Elam now CB4 and playing kickoff coverage in the preseason

[KOKBILLS]

5 hours ago, Process said:

What's your play here?

 

Hang onto him and hope he develops?

 

Trade him while he still has some value? If he's not playing, his value will only go down the further we get from when he was drafted. 

 

I would say trade him, but we don't have a lot of depth. Who is CB4 then, Austin? If a bad team offered a 3rd, I'd probably take it. 

 

I didn't follow him in college, but him not being a fit for our defense is not a surprise, right? We knew that already going into the draft? That's the frustrating part. 

 

Beane will see what is out there for sure. Lots of CB needy teams... I'm not sure playing him as CB4 in the final preseason game is the best way to maximize his value on the open market. I'm also not sure the Bills really want to deal him with all the secondary injuries they suffered last year. Not to mention the fact that Dane Jackson will be a UFA next off season. But all things considered the possibilities of trading Elam are definitely not zero. 

[Xwnyer]

You knew the guy was a man on man CB you draft him and then try to make him play zone.   Bad move 

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

????

 

That's not even true from his draft class. Most players drafted #20-#32 started almost their entire rookie years barring injury. 8 of that 14. That's not including the one who got hurt.

Maybe so. All the talk during the draft was maybe 18 or so real 1st round grades. Elam has shown he has starting ability, but the Bills are trying to make him into more than just an average starter.

[Meatloaf63]

6 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I still don’t understand this. I thought he was quite good at times last year. Had 2 huge ints

McDermott doesn’t always make the best decisions with personnel.

[SoMAn]

2 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

That is possible.  There also is a chance that he isn’t catching on to the zone heavy scheme like was hoped.  He might be better suited for a defense with more press man coverage.  No idea.

I know there’s probably good bit involved, but learning zone is not rocket science.
Assuming he’s had access to DB coaches, the playbook, and teammates in the DB room with similar assignments, how, after 15+months of exposure to the scheme, is he still struggling? It’s his job!
If he’s still trying to figure it out, he should be up at the crack of dawn every day like anyone else with a job, studying and learning til his head hurts.
In his pre-draft interview he was seen in the meeting with Bean and McD making a point of how prepared he is and studies the playbook diligently. 

I’m starting to believe that was him parroting a script from his agent, or he actually does work that hard, but just doesn’t catch on quickly. 
If learning how to play zone is that complicated, maybe spending a first round pick on Elam was a big mistake. 
If the scheme is one the Bills believed can be absorbed by an average player, maybe Elam has the athleticism, but just isn’t smart enough for the mental aspect.

[JaCrispy]

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

I was going to wait until the game was over to make this exact post. 
 

I really think the Bills should take trade offers for him.  It’s not that he isn’t good. He just doesn’t fit our system.  
 

A team like the Ravens would love to have him and I’m sure there are other DB needy teams. 
 

Ideally, there’s a team out there with good OT or MLB depth that needs a DB, but this isn’t Madden. 
 

For me, if you can get a 2nd rounder, go for it 

Agreed…I think we could get a 3rd for him…👍

[balln]

2 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

Coaches can make mistakes, but they've got a team of coaches all evaluating these guys. If anything, the mistake was made at the draft level.

 

Last year Frazier was calling the defense, and he didn't like what he saw. This year it's McDermott directing things, and he's only slipped further. All the assistants & position coaches also have input, yet somehow a 6th & 7th round pick managed to earn their spots while the guy McDermott & Co. handpicked to take the reigns has fallen.

 

Again, they definitely did not want this. But better to correct a mistake rather than complicate one by making ANOTHER mistake & forcing an inferior player into the starting lineup due to draft status. Elam had chances in games. He had chances due to injuries. Even Benford was hurt for a while giving him a new opportunity to prove himself.

 

Yet here we are, with another camp & preseason under our belts & Elam is out there on ST. This isn't just a one time mistake or coaches having it out for him. The opportunities have been there. 

Yea and elam made an INT and a game ending PB vs Mia in playoffs

 

and elam made a red zone int off mahommes to win in kc that at the time set us up for cruise control for #1 seed 

 

just bizarre he’s where he’s at now. I’m chalking it up to sophomore slump- didn’t come into camp w his hair on fire 

[balln]

2 hours ago, Special K said:

 

Meanwhile, Devin Lloyd, the player the Bills should have drafted in the first found instead of Elam, is starting at MLB for the Jags and is primed to have a breakout season....oops.

That’s mcbeanes weakness. They hold onto “ their guys “ way too long. No way they would take a first rd LB when edmunds still here - a guy they traded up (I believe gave up 2 2nd Ed picks) to get and had a completely average nfl career 

 

Cody ford , AJE, Basham , Spencer brown , Zach moss ect ….. Nathan peterman 

[maddenboy]

4 hours ago, ALLinALLEN said:

He’s a great depth piece imo. People calling to trade him just expect ALL round 1 guys to be elite Start by year 2 game one.

i think the problem goes all the way back to here.   For players like Benford we are patient and then pleasantly surprised.

 

But to actually win the superbowl during your window, you cant draft 1st round projects (except QB, where there is an army dedicated to getting him ready asap).  Because 'upside' is a tiebreaker between 2 guys who can already help you Now.  Not to be used for a 1st rounder who doesnt start during the first snap of the first game.

 

Because the issue is not "is he a good player," or "is he gonna become one?"  And the issue is not whether we should trade him.  We shouldnt.

 

the issue is:  did McBeane make a mistake drafting Elam in the first round.  No matter what the cause or excuse.

 

yes.

 

[edited to add "during your window."   Since we should not be in team-building mode right now]

Edited August 27, 2023 by maddenboy

[5ths the charm]

5 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

They traded up to draft Elam.  Doesn’t sound like a “collective fingers crossed” move to me.  Especially with McCreary and Gordon still on the board.  I’d guess that they really liked him at the time.  

Tells you they have poor scouting for certain positions on the team.

47 minutes ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

Beane will see what is out there for sure. Lots of CB needy teams... I'm not sure playing him as CB4 in the final preseason game is the best way to maximize his value on the open market. I'm also not sure the Bills really want to deal him with all the secondary injuries they suffered last year. Not to mention the fact that Dane Jackson will be a UFA next off season. But all things considered the possibilities of trading Elam are definitely not zero. 

Trading him? They spent a first rounder, they can't let him go for anything other than a second, or keep him around to try and coach up.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

AJE was a 2nd rder coming out of a weird draft where players didn't get regular training camps.

 

Elam has elite measurables, played in the SEC, and was drafted knowing he was a bit of a project to fit our scheme. 

 

Depth alone he's valuable to this team this year (a SB expectation season) and that's ignoring the chance to develop a guy completely switching schemes. 

 

He's struggling to adapt, at our deepest position on the team. This would be inconceivably dumb!!! Don't hold your breath on a trade, Beane ain't that dumb either

Okay lmao see you in 3 years 

[BuffaloRebound]

It’s a coaching failure if a guy who was probably your best DB at the end of year as a rookie is CB4 coming out of preseason.  I guess we need to watch Dane get cooked by Rodgers and every other decent QB when the games actually mean something before McDermott is forced to turn back to Elam.  McDermott loves those lunch pail guys, but they ain’t getting you over the hump.  Gotta be able to coach up the talented guys.  

[DCofNC]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

That’s not really true, though.  This team has been right on the cusp for 3 seasons.  When you’re that close to winning your first championship, everything you do is for need.  Once you’ve got one, you get to start planning for the long term.  McBeane doesn’t have the luxury of that.  They are all in right now.  I think you’re going to see an aggressive rebuild next offseason.  If they’d have won it in 2021 or 2022, they’d have done it this offseason.

It is true.  If you have a team that’s supposedly that good, anywhere you add a better player, makes the team better.  Passing on Creed Humphrey because you “need” pass rush, makes the team weaker. Drafting a project DB because you need a CB2, when you also have holes all over the OL etc, makes the team weaker.   They took guys looking at the future, just the opposite of what you are trying to say, they had to develop all these players at positions of need, instead of letting the draft come to them. 
 

There isn’t going to be an “aggressive rebuild”, there’s no money for it.  The consistent whiffs on finding any difference makers is killing this team.  Yes, they are ok, but they can’t get over the hump because Beane has drafted exactly zero difference makers outside of Allen. 

[Don Otreply]

My god man…, 🥱

[Ya Digg?]

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

I was going to wait until the game was over to make this exact post. 
 

I really think the Bills should take trade offers for him.  It’s not that he isn’t good. He just doesn’t fit our system.  
 

A team like the Ravens would love to have him and I’m sure there are other DB needy teams. 
 

Ideally, there’s a team out there with good OT or MLB depth that needs a DB, but this isn’t Madden. 
 

For me, if you can get a 2nd rounder, go for it 

Obviously the problem with trading him is now you are relying on someone like Alex Austin or Cam Lewis (gonna throw up in my mouth just mentioning him 🤮) to fill that 4th cb role. Who knows how Tre will respond this year and both Jackson and Benford got injured last year. To me, the Bills face too many good receivers to be giving up on him so soon

[HiMark]

Just because he's not Kyle Williams, doesn't make him John McCargo.

His day may yet come, and you need depth at that position.

[HiMark]

6 hours ago, Dan Darragh said:

Let me refine it.  I'd like to find out which guys posted that Edmunds wasn't worth keeping who are now posting about how worried they are about the MLB situation.  My guess is there's a lot of overlap.

This time last year there were posters with the opinion to let him go b/c Spector looked so natural, instinctive, at MLB.  That definitely happened on this board.

Last year we went replacement-level at cornerback.  This year we are doing it at MLB. It will show, but we will survive through an abundance of surrounding talent.

[HiMark]

4 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Everything you said is true and a rational argument. 

Except you left the part out about the coaches making mistakes. What if McDermott really isn't that great at talent evaluation? I posted numerous examples of guys he played that were awful and others that were good and didn't play. 

What if he has some inherent bias that we don't know about? Beane straight up said Elam has an issue with practice. Well maybe the kid is better during games. 

Maybe Benford is a great #2 CB and it won't matter. Maybe Elam is just dumb and can't learn the defense. 

All we can do is sit back and watch. CB#2 is about the 5th most important issue this team is facing. They have solid depth and they should be fine whoever they put out there.

 

No need for that.  Besides, lots of smart, athletic players have washed out.

4 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Wrong. You should always draft for need. Torrence was a need. Kincaid was a need. Allen Edmunds Oliver Rousseau all need picks. 

Just becuase a need pick doesn't work out doesn't mean it is the wrong strategy.  A BPA philosophy is silly and is never actually followed by anyone. What if a DT or S was BPA this first/second round and they passed on a pass catcher and a guard for another DT or S?

A tiny MLB from Baylor was not a need. A backup RB was not a need. Last year the need was to get an OT or another OL. They failed and had to spend dollars on McGovern.

 

I like Cook, but Dylan Parham was my choice at 3, and he went next pick to LVR, locked in at LG.  Not sure he's good, though, that would mean watching a Raiders game.

[HappyCat]

7 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I still don’t understand this. I thought he was quite good at times last year. Had 2 huge ints

he's a very good player.  He may surprise us all in his 2nd year

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, balln said:

That’s mcbeanes weakness. They hold onto “ their guys “ way too long. No way they would take a first rd LB when edmunds still here - a guy they traded up (I believe gave up 2 2nd Ed picks) to get and had a completely average nfl career 

 

Cody ford , AJE, Basham , Spencer brown , Zach moss ect ….. Nathan peterman 

1 year for a first rounder is too long now? Lol this place rules 🤣