Colts grant Jonathan Taylor’s request to seek trade

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 8/23/2023 at 9:44 AM, Solomon Grundy said:

Those guys you mentioned didn't have a QB named Josh Allen on their roster. We're not saying running the football win Super Bowls, but with Taylor and Allen it would keep defenses on their heels. Cincinnati wasn't worried about Motor beating them in last year's playoff game. They'll have that worry with JT28

And all Burrow needed to beat us was Joe Mixon who averages significantly less yards per carry than Singletary. Buffalo needs to keep plugging away at the offensive line instead of worrying about signing premier RBs. This is more of a move I see being made circa 2009 to sell tickets or when Allen is closing in on retirement and they are trying to make one final push for a SB. Once they build a mammoth of a line, you’ll quickly see how good they become at finding RBs in the late rounds. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[BillsFan130]

18 minutes ago, buffblue said:

Wouldn't mind it either. Taylor is no doubt a great player, but it just seems like bad juju to continually build your team only through blockbuster trades.

 

They routinely disregard cost controlled assets which is usually not a way to sustain your franchise for long term success. For every Tyreek Hill there is a Bradley Chubb. I think Miami's reckless approach is eventually going to burn them, and there is no guarantee of short term success either. Bottom line is that giving up a 1st AND paying a big contract to a RB would be a highly questionable decision 

100 percent agree.

 

I’m in the camp it’s never smart for a team to give a RB a big 2nd contract.

 

I really can’t remember that ever ending well for the player/team. (with the exception of  Mccafery who is a very unique player)

[buffblue]

12 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

100 percent agree.

 

I’m in the camp it’s never smart for a team to give a RB a big 2nd contract.

 

I really can’t remember that ever ending well for the player/team. (with the exception of  Mccafery who is a very unique player)

To add to my previous post, it makes even less sense when you have an injury prone QB who may be one bad hit away from retirement and an iffy oline. If those question marks didn't exist then maybe you could make a more compelling case to make the trade. I mean, what is wrong with Mostert, Wilson, and now Achane? Seems Miami was able to run it effectively at times last year and McDaniel too often got away from it.

 

It's rare imo that a RB is going to put a team over the top, and I certainly don't think Taylor would do that for the Dolphins. If Miami does in fact make this deal it seems they are headed down the Rams path where anything less than an immediate Super Bowl victory will be a failure because they are mortgaging their long term future. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by buffblue

[BillsFan130]

10 minutes ago, buffblue said:

To add to my previous post, it makes even less sense when you have an injury prone QB who may be one bad hit away from retirement and an iffy oline. If those question marks didn't exist then maybe you could make a more compelling case to make the trade. I mean, what is wrong with Mostert, Wilson, and now Achane? Seems Miami was able to run it effectively at times last year and McDaniel too often got away from it.

 

It's rare imo that a RB is going to put a team over the top, and I certainly don't think Taylor would do that for the Dolphins. If Miami does in fact make this deal it seems they are headed down the Rams path where anything less than an immediate Super Bowl victory will be a failure because they are mortgaging their long term future. 

Stop making sense…

 

Haha 100 percent agree , we definitely see it the same way

[Solomon Grundy]

47 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

And all Burrow needed to beat us was Joe Mixon who averages significantly less yards per carry than Singletary. Buffalo needs to keep plugging away at the offensive line instead of worrying about signing premier RBs. This is more of a move I see being made circa 2009 to sell tickets or when Allen is closing in on retirement and they are trying to make one final push for a SB. Once they build a mammoth of a line, you’ll quickly see how good they become at finding RBs in the late rounds. 

Joe Mixon was STILL a threat that defenses had to be aware of!! Mixon hurt you in the run/pass game and had home run ability!! Motor didn't scare you with the run or receiving. Motor would routinely hit the wrong hole that could've resulted in big plays or he'd simply drop a pass. Y'all need to stop with comparing Motor with other top RBs. Motor was adequate at best!! 

31 minutes ago, buffblue said:

To add to my previous post, it makes even less sense when you have an injury prone QB who may be one bad hit away from retirement and an iffy oline. If those question marks didn't exist then maybe you could make a more compelling case to make the trade. I mean, what is wrong with Mostert, Wilson, and now Achane? Seems Miami was able to run it effectively at times last year and McDaniel too often got away from it.

 

It's rare imo that a RB is going to put a team over the top, and I certainly don't think Taylor would do that for the Dolphins. If Miami does in fact make this deal it seems they are headed down the Rams path where anything less than an immediate Super Bowl victory will be a failure because they are mortgaging their long term future. 

Isn't winning the SB THE GOAL???? 

[buffblue]

10 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Isn't winning the SB THE GOAL???? 

Of course it is. I just don't think trading for Jonathan Taylor is the missing ingredient to Miami actually winning a chip, because of the reasons I previously mentioned. 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

21 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

CJ Moseley is a helluva player.

 

He a tackle machine for sure. But he can be exploited in the pass game and bites hard on play action. Also he's 58 years old

[ngbills]

11 hours ago, Chaos said:

And what anour the 15 million dollar salary demand?

Someone else can pay that next year. 

[Doc]

11 hours ago, buffblue said:

To add to my previous post, it makes even less sense when you have an injury prone QB who may be one bad hit away from retirement and an iffy oline. If those question marks didn't exist then maybe you could make a more compelling case to make the trade. I mean, what is wrong with Mostert, Wilson, and now Achane? Seems Miami was able to run it effectively at times last year and McDaniel too often got away from it.

 

It's rare imo that a RB is going to put a team over the top, and I certainly don't think Taylor would do that for the Dolphins. If Miami does in fact make this deal it seems they are headed down the Rams path where anything less than an immediate Super Bowl victory will be a failure because they are mortgaging their long term future. 

 

Counting on Tua to last, much less picking up his 5th year at $23M next year, is silly.  Basically I look at Miami and Jersey as being in a 2-year win it all mode because they'll be looking for new QBs at the latest by 2025 (and the Cheaters next year).

[benderbender]

1 hour ago, Slippery Rubber Mats said:

He a tackle machine for sure. But he can be exploited in the pass game and bites hard on play action. Also he's 58 years old

This career highlight will live in infamy

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 8/25/2023 at 11:06 PM, Solomon Grundy said:

Joe Mixon was STILL a threat that defenses had to be aware of!! Mixon hurt you in the run/pass game and had home run ability!! Motor didn't scare you with the run or receiving. Motor would routinely hit the wrong hole that could've resulted in big plays or he'd simply drop a pass. Y'all need to stop with comparing Motor with other top RBs. Motor was adequate at best!! 

Isn't winning the SB THE GOAL???? 

Mixon is not a top RB by any stretch averaging only 3.9 yards per carry last year. It was a disgraceful showing by the Buffalo defense to even allow such a mediocre talent to thrive. Credit to Mixon for executing, but the Bengals back up OL came to play that day. Yes, the goal is to win a SB and that’s by making smart acquisitions in the off-season and avoiding big name/money players at a dying position. Sad, but true.

[billsfan89]

On 8/25/2023 at 7:26 PM, BillsFan130 said:

100 percent agree.

 

I’m in the camp it’s never smart for a team to give a RB a big 2nd contract.

 

I really can’t remember that ever ending well for the player/team. (with the exception of  Mccafery who is a very unique player)

 

There have been some RB's who got a big contract after their rookie deals and played well in recent years. 

 

Derrick Henry - Signed a 4 year 50 million dollar deal after the 2019 season. He rushed for 2k yards in 2020 and then after an injury-shortened 2021 (where he still nearly pushed 1k yards) he pushed over 1500 yards in 2022. About 2.5 seasons of production and could still add to that. 

 

LeSean McCoy - Signed a pair of big contracts starting in 2012 with a 45 million dollar deal and then got a 5 year 50 million dollar deal in 2015 with the Bills. From 2012 to 2017 Shady had 4 seasons with over 1k yards including leading the league in rushing in 2013. 

 

Alvin Kamara - Signed a big extension in 2020 off-season, has more or less performed the way he did from 2017-2019 being a key part of NOLA's offense. 

 

Nick Chubb - Signed a big extension prior to 2021 and has turned in a pair of big seasons in 2021 and 2022. 

 

Dalvin Cook - Prior to the 2020 season he signed a massive extension. From 2020 to 2022 he rushed for 1k yards on 4.4 yards per carry average or better. Including a very impressive 1500+ yard season in 2020. 

 

While there have been examples like Lev Bell and Zeke where second RB contracts have flopped. There have been plenty that have delivered.

[Solomon Grundy]

7 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Mixon is not a top RB by any stretch averaging only 3.9 yards per carry last year. It was a disgraceful showing by the Buffalo defense to even allow such a mediocre talent to thrive. Credit to Mixon for executing, but the Bengals back up OL came to play that day. Yes, the goal is to win a SB and that’s by making smart acquisitions in the off-season and avoiding big name/money players at a dying position. Sad, but true.

I don't think you sign an average RB to a 4yr/$48,000,000 contract, but what do I know. I bet Motor wouldn't get that kind of offer 😎

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 8/26/2023 at 6:06 AM, Solomon Grundy said:

On 8/26/2023 at 5:13 AM, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Expand  

Joe Mixon was STILL a threat that defenses had to be aware of!! Mixon hurt you in the run/pass game and had home run ability!! Motor didn't scare you with the run or receiving. Motor would routinely hit the wrong hole that could've resulted in big plays or he'd simply drop a pass. Y'all need to stop with comparing Motor with other top RBs. Motor was adequate at best!! 

What they should be saying is a RB like Singletary who now is in his rightful spot as a bkup on a horrible team to say the least averaged nearly 5yds per carry facing light boxes the majority of the time while in Buffalo Imagine what an elite player like Taylor can do?  
 

I think the problem is people automatically think we’ll become a running team if we get an elite back. That’s far from the truth break it down by plays the Bills averaged from 66-68 plays per game on offense the last 3 seasons even if we stay around that number that still gives u at least 35/40 snaps a game where Allen drops back to pass and u still have another 30/33 plays for the running backs 20-22 for Taylor and another 10-12 touches for Cook . That’s not even counting the plays we’re they can also be part of the passing game. Now with that being said around 40% of the plays an offense runs the bks are involved why not have elite talent to rely on when your running? Not only that I believe the addition of an elite back like Taylor will also help us run even more plays per game I would think he would help the offense run anywhere between 70/75 plays per game because we will be more potent with him on the field and this also helps Cook play the position he’s better suited at which is change of pace backup where he can be way more effective getting less touches and staying fresh. I don’t know if I would give the Colts a 1st but anything less then that would suffice and put the Bills in the driver seat in the AFC and possibly the Super Bowl favorites. 

[Dr. Who]

18 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

What they should be saying is a RB like Singletary who now is in his rightful spot as a bkup on a horrible team to say the least averaged nearly 5yds per carry facing light boxes the majority of the time while in Buffalo Imagine what an elite player like Taylor can do?  
 

I think the problem is people automatically think we’ll become a running team if we get an elite back. That’s far from the truth break it down by plays the Bills averaged from 66-68 plays per game on offense the last 3 seasons even if we stay around that number that still gives u at least 35/40 snaps a game where Allen drops back to pass and u still have another 30/33 plays for the running backs 20-22 for Taylor and another 10-12 touches for Cook . That’s not even counting the plays we’re they can also be part of the passing game. Now with that being said around 40% of the plays an offense runs the bks are involved why not have elite talent to rely on when your running? Not only that I believe the addition of an elite back like Taylor will also help us run even more plays per game I would think he would help the offense run anywhere between 70/75 plays per game because we will be more potent with him on the field and this also helps Cook play the position he’s better suited at which is change of pace backup where he can be way more effective getting less touches and staying fresh. I don’t know if I would give the Colts a 1st but anything less then that would suffice and put the Bills in the driver seat in the AFC and possibly the Super Bowl favorites. 

I surmise you are comfortable paying Taylor an exceptional amount of coin for a RB. How do you propose fitting him under the cap?

MLB, OT, QB2, (WR2, imo, but nothing will be done there), are still positions that appear to need upgrading with significantly more urgency. RB actually seems to be one of the positions with pretty good depth. I understand the argument about Taylor as elite. In today's game, elite RB rarely moves the needle. Would Taylor? Perhaps, but it's an academic dispute, regardless. It would be shocking if Beane were at all interested in such a move, especially considering cost in draft capital and percentage of the cap required to make it happen. I also think Cook can carry more of the burden than you suppose, though the idea that he is more suited to be a change of pace back is a popular one.

 

[BillsFan130]

5 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

There have been some RB's who got a big contract after their rookie deals and played well in recent years. 

 

Derrick Henry - Signed a 4 year 50 million dollar deal after the 2019 season. He rushed for 2k yards in 2020 and then after an injury-shortened 2021 (where he still nearly pushed 1k yards) he pushed over 1500 yards in 2022. About 2.5 seasons of production and could still add to that. 

 

LeSean McCoy - Signed a pair of big contracts starting in 2012 with a 45 million dollar deal and then got a 5 year 50 million dollar deal in 2015 with the Bills. From 2012 to 2017 Shady had 4 seasons with over 1k yards including leading the league in rushing in 2013. 

 

Alvin Kamara - Signed a big extension in 2020 off-season, has more or less performed the way he did from 2017-2019 being a key part of NOLA's offense. 

 

Nick Chubb - Signed a big extension prior to 2021 and has turned in a pair of big seasons in 2021 and 2022. 

 

Dalvin Cook - Prior to the 2020 season he signed a massive extension. From 2020 to 2022 he rushed for 1k yards on 4.4 yards per carry average or better. Including a very impressive 1500+ yard season in 2020. 

 

While there have been examples like Lev Bell and Zeke where second RB contracts have flopped. There have been plenty that have delivered.

Fair points but even if they do deliver, you’re tying up a lot of assets to a position that is very replaceable.

 

When Henry went down in 2021, the titans rushing offence if I’m not mistaken was as effective, or at least close to being as effective without him in the lineup.

I think to have a good rushing offence it’s way more important to have good scheme/good o line, opposed to investing heavy in the RB position itself 

 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

4 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I surmise you are comfortable paying Taylor an exceptional amount of coin for a RB. How do you propose fitting him under the cap?

MLB, OT, QB2, (WR2, imo, but nothing will be done there), are still positions that appear to need upgrading with significantly more urgency. RB actually seems to be one of the positions with pretty good depth. I understand the argument about Taylor as elite. In today's game, elite RB rarely moves the needle. Would Taylor? Perhaps, but it's an academic dispute, regardless. It would be shocking if Beane were at all interested in such a move, especially considering cost in draft capital and percentage of the cap required to make it happen. I also think Cook can carry more of the burden than you suppose, though the idea that he is more suited to be a change of pace back is a popular one.

 

I guess we will never know what it’s like to have a true down down elite back next to Josh in the bkfield . U can’t deny that plays are run for RBs on nearly 40% of the snaps on offense Why won’t u want to maximize those snaps? Btw we got money to throw around for rotational lineman on defense 9 mil for Floyd , 12 mil for Oliver there not even elite at there positions . The cap can be circumvented believe that. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Being a great NFL team in this generation is mostly about difference makers and it doesn’t matter what positions they play really. The Chiefs had 8 rookies contributing to there Super Bowl run last season including 4 starters on defense and 1 on offense. But they also have the top heavy talent in Mahomes, Kelce & Jones as well as some really good to great olineman they still won the title even with all those rookies because of there top talent . In 2010 Green Bay also did nearly the same with 4 starting rookies on there Super Bowl team. If u have a chance to add an immense talent like Taylor u do it and u don’t look back until your hosting that Lombardi trophy! 

[billsfan89]

4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Fair points but even if they do deliver, you’re tying up a lot of assets to a position that is very replaceable.

 

When Henry went down in 2021, the titans rushing offence if I’m not mistaken was as effective, or at least close to being as effective without him in the lineup.

I think to have a good rushing offence it’s way more important to have good scheme/good o line, opposed to investing heavy in the RB position itself 

 

I generally agree that RB is not a position I would invest massive resources into as I think offensive line is a much better investment for those cap dollars. But keeping a great top 5-7 RB at a cost is not always a bad idea in certain circumstances.

[buffblue]

10 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

There have been some RB's who got a big contract after their rookie deals and played well in recent years. 

 

Derrick Henry - Signed a 4 year 50 million dollar deal after the 2019 season. He rushed for 2k yards in 2020 and then after an injury-shortened 2021 (where he still nearly pushed 1k yards) he pushed over 1500 yards in 2022. About 2.5 seasons of production and could still add to that. 

 

LeSean McCoy - Signed a pair of big contracts starting in 2012 with a 45 million dollar deal and then got a 5 year 50 million dollar deal in 2015 with the Bills. From 2012 to 2017 Shady had 4 seasons with over 1k yards including leading the league in rushing in 2013. 

 

Alvin Kamara - Signed a big extension in 2020 off-season, has more or less performed the way he did from 2017-2019 being a key part of NOLA's offense. 

 

Nick Chubb - Signed a big extension prior to 2021 and has turned in a pair of big seasons in 2021 and 2022. 

 

Dalvin Cook - Prior to the 2020 season he signed a massive extension. From 2020 to 2022 he rushed for 1k yards on 4.4 yards per carry average or better. Including a very impressive 1500+ yard season in 2020. 

 

While there have been examples like Lev Bell and Zeke where second RB contracts have flopped. There have been plenty that have delivered.

How many of these guys have been the difference makers in their team reaching the Super Bowl? Exactly zero.

 

It's not hard to figure out why. The only teams that foolishly waste big money on the position are the ones who lack a long term, franchise qb. Without one of those, you're not winning anything regardless of how good your running back room may be.

Edited August 27, 2023 by buffblue