The People v. McBeane (Alternatively, comparing SF to BUF since 2017)

[teef]

7 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I was a fan of OJ before it was cool (1995).  Most people probably dont remember his role as Nordberg in the arthouse film The Naked Gun.

he's no enrico palazzo.

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

good work FireChans.

 

I do think it is necessary to include Stefon Diggs in a discussion of draft picks and roster building. 

 

he was essentially the bills 2020 1st round draft pick.

 

with that being the case is Brandon Aiyuk better than Stefon Diggs? Of course not.

 

now some will whine and complain that we could’ve drafted Justin Jefferson. But that’s such a 20/20 hindsight argument, since you have no idea who will be on the draft board or who the bills would even want to take if they still had the pick. 
 

 

One of the biggest criticisms of this regime (by myself included) has been their drafting so I wanted to keep that strictly draft related. Otherwise, I would have had to include the Jimmy G trade etc etc.

[Billl]

Say what you will about their inability to find an elite QB, but their record when their starter has played is 46-28.  I can't really fault a front office for losing when their starting QB goes down.  

 

Both organizations have incredible regular season records with healthy starting QBs.  Both have sucked with backups (Buffalo is 1-4 when Josh is out).  SF has had more success in the postseason, but not dramatically so.

 

Ultimately, it's two different organizations who have had success in opposite areas of roster construction but they've achieved at very similar levels on the field.  Football is interesting in that regard.  There's a lot of different ways to skin a cat.

[mykidsdad]

This is a strong post. Thank you for doing the legwork. My concern might be the QB we have should have netted better results.

[chongli]

9 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

One small quibble about Josh being legit best pick in Bills history.  Bruce Smith says hi.

 

As does OJ, who also netted us the eventual draft pick we used to pick Jim Kelly when we traded him to the 49ers in 1978.

 

(see: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2021/1/31/22258753/first-overall-picks-traded-o-j-simpson-buffalo-bills-san-francisco-49ers-tom-cousineau)

[maddenboy]

11 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

As much as I love what Josh has done thus far, when you have OJ, Bruce, and Kelly there is no way you can say he’s the best draft pick in franchise history at this point in his career.

yeah.  when i read that portion of the (much appreciated) OP, i didnt wanna nitpick

 

but i instantly thought of OJ.

He put the Bills on the map.  He was the first player on the bills (super bowl era is all i can speak for) that fans of other teams would happily pay their money to watch. 

 

dont think we had that again until Bruce.

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by maddenboy

[maddenboy]

12 hours ago, FireChans said:

Appreciate your opinion.

 

In today's era, the QB value is higher than ever.  Allen is already a better QB than Kelly (some people disagree but that's to be expected around here). Bruce maaaaaaaaaaay have an argument, but the rest, flat out nah.

in that era, running back value was higher than it is today.

 

OJ was a better running back than Allen is a quarterback.

 

OJ is first-ballot "hall within the hall" of fame.

 

---

this is not an "uphill, in the snow, both ways" post.  Just trying to temper the recency bias.

 

many of us remember where we were at 2003, and needing to see it live versus on channel 7 later that night.  Hell, i was like 5 years old.  but i knew it was important to the entire nation.  i wanted to make sure i never forgot it.

 

OJ was gigantic

 

---

(just saw your point about Bruce.  He's a close one.   the only other 'hall within the hall' player we've ever had.

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by maddenboy

[QLBillsFan]

13 hours ago, PBF81 said:

Now, put Allen on the Niners and their QBs on the Bills, and then what do you see?  

 

 

You would see an underused quarterback. It’s his O and he must be the star.
 

Shannahan lost the SB for the ATL handing it to Tommy. Pushing to be cool with style points vs winning. 
 

He clearly wanted Lance because he and Lynch think he’s a QB whisperer. They will never win the SB with him at the helm.

[Doc Brown]

2 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

You would see an underused quarterback. It’s his O and he must be the star.
 

Shannahan lost the SB for the ATL handing it to Tommy. Pushing to be cool with style points vs winning. 
 

He clearly wanted Lance because he and Lynch think he’s a QB whisperer. They will never win the SB with him at the helm.

Dan Quinn's defense lost the Super Bowl for Atlanta giving up 34 points and 546 yards.  He also was one errant Jimmy G errant pass away from winning the Super Bowl against Saint Mahomes.  Saying they'll never win the Super Bowl with him at the helm is crazy to me given he's only 43 years old.

[LABILLBACKER]

13 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The difference is Josh.

 

Somewhat impressive they’ve been mostly good with constant turnover at the QB position and they’ve been to a SB… we’ve been struggling to get there with arguably the 2nd best QB in the league.(Not until 2020 was he truly great however.)

 

 

Still, I’d take Shannon over McD hands down.

Agree.  Until we get a dynamic offensive HC, we will be at a disadvantage. McB will continue down this road of forcing Josh to be a superhero while assets go to other areas that fail us in the playoffs. 

[QLBillsFan]

12 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

That said if all these guys got let go the Niners are getting jobs first

They would be based on MM and the big SF market bias. Lynch has been deemed an amazing GM and yet he has some colossal misses. Lance was been an abject disaster. Shanny has the name and propped up as an offensive guru. Jimmy G wasn’t good enough so they tried to run him out for years.
Would you rather have semi injured Purdy (who has played great) over Josh ? These are decisions these guys made. 

[QLBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Dan Quinn's defense lost the Super Bowl for Atlanta giving up 34 points and 546 yards.  He also was one errant Jimmy G errant pass away from winning the Super Bowl against Saint Mahomes.  Saying they'll never win the Super Bowl with him at the helm is crazy to me given he's only 43 years old.

Watch the game. Shanny absolutely gave the game away. Most of those yards came on a complete air it out comeback that was the correct D strategy given the big lead. If the OC played his cards with any level of responsibility ATL wins the SB. 
The current QB for his team is the last kid drafted. Is it possible he’s the next Brady, sure. Likely, no.
The Bills have a window for the next 7-8 years. Yes perhaps a rebuild in the middle of that. SF and Shanny completely imploded the first overall draft choice. And despite a top 5 roster will not see the SB anytime soon. 

[freddyjj]

12 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

0-1 in the Conference Championship Game with the person we're talking about walking the Loss over to Reid on a silver platter at the end of the game.  

Ergghhh wait a minute.  Pretty sure the loss to KC in 2021 was in divisional round - aka 13 seconds.   Chiefs did not win AFC that year as they lost to Bengals at Arrowhead the next week.

 

Bills lost in AFC championship in 2020 playoffs at KC.  That game was not close.  

[GoBills808]

16 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

They would be based on MM and the big SF market bias. Lynch has been deemed an amazing GM and yet he has some colossal misses. Lance was been an abject disaster. Shanny has the name and propped up as an offensive guru. Jimmy G wasn’t good enough so they tried to run him out for years.
Would you rather have semi injured Purdy (who has played great) over Josh ? These are decisions these guys made. 

The difference between the two teams is clearly the Allen pick

 

Our FO gets credit for that. Niners get their credit for doing more in the postseason w less...and one of those accomplishments is the result of good coaching and management and the other one is kind of lucky

 

 

[QLBillsFan]

11 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

It’s not lucky. Coaches like Shanny and McV are taking ok QBs and getting them to over perform. If Shanny or McV had Josh Allen, we would likely be talking about another dynasty. 

The window for the niners to go to the SB has been wide open in the average NFC for years!!! Each year they have the best D and a great offseason etc.. the Bills would have represented the NFC 2 of the past 4 years.
 

The niners are a lot of hype and have not delivered. Because the O minded head coach that Cowherd et all pine over.. hasn’t got it done. The QB situation is his direct responsibility. Pete Carroll the annoying old guy has out coached the heck out of Shanny.

Having said all that, I wanted McClappy out after 13 seconds. If this year the team falters I am all for a change at coach.

[John from Riverside]

13 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The difference is Josh.

 

Somewhat impressive they’ve been mostly good with constant turnover at the QB position and they’ve been to a SB… we’ve been struggling to get there with arguably the 2nd best QB in the league.(Not until 2020 was he truly great however.)

 

 

Still, I’d take Shannon over McD hands down.

The grass is always greener

[QLBillsFan]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

The difference between the two teams is clearly the Allen pick

 

Our FO gets credit for that. Niners get their credit for doing more in the postseason w less...and one of those accomplishments is the result of good coaching and management and the other one is kind of lucky

 

 

More with less in the NFC? What do you think the Bills do in the NFC playoffs the last 4 years?

BB clearly had JA as the #1 QB in that draft. That was far from a consensus. And he made multiple shrewd deals over a couple of years to position the team to get Josh. Has it turned out well, absolutely. Is it lucky .. no. Have other draft choices been perfect? Absolutely not! 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

More with less in the NFC? What do you think the Bills do in the NFC playoffs the last 4 years?

BB clearly had JA as the #1 QB in that draft. That was far from a consensus. And he made multiple shrewd deals over a couple of years to position the team to get Josh. Has it turned out well, absolutely. Is it lucky .. no. Have other draft choices been perfect? Absolutely not! 

I mean we don't have to guess what the Niners would have done lol, they actually have done it 

 

They have better results w no QB. If the Bills don't draft Allen McDermott and Beane are unemployed right now...meanwhile the Niners still haven't found a QB and they're winning in spite of it. There is no question in my mind who I would prefer running this team

[QLBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I mean we don't have to guess what the Niners would have done lol, they actually have done it 

 

They have better results w no QB. If the Bills don't draft Allen McDermott and Beane are unemployed right now...meanwhile the Niners still haven't found a QB and they're winning in spite of it. There is no question in my mind who I would prefer running this team

Again what have they done ??? The NFC is so inferior. I’ll take BB of the four of them. 

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Again what have they done ??? The NFC is so inferior. I’ll take BB of the four of them. 

Sure in an ideal world give me Beane and Shanahan