Beane concerned with Kyle Allen?

[Heavy Kevi]

9 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

You could start by using that phrase correctly.

 

If Beane said that quote off the record unquote then the guy wouldn't have repeated it

 

I mean, sure... In theory.

 

I know lots of media members (mostly newspaper and radio) and guess what?

 

They are normal people. And normal people don't always follow the rules (whether unwitting or not). 

 

I have literally said "off the record" to reporters before and the "off record" comments were PRINTED on the front page.

 

So yeah, I don't have a hard time believing this is feasible. Whether or not it's true is another conversation entirely.

 

As a society we like to pretend certain professions (doctors, lawyers, reporters, etc) are above the fray, and have integrity; but time and time again we are proven foolhardy in that inclination. They are normal too, and a blanket "if this, then this; because rules" argument doesn't really move the needle on if this legitimately happened.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You’ve moved the goalposts of our conversation while putting words in my mouth.  I’m not talking about paying a backup QB anymore than Kyle Allen.  

 

You asked who cares about the backup QB and are operating under the assumption that if Allen gets hurt, the season is over.  It’s a very flawed way of thinking.  I would hope that our GM doesn’t share the same shortsighted view.  
 

I didn’t say we had to pay a good backup.  I think there are other minimum salary QBs that can help us win games better than Kyle Allen can.  I think that just about any mobile QB would give us a better chance to win than Kyle Allen.  Maybe I’m being harsh, but I think he’s terrible
 

You just want anyone different. Remember we didn’t particularly like Keenum last year in camp and preseason either. 

They signed Kyle Allen to backup. What exactly has changed? His previous starting game film hasn’t changed.

 

 

[Antonio]

11 hours ago, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

I live outside the U.S., so I have to watch the feed from DAZN (which is awful, but that's another story)

 

This week we got the Chicago feed. The announcers were Jim Miller and some other guy. They actually did a good job focusing on both clubs, not only paying attention to the Bears.

 

But here's the interesting part. During the commercials, the feed stayed with the stadium broadcast. In one break, Miller and his partner's mics were left on and we got to hear their off air conversation. This is almost a direct quote (not sure if it was Miller or his partner who was speaking)

 

"Beane told me Allen has struggled from the very beginning. He just doesn't have what it takes / it's never gonna happen for him. He said he was very concerned."

 

Anyone else want to corroborate what I heard?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also saw it thru DAZAN, but just watched the first half. Do you remember when did they said this? Was that in the 3rd or 4th quarter? I would like to go back and check it out. 

 

It was funny to me that during brakes you cuold hear a lot of what was going on... In the stadium they were playing a Mexican Band and players were dancing to it. Also heard them talking about off the game stuff, but didn´t catch the Allen thing. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I just don't understand how the Bills could be surprised about Kyle Allen struggling. 

 

He's as cheap of a primary backup QB you can possibly get in 2023 NFL football. 

 

It's a calculated risk the Bills have rolled with since drafting Josh Allen. They've skimped on backup-QB in favor of utilizing that money elsewhere. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

Wow, I did not hear that, but I missed a few portions of the game. Did anyone else hear that?

I did not, but now I want to go back

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You just want anyone different. Remember we didn’t particularly like Keenum last year in camp and preseason either. 

They signed Kyle Allen to backup. What exactly has changed? His previous starting game film hasn’t changed.

 

 

I wouldn’t just want someone different if I thought the guy we had could win some games.  I don’t think he’s capable unless he went up against the worst or the worst pass rushing teams.  We saw how bad he was vs the terrible Colt pass rush.  
 

his previous game film doesn’t mean anything to me.  He’s thrown very few passes since 2019 and looks to have regressed while getting few reps.  Many players regress sitting on the bench getting backup reps. Watching him play this year, I don’t think he’s the same player as his starting game film.  

i didn’t necessarily like Case Keenum either.  I’d prefer a backup QB with some wheels that can escape the inevitable pass rush and make a play with his legs.  I liked him more than Allen.

My point in all this.  I care about the backup QB.  This notion that if a backup QB has to play, the season is over is 🗑️.   

Edited August 28, 2023 by NewEra

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You just want anyone different. Remember we didn’t particularly like Keenum last year in camp and preseason either. 

They signed Kyle Allen to backup. What exactly has changed? His previous starting game film hasn’t changed.

 

 

 

No I just want someone better. And there are lots of them. Kyle Allen sucks.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I wouldn’t just want someone different if I thought the guy we had could win some games.  I don’t think he’s capable unless he went up against the worst or the worst pass rushing teams.  We saw how bad he was vs the terrible Colt pass rush.  
 

his previous game film doesn’t mean anything to me.  He’s thrown very few passes since 2019 and looks to have regressed while getting few reps.  Many players regress sitting on the bench getting backup reps. Watching him play this year, I don’t think he’s the same player as his starting game film.  
 

I’m just saying-  there’s a chance that backup QB matters.  The notion that it means nothing is 💩 imo.  

Is this how you always felt or just based on preseason?

 

The Bills signed him months ago to backup. The regular season is a different animal for many reasons. The Bills will run an offense to fit Kyle. Right now there’s no game planing. I don’t think anyone we get will be much better unless they are experienced starters.

 

I would take Keenum over Kyle Allen if possible. I’m not stressing over it though.

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Is this how you always felt or just based on preseason?

 

The Bills signed him months ago to backup. The regular season is a different animal for many reasons. The Bills will run an offense to fit Kyle. Right now there’s no game planing. I don’t think anyone we get will be much better unless they are experienced starters.

 

I would take Keenum over Kyle Allen if possible. I’m not stressing over it though.

 

 

I can't remember watching him play for Carolina when he made a few starts. Based on the numbers I was cautiously optimistic. 

 

But what has me concerned about his pre-season is nothing to do with game planning or play calling it is his general skittishness and lack of pocket awareness. He is atrocious. 

 

I think you could have Bill Walsh gameplanning and playcalling and the pocket awareness would still be a problem.

[The Frankish Reich]

19 minutes ago, Heavy Kevi said:

 

I have literally said "off the record" to reporters before and the "off record" comments were PRINTED on the front page.

That's really bad.

I've been in the same situation, and I've always had reporters respect an "off the record" comment. 

If I understand this one correctly, Beane allegedly said something off the record to a broadcaster, who then inadvertently repeated it to another broadcaster without realizing there was an open mic. That's just a mistake. My understanding is that journalists can share off the record comments with other journalists or editors, but that they won't publicize them (except by mistake)

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I can't remember watching him play for Carolina when he made a few starts. Based on the numbers I was cautiously optimistic. 

 

But what has me concerned about his pre-season is nothing to do with game planning or play calling it is his general skittishness and lack of pocket awareness. He is atrocious. 

 

I think you could have Bill Walsh gameplanning and playcalling and the pocket awareness would still be a problem.

Kyle Allen backing up Josh Allen has been talked about for years on this board.

 

If Kyle Allen starts the Bills become a ball control run based offense. He’s not going to be throwing all over.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Kyle Allen backing up Josh Allen has been talked about for years on this board.

 

If Kyle Allen starts the Bills become a ball control run based offense. He’s not going to be throwing all over.

 

We better run for 300 yards then. I'm with whoever said above if the Bears go with the kid who went 2nd against us I'd bring PJ Walker in. At least his mobility gives us a shot at moving the chains.

[Big Turk]

Let's be real...unless you have the cap space for a high end backup, you are going to struggle to win games if QB1 goes down.  Most teams that have that type of cap space for a high end back up have their starter on a rookie deal or the starter isn't very good so if he struggles they can turn to the high priced backup to hopefully come in and give them a boost for a few games.

 

[The Frankish Reich]

Has anyone looked at the quality of backup QBs in the NFL?

Our division:

- Miami, a team with a particularly fragile starter, has Mike White and Skylar Thompson as #2 and #3

- The Jets, a team with a 39 year old starter, have Zach Wilson and Tim Boyle

- The Pats are probably best off with Bailey Zappe and Trace McSorley, but the gap between starter and backup isn't so big simply because Mac Jones isn't so good

 

The only "good" backups are typically the guys like Garoppolo last year, who got demoted only because Shanahan really wanted to go to Trey Lance. That's why they got better when Jimmy took over.

[Heavy Kevi]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

That's really bad.

I've been in the same situation, and I've always had reporters respect an "off the record" comment. 

If I understand this one correctly, Beane allegedly said something off the record to a broadcaster, who then inadvertently repeated it to another broadcaster without realizing there was an open mic. That's just a mistake. My understanding is that journalists can share off the record comments with other journalists or editors, but that they won't publicize them (except by mistake)

 

Indeed. I agree with everything you said there.

 

My point was to show an extreme case, making this situation seem not-so crazy.

 

Most of the times I say off the record, it's just that. But mistakes happen. I even like the guy and now I'll sometimes say "Bill (that's not his real name), tell me you won't print this"

 

In my experience, off record comments generally provide context to the writer, giving them information that even though they can't share, helps frame the situation so they understand the nuance. Beane's (potential) comments certainly "fit the bill" and I would not be surprised if this a true story (and now more than 1 poster has confirmed hearing it)

[JohnNord]

11 hours ago, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

I live outside the U.S., so I have to watch the feed from DAZN (which is awful, but that's another story)

 

This week we got the Chicago feed. The announcers were Jim Miller and some other guy. They actually did a good job focusing on both clubs, not only paying attention to the Bears.

 

But here's the interesting part. During the commercials, the feed stayed with the stadium broadcast. In one break, Miller and his partner's mics were left on and we got to hear their off air conversation. This is almost a direct quote (not sure if it was Miller or his partner who was speaking)

 

"Beane told me Allen has struggled from the very beginning. He just doesn't have what it takes / it's never gonna happen for him. He said he was very concerned."

 

Anyone else want to corroborate what I heard?

 

 

 

 

 

 

We do know that he called on Trey Lance, so it’s definitely possible that the Bills are looking to see if they can find an upgrade.  As far as being “very concerned,” I’m not so sure 

[Shaw66]

34 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Agreed.

A while back I took a look at how teams do when they have to bring in the classic "emergency QB." The guy signed off the street who has a week to learn the offense. We've seen a few of those here: Derek Anderson (horrid, but on a horrid offense), Thad Lewis (better than expected) come to mind. Overall, even these emergency/almost no preparation time guys actually win about a third of the time. My conclusions were:

- there's a lot of randomness in the NFL. Any given Sunday and all that. 

- we tend to overrate the value of a backup QB. There's a huge chasm between Josh Allen and Kyle Allen. Not much of a gap between Kyle Allen and another journeyman, Jordan Allen, who came into Niners camp this year as QB #4 - basically freely available talent. (I guess he'll now be their #3 with Lance traded).

 

A few teams every year are lucky enough (or stupid enough to commit serious money to a backup QB? It's a good question) to have an unusually good backup. Mostly you are looking at the revolving door of Kyle Allens and Jordan Allens. And if you look closely at results over the course of a game or three, you won't find any significant difference between the guys you pay a little more (Kyle) vs. a little less (Jordan)

Yep. My point, but you said it with a lot fewer words!

Agree with all of this.  But in the case of Kyle, he could be yout guy in Buffalo fot 8 years.  That stability is valuable.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

We better run for 300 yards then. I'm with whoever said above if the Bears go with the kid who went 2nd against us I'd bring PJ Walker in. At least his mobility gives us a shot at moving the chains.

I’m sorry but PJ Walker is terrible. That is not an upgrade. He can’t throw.

 

That is exactly what I’m talking about. You want PJ Walker?

Edited August 28, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[BarleyNY]

11 hours ago, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

I live outside the U.S., so I have to watch the feed from DAZN (which is awful, but that's another story)

 

This week we got the Chicago feed. The announcers were Jim Miller and some other guy. They actually did a good job focusing on both clubs, not only paying attention to the Bears.

 

But here's the interesting part. During the commercials, the feed stayed with the stadium broadcast. In one break, Miller and his partner's mics were left on and we got to hear their off air conversation. This is almost a direct quote (not sure if it was Miller or his partner who was speaking)

 

"Beane told me Allen has struggled from the very beginning. He just doesn't have what it takes / it's never gonna happen for him. He said he was very concerned."

 

Anyone else want to corroborate what I heard?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing that. I can say this for sure, Beane should be concerned about Kyle Allen as the backup QB. Barkley is no better. 

[The Frankish Reich]

Also remember the randomness in QB performance/stats.

I just said the Pats are in the best backup QB shape with Bailey Zappe. That's because he made a couple starts last year and he was surprisingly good: 

100.0 and 118.4 QB ratings.

 

Kyle Allen's first 2 starts in the NFL:

111.3 and 144.4 QB ratings. On the basis of that, he's always had a job for the last 5 years.

 

My hunch is that Zappe's next dozen starts will be more like Kyle Allen's last dozen starts.

 

Dumb luck early on? Defenses don't have film on their weaknesses? Both?

Moral: If you want to be a career backup and always have a job, just have a couple good starts at the beginning of your career. You can then continuously suck for the next half dozen years and still be employed.