Joe Marino Breaks Down Pressures on Allen, blames quite a bit on pocket management

[Thurman#1]

Joe Marino did a play-by-play breakdown of the pressure on Josh and found that a lot of it was on Josh himself. Backing up into rushers who had been directed too deep around him without any pressure forcing that backup. Leaving clean pockets. And so on.

 

 

It's in the first ten minutes.

 

Here's an example of one play that was not Allen's fault according to Joe:  "#4 you had a completion to Stefon Diggs on a first and ten on a comeback route. Josh faced a little pressure in his face because DeMarvin Leal, the Pittsburgh Steelers defensive tackle executed a good bull rush on O'Cyrus Torrence who got worked back into Allen and it affected him just a little bit but it was still a good throw and completion to Stefon Diggs. I would say the reason for the pressure was O'Cyrus Torrence. His hands were wide and late and so DeMarvin Leal was able to get into his chest and work him back and so the pressure on that play, the responsibility for that is O'Cyrus Torrence."

 

Interestingly, he blamed one play on Kincaid, saying he completely missed a chip he was supposed to make, which left Dawkins in an impossible position.

 

His conclusion was there were 12 dropbacks, and he was pressured on six of them, including the sack. He blamed Allen's pocket management for three of them. "Two times, I "guess" it was Dion Dawkins but I thought that was more of a result of Josh Allen and his pocket management. So big asterisk, big air quotes around Dion Dawkins for two of them."

 

Blamed Brown for one, one on Torrence and one on Dalton Kincaid.

 

Marino also points out how outstanding the protection was for Barkley and Kyle Allen. Hmmm. 28 dropbacks, 4 pressures.

 

[Low Positive]

I think that its because they told him that he couldn't run in a PS game and you can't take running out of JA's game. It just throws the whole thing off. I think that just knowing that he has the option to take off helps him stay in there and complete plays.

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

I plan on melting down and throwing a fit based on this information but I need to help knowing who and what to be angry at hit me up in the comments

[Thurman#1]

3 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I think that its because they told him that he couldn't run in a PS game and you can't take running out of JA's game. It just throws the whole thing off. I think that just knowing that he has the option to take off helps him stay in there and complete plays.

 

 

Take a listen. That's really not what Marino says this points to.

[Low Positive]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Take a listen. That's really not what Marino says this points to.

Well, If the problem is acutally Josh the only solution is to trade him because in year 6 he's not going to get any better.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

10 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I think that its because they told him that he couldn't run in a PS game and you can't take running out of JA's game. It just throws the whole thing off. I think that just knowing that he has the option to take off helps him stay in there and complete plays.

Also likely he was trying to not get hit, in the pocket or out. He was definitely playing overly safe.

[frostbitmic]

Is that line capable of forming a pocket ?

[Boatdrinks]

5 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Well, If the problem is acutally Josh the only solution is to trade him because in year 6 he's not going to get any better.

Yes. If Josh is the “ problem” in regular season losses, then it’s time to re-evaluate the Bills entire program and probably the McDermott regime as well. I don’t think we are there .. yet . The offensive line is a huge limiting factor in where this team’s  season is going to end up. If Allen is a limiting factor - again I believe he is a top 3 QB in the NFL- then what are we doing here ? This team has issues , but Josh Allen isn’t one of them. 

[RyanC883]

23 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Joe Marino did a play-by-play breakdown of the pressure on Josh and found that a lot of it was on Josh himself. Backing up into rushers who had been directed too deep around him without any pressure forcing that backup. Leaving clean pockets. And so on.

 

 

It's in the first ten minutes.

 

Here's an example of one play that was not Allen's fault according to Joe:  "#4 you had a completion to Stefon Diggs on a first and ten on a comeback route. Josh faced a little pressure in his face because DeMarvin Leal, the Pittsburgh Steelers defensive tackle executed a good bull rush on O'Cyrus Torrence who got worked back into Allen and it affected him just a little bit but it was still a good throw and completion to Stefon Diggs. I would say the reason for the pressure was O'Cyrus Torrence. His hands were wide and late and so DeMarvin Leal was able to get into his chest and work him back and so the pressure on that play, the responsibility for that is O'Cyrus Torrence."

 

Interestingly, he blamed one play on Kincaid, saying he completely missed a chip he was supposed to make, which left Dawkins in an impossible position.

 

His conclusion was there were 12 dropbacks, and he was pressured on six of them, including the sack. He blamed Allen's pocket management for three of them. "Two times, I "guess" it was Dion Dawkins but I thought that was more of a result of Josh Allen and his pocket management. So big asterisk, big air quotes around Dion Dawkins for two of them."

 

Blamed Brown for one, one on Torrence and one on Dalton Kincaid.

 

Marino also points out how outstanding the protection was for Barkley and Kyle Allen. Hmmm. 28 dropbacks, 4 pressures.

 

 

thanks.  interesting stuff and analysis here.  

 

Did the OL have the Steelers starters when Barkley and Allen were in?  I don't know, that's why I'm asking!  

 

I'm a bit worried that the intense focus on Allen staying in the pocket more could cause more mistakes like what the video alludes to.  Allen does need to stay in the pocket a bit more, and likely this is a function of it being a preseason game and being told to not do anything to get hurt.  Regular season will be interesting, and a concern is this continues.  

[Royale with Cheese]

Allen reverted back to 2018 Allen.  I simply think it's because it's preseason and didn't want to take any extra risks to get hurt....so he got trigger happy feet and bailed early.

We know he's not afraid to take a hit and will take a hit if it means he has to hold onto it an extra millisecond to get that big gain.

[RoyBatty is alive]

Great job, thanks for posting.

 

Putting the blame on 2 rookies makes me feel better, especially Kincaid whose largest weak point as a Tight End is his blocking.  Josh Allen pocket presence is a bit concerning, how much of this was because of pre-season I don't know or because Josh has almost always " gotten away" with leaving the pocket early and improvising..

[SCBills]

Pretty interesting breakdown.  Listened to it earlier.  

 

It does sound like the OL issues were a lot more nuanced, and not as bad, as initially thought.

 

I also think putting Josh out there in games like this is almost dangerous at this point..  case and point, the bizarre play where he ran forward, had a lane to pick up yards, then ran back behind the LOS, changed direction, only to get sacked..  He's clearly thinking too much, to avoid preseason hits, which resulted in a play where he puts himself in a myriad of awkward positions to get hit.... in order to avoid a hit. 

[mbowman14]

The Oline (specifically the tackles) can't be absolved of all blame.  However, there are two issues with Josh:

1. Last season because of the porous play at Guard (Saffold especially), Josh couldn't step up in the pocket on a regular basis and his brain became trained to bail.  This is an issue for the tackles as they do need to drive the pass rush deep at times which is what Dawkins did on the first 3rd and 2 play and backing up took Josh into the rush.  I think this is the biggest reason why Torrence was drafted and McGovern was signed so that the middle of the pocket could be more solid and provide a place to step up into the throw.  Hopefully these two don't get beat immediately or knocked backwards off the LOS as was the case at Guard far too frequently in '22.  Josh will need to adjust to trusting the Guards and Morse to solidify the area directly in front of him to step up into the pocket and not bail.  

2. Josh at times needs to take the easy check-down throws and not rely on bailing the pocket (mostly to his preferred right side) for big plays.  This is easier said than done as big plays are his nature and you don't want to completely remove that threat.

[HappyDays]

Yeah the tackle play was not bad as I thought after my first watch. I am still worried about Dawkins' conditioning though. I don't expect our OL to be elite, I am just hoping for middle of the pack.

 

Allen has not looked that quick to leave the pocket since his rookie year. I don't believe he has suddenly regressed, I think it was drilled into his head that his first priority was to not take any hits in a meaningless preseason game so it affected his play. I also think once he watches the tape and sees that he can trust his interior to hold up and handle stunts, unlike last year, he will be more willing to step up in the pocket and deliver.

 

It was a good podcast, thank you for posting it.

[947]

There was one play early (first drive, I think) where the pocket was clean & Allen could've stepped up if needed. But he bailed out to the right, directly into where TJ Watt was headed. Brown was doing a really good job with Watt on the play, and that fell apart when Allen rolled into the danger zone. It's that stuff that concerns me.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Yeah the tackle play was not bad as I thought after my first watch. I am still worried about Dawkins' conditioning though. I don't expect our OL to be elite, I am just hoping for middle of the pack.

 

Allen has not looked that quick to leave the pocket since his rookie year. I don't believe he has suddenly regressed, I think it was drilled into his head that his first priority was to not take any hits in a meaningless preseason game so it affected his play. I also think once he watches the tape and sees that he can trust his interior to hold up and handle stunts, unlike last year, he will be more willing to step up in the pocket and deliver.

 

It was a good podcast, thank you for posting it.

 

I still think Dion was pretty bad. He was blown by on a couple of those plays. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

They had 10 players on the field on their very first play. There’s that.

[Jukester]

37 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Allen reverted back to 2018 Allen.  I simply think it's because it's preseason and didn't want to take any extra risks to get hurt....so he got trigger happy feet and bailed early.

We know he's not afraid to take a hit and will take a hit if it means he has to hold onto it an extra millisecond to get that big gain.

I agree partly on the happy feet but he definitely is not sliding up in the pocket like he should be. Seems like that should be muscle memory at this point in his career and it’s concerning. Marino gave a great example of Dawkins pushing the end up field on a speed rush, Allen had a good pocket but instead of climbing into it he went laterally into the rusher. I know exactly which play he’s referring to and he’s spot on.  Chalking it up to preseason rust and maybe lack of trust in his o-lime but we’ll see.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Jukester

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Nobody here will accept Josh does dumb things in the game that hurt the team, but it’s true, sometimes he does. 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They had 10 players on the field on their very first play. There’s that.

They should do that all preseason. Think how easy things would feel come regular season!