyde and Poyer.

 

we’re going to keep more, but I’d never move in from Benford, Elam, or Dane.  There’s a good chance Benford starts week 1.

I agree, again was not proposing this, was wondering if this was why Benford started given Dane seemed to be in the lead to start all camp and preseason.  
 

I want to keep them all too

 

4 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

You're right, dude.  My bad.  I think I was mostly responding to the thread's narrative than your original post/question.

Yeah all good  

Edited August 28, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[Saxum]

7 hours ago, Augie said:

….and I seriously doubt they trade Elam, either. He needs time to learn the game and how to use his physical skills in more of a zone defense. 

 

And learn that NFL wants to see scores so he needs to keep his hands off WRs unlike in college.

[AuntieEm]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Saw a Ravens guy on Twitter pushing for an Elam to the Ravens trade for a LB.

 

The Elam family has ties to the Ravens. Seems to think they would want Elam.

 

And it certainly is possible and I am not saying this is any fact,  but if Elam would rather be on another team that maybe plays man much more he could be a bit slow to trying to excell in a zone system he may not care for.  Not totally dogging it but just not letting the new techniques become muscle memory.    He's gonna be signed by another team if he ever is deemed a bust for zone schemes.  Might have to earn less until he breaks out in the other scheme if he even does.  However these guys have egos that they often bet on themselves. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by AuntieEm

[PrimeTime101]

7 hours ago, Simon said:

It is clearly not too early on the Left Coast to light one up.

 

'ere.....