The 2023 - ??? Edmunds Report

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

I wish Edmunds well.  I hope he starts making a bigger impact soon.   Need him and the Bears to beat as many AFC teams as possible starting this Sunday. 

 

Mahomes and Kelce licking their chops knowing they get to carve up their favorite play thing one last time.

 

I have no clue what the Bears thought they were paying for. MLB is a devalued position so if you're giving one $18 million AAV you better get a true difference maker. Edmunds even on his best days was just a guy that created opportunities for others to be difference makers. And on his worst days smart OCs and QBs would make a fool out of him.

 

I think it is becoming clear that he was a worse player than even some of his detractors thought, and no longer having the support of a sound defensive system and strong surrounding talent is shining a spotlight on his flaws.

 

This so-called "modern" MLB can't match up against modern offenses that thrive on misdirection. In a sport where turnover differential matters more to win percentage than pretty much any other statistic, here is a player that doesn't force or collect turnovers.

 

So again, what did the Bears think they were paying for?

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by HappyDays

[Utah John]

Edmunds and Frazier went together.  Frazier built a D that counted on tall and long and fast Edmunds eating up space in the middle, and statistically it worked.  It just didn't work in the playoffs.  

 

I've always suspected the reason Frazier left was that he knew the Bills wouldn't be able to keep Edmunds, which meant all his plans would go out the window, and he didn't want to start over.  

 

Edmunds is a rather unique player.  He's good at things other players can't do, but he's pretty bad at things a lot of other players do well.  On a strong Bills D, his strengths were more important than his weaknesses.  On a lousy Bears D, with no one to compensate for his shortcomings, the honeymoon will be over soon, and the divorce lawyers will be lining up in the hallway.

[FireChans]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Mahomes and Kelce licking their chops knowing they get to carve up their favorite play thing one last time.

 

I have no clue what the Bears thought they were paying for. MLB is a devalued position so if you're giving one $18 million AAV you better get a true difference maker. Edmunds even on his best days was just a guy that created opportunities for others to be difference makers. And on his worst days smart OCs and QBs would make a fool out of him.

 

I think it is becoming clear that he was a worse player than even some of his detractors thought, and no longer having the support of a sound defensive system and strong surrounding talent is shining a spotlight on his flaws.

 

This so-called "modern" MLB can't match up against modern offenses that thrive on misdirection. In a sport where turnover differential matters more to win percentage than pretty much any other statistic, here is a player that doesn't force or collect turnovers.

 

So again, what did the Bears think they were paying for?

 

Bears thought, like many Bills fans, he made multiple ProBowls so he must be good lol. Tyrod Taylor effect 

[Behindenemylines]

5 hours ago, Utah John said:

Edmunds and Frazier went together.  Frazier built a D that counted on tall and long and fast Edmunds eating up space in the middle, and statistically it worked.  It just didn't work in the playoffs.  

 

I've always suspected the reason Frazier left was that he knew the Bills wouldn't be able to keep Edmunds, which meant all his plans would go out the window, and he didn't want to start over.  

 

Edmunds is a rather unique player.  He's good at things other players can't do, but he's pretty bad at things a lot of other players do well.  On a strong Bills D, his strengths were more important than his weaknesses.  On a lousy Bears D, with no one to compensate for his shortcomings, the honeymoon will be over soon, and the divorce lawyers will be lining up in the hallway.

Frazier didn’t leave, he was told to leave. Nicely and given a soft landing, but they took his keys to building on his way out. 
 

And I’ve heard numerous time from the talking heads about his “year off” and coming back. Heck NO!  

[Billl]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

His predecessor at MLB in Buffalo lead the NFL in tackles in 2017..........maybe this is the year he finally reaches that Preston Brown level as a tackle accumulator?

 

 

 

 

 

And he had 7 TFLs on the season.  Edmunds had 2 in week 1 alone.  Edmunds played well against GB.  Don’t know what else to tell you.  Again, sorry the fact that he doesn’t suck causes such grief around this fan base.  Not sure what he ever did to malign so many Bills fans but whatever it was, I’m sure Terrell Bernard will do better.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 hours ago, FireChans said:

53 was covering Jones. Edmunds has the middle zone. He goes left instead of right, bang TD Packers.  Did you notice there was already a defender on the guy Tremaine went to go help? Lmao.
 

This is the story of Edmunds career. Large completion in his zone? Oh, well it wasn’t technically his man so it’s all good. Misses the ball in the air, resulting in a completion? Oh, it was a tough play for any ILB to make. 
 

It must be nice to be playing the middle in and no matter what happens, it wasn’t your fault. Perks of being a zone coverage scarecrow that can’t cover.

I watched the whole game. What’s it called when you presume something then are biased in confirming that opinion. Hmm, it will come to me. Thanks for playing!

 

Completions are gonna happen... usually at pretty high frequency.  A good ILB today will tackle and limit the YAC, while also having the instincts and freedom to read the QB and make a play from time to time.  With his length and athleticism he could close some of those windows which some QBs definitely struggle with. 

 

I felt he lacked the playmaking component.  He hasn't forced a fumble since 2018.  He had 2 INTs and 3 sacks over the last 3 seasons.  So to me it's really hard to justify paying him a ton of money when he just isn't instinctual enough to read the QB, or physical enough to cause fumbles. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[corta765]

16 hours ago, FireChans said:

If the player isn't worth a second contract, they aren't worth trading up in the first round for.

 

Hold on he was worth a 2nd contact, the issue was his cost was so high we couldn't afford him/wouldn't pay given the rest of the roster. That is far more market driven then anything else.

[Beck Water]

15 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

I want to discuss trading LaMonica.

 

YESSSSSSSSSS!

 

 

We should never have traded Lamonica!

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, Utah John said:

Edmunds and Frazier went together.  Frazier built a D that counted on tall and long and fast Edmunds eating up space in the middle, and statistically it worked.  It just didn't work in the playoffs.  

 

I've always suspected the reason Frazier left was that he knew the Bills wouldn't be able to keep Edmunds, which meant all his plans would go out the window, and he didn't want to start over.  

 

Edmunds is a rather unique player.  He's good at things other players can't do, but he's pretty bad at things a lot of other players do well.  On a strong Bills D, his strengths were more important than his weaknesses.  On a lousy Bears D, with no one to compensate for his shortcomings, the honeymoon will be over soon, and the divorce lawyers will be lining up in the hallway.

 

I have expressed the same thought.  It didn't go over well, but I think there may be truth to it.  Not only revamp the D, but possibly 2 or 3 times if the first try wasn't effective, and quite likely have the D ranked much lower than 1 or 2.

 

Cue the "Nooooo!  Frazier didn't leave!  He was kicked out the door - using Sheepskin slippers lined with fleece at the toe to do the kicking, and a patented soft-close door closer behind him, but still" responses.

 

16 hours ago, FireChans said:

If the player isn't worth a second contract, they aren't worth trading up in the first round for.

 

Dude.  Edwards was obviously worth a second contract.  He got one - just not from the team that drafted him.

 

What you're contending is "if a player isn't worth paying what he can get on the open market as a FA, they aren't worth trading up in the first round for"

 

You need to think about that logic a minute. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Beck Water

[HappyDays]

50 minutes ago, Billl said:

Edmunds played well against GB.

 

He got a 51.2 grade from PFF in that game. His coverage grade was 42.7.

[FireChans]

47 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I have expressed the same thought.  It didn't go over well, but I think there may be truth to it.  Not only revamp the D, but possibly 2 or 3 times if the first try wasn't effective, and quite likely have the D ranked much lower than 1 or 2.

 

Cue the "Nooooo!  Frazier didn't leave!  He was kicked out the door - using Sheepskin slippers lined with fleece at the toe to do the kicking, and a patented soft-close door closer behind him, but still" responses.

 

 

Dude.  Edwards was obviously worth a second contract.  He got one - just not from the team that drafted him.

 

What you're contending is "if a player isn't worth paying what he can get on the open market as a FA, they aren't worth trading up in the first round for"

 

You need to think about that logic a minute. 

Yeah that makes total sense lol. If you drafted the best QB in the NFL, you would pay him market value no matter what. Good pick. If you drafted the best pass rusher in the NFL, you would pay him market value no matter what. Good pick. If you draft a “solid” ILB, they will get overpaid by some garbage franchise and aren’t enough of a difference maker to be worth paying. Bad pick.

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

 

Hold on he was worth a 2nd contact, the issue was his cost was so high we couldn't afford him/wouldn't pay given the rest of the roster. That is far more market driven then anything else.

See above.

Edited September 20, 2023 by FireChans

[Dukestreetking]

13 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'd rather see a Motor report 😎. 

 

...and speaking of Motor (sort of), saw that Z Moss had a nice little stat line: 18/88/4.9/1TD

 

Not to derail the thread, but can anyone advise how he looked? Didn't see the game.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

And he had 7 TFLs on the season.  Edmunds had 2 in week 1 alone.  Edmunds played well against GB.  Don’t know what else to tell you.  Again, sorry the fact that he doesn’t suck causes such grief around this fan base.  Not sure what he ever did to malign so many Bills fans but whatever it was, I’m sure Terrell Bernard will do better.

Because nothing drives a fan base crazier than unreached potential.

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

 

...and speaking of Motor (sort of), saw that Z Moss had a nice little stat line: 18/88/4.9/1TD

 

Not to derail the thread, but can anyone advise how he looked? Didn't see the game.

 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/zack-moss-goes-untouched-on-11-yard-td

At least one more in here:

https://www.nfl.com/games/colts-at-texans-2023-reg-2?active-tab=highlights

 

Moss still looks slow to me, but he made some nice cuts, made guys miss in traffic.  Looks like a man who is appreciating his chance to play and making the most of it.  He looks like he may have slimmed down and muscled up a bit, too, so maybe he is a bit faster/more nimble.

 

I think Richardson is going to be A Problem.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Beck Water

[Coach Tuesday]

Lol this is becoming the ex gf thread.

[FLFan]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Lol this is becoming the ex gf thread.

Yes, and just as childish.  I think it might be time to move on.  He does not play for us anymore.  

[DCofNC]

Why can’t we all see the truth, Edmunds is this generation’s Paul Pozluzny.  Stats are there, but impact is severely lacking.  Once Poz left, people could see it, it won’t be long when the Bears are looking to get rid of him because of the contract vs impact and people will wonder, “what happened to him?”  In reality, he’s never been an impact guy and he has absolutely ZERO instincts.  If he can see the ball and attack, awesome, he can be an athlete.  Ask for anticipation, forget it.

[Beck Water]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yeah that makes total sense lol. If you drafted the best QB in the NFL, you would pay him market value no matter what. Good pick. If you drafted the best pass rusher in the NFL, you would pay him market value no matter what. Good pick. If you draft a “solid” ILB, they will get overpaid by some garbage franchise and aren’t enough of a difference maker to be worth paying. Bad pick.

See above.

 

Again, you need to think about that logic a bit.  I'm not a member of the "MLB don't matter any more" club, butwe all know that QB is the most important player on the team, pass rusher next.  Supply and demand says there aren't enough of either, so teams reach and teams pay guys who are "OK".

 

MLB is not a position like "best QB" or "best pass rusher" where teams are going to pay "market value no matter what", but getting a 5th year option picked up and then huge $$ on the free market for a 2nd contract means a player, any player, was a successful draft pick at a position of significance.

It's not logical to suggest that getting a huge FA 2nd contract means the player wasn't worth that 1st round pick.

[Brand J]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Because nothing drives a fan base crazier than unreached potential.

It’s not the unrealized potential that pits Bills fans against Edmunds, it’s the divisive discussion about what he brings to the defense.
 

If everyone here unanimously (or even mostly) believed Edmunds was a solid yet unspectacular linebacker, there wouldn’t be threads started about him, nor would there be arguments about what a poster’s own eyes are telling them. Edmunds was described in many ways like Star Lotuleile, another divisive player, and the common thread/argument between the two was that both made plays all game long, it just didn’t register on the stat sheet. When you have some telling others what they’re seeing is wrong, then you get a divisive player. In that situation it feels like people are salty toward the player but in actuality they’re salty toward the heated arguments and want nothing more than to be proven right. 

[Captain Hindsight]

20 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

 

...and speaking of Motor (sort of), saw that Z Moss had a nice little stat line: 18/88/4.9/1TD

 

Not to derail the thread, but can anyone advise how he looked? Didn't see the game.

Moss looked good. I was surprised it was him, but he looks like a solid NFL back right now