Josh Allen is the best weapon in the NFL and he’s not protected.

[ToGoGo]

I may be wrong but I think there are a few reasons. 
 

1. Our success gives us late round draft picks so we miss out on the best tackles. 
2. Defense first mindset leads to defense draft picks in the first round. 
3. Trading Teller was Beane’s biggest blunder and he’ll tell you that himself. 
4. Dawkins got a bad case of Covid which has affected his prime. 
5. We generally focus on one year veteran rentals on the Oline and put our money elsewhere. 
6. Morse was a great FA pickup. Spencer Brown has been a so-so pick. 
7. Big swing and miss on Cody Ford. 
8. Allen being Allen makes us undervalue Oline. Cognitive bias. 
 

In my opinion trading Teller and screwing up the Cody Ford pick is why we are still here today. Those two things going our way and Dawkins not getting a bad case of Covid and we would’ve had an elite Oline for a few years now. 
 

 

[34-78-83]

Dawkins ( despite preseason performances which mean nothing) is an above average LT in the league. Not a star. But not a jag. This is proven.

 

 Morse is an above average Center… same rationale as above with Dawkins

 

McGovern excels in pass protection. He has a track record. He has been playing well on the Bills. There is film review if this is you know how to use YouTube. This is the Bills addressing a need.

 

Torrence has looked like the real deal thus far and is winning the job ( tough to do as a rookie on this team!). He has looked good on film reviews from both games so far. Ie.  

 

 

Even Brown has had some better play ( see the Torrence video above) than the torches and pitchforks people realize. Given that, he still has a lot to prove and also needs to stay healthy.

 

The Bills have a good reserve G and C in Bates.

 

What does all this tell us? Josh DOES have protection and the team has addressed it how they could this off season considering their contracts and cap situation. Is it the ‘91 hogs or the ‘93 Cowboys o line? No… but in today’s NFL, this line up is pretty competent. Not perfect by any means, but competent. And someone also astutely pointed out that at times, Josh makes things very difficult on the o line… this is true. This is not something Josh necessarily needs to change its just a fact and part of the equation.

[billsfan89]

The interior offensive line has looked good and solid, the tackles are a concern but Dawkins is usually solid (although his conditioning is a concern) and Spencer Brown has looked better than he is portrayed to be. 
 

I do suspect a top pick will be spent at tackle or center next draft to further boost the offensive line and get younger/deeper there. But this past season there was a legitimate attempt to improve the offensive line 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, 34-78-83 said:

Dawkins ( despite preseason performances which mean nothing) is an above average LT in the league. Not a star. But not a jag. This is proven.

 

 Morse is an above average Center… same rationale as above with Dawkins

 

McGovern excels in pass protection. He has a track record. He has been playing well on the Bills. There is film review if this is you know how to use YouTube. This is the Bills addressing a need.

 

Torrence has looked like the real deal thus far and is winning the job ( tough to do as a rookie on this team!). He has looked good on film reviews from both games so far. Ie.  

 

 

Even Brown has had some better play ( see the Torrence video above) than the torches and pitchforks people realize. Given that, he still has a lot to prove and also needs to stay healthy.

 

The Bills have a good reserve G and C in Bates.

 

What does all this tell us? Josh DOES have protection and the team has addressed it how they could this off season considering their contracts and cap situation. Is it the ‘91 hogs or the ‘93 Cowboys o line? No… but in today’s NFL, this line up is pretty competent. Not perfect by any means, but competent. And someone also astutely pointed out that at times, Josh makes things very difficult on the o line… this is true. This is not something Josh necessarily needs to change its just a fact and part of the equation.

This.  Well played.  

[hondo in seattle]

5 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Think about that. In its simplicity why is that? This has to be Beane’s biggest error/flaw and may just cost him his job. It’s very frustrating to just watch this underperforming OL and realize the results it’s going to bring. 

 

I've been saying this for a long time.  Josh is the most valuable player on the team.  We need to give him a capable bodyguard.

A good offensive line does all sorts of things for us:

 

*  Give Josh more time to throw.

*  Gives WRs more time to get open.

*  Gives Dorsey more options (sometimes, he seems to like slow developing plays).

*  Gives the RBs lanes to run through. 

*  Diversifies our offense and makes it more potent by making the running game a real threat (what do you defend?)

*  Allows us to grind out first downs in bad weather games.

*  Allows us to wind down the clock in the 4th quarter when we have a lead.

*  PROTECTS JOSH ALL FROM INJURY!

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

People overblow the OL thing by a mile…. actually many miles.  Keep in mind josh Allen holds the ball longer than every qb in the league.   He is one of the toughest qbs to block for because he ends up running anywhere.   There are two new starters this year at G and while I agree the tackles are inconsistent it is not nearly as bad as people say.  The Steelers have some of the best edge guys around.   Chill

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Dawkins ( despite preseason performances which mean nothing) is an above average LT in the league. Not a star. But not a jag. This is proven.

 

 Morse is an above average Center… same rationale as above with Dawkins

 

McGovern excels in pass protection. He has a track record. He has been playing well on the Bills. There is film review if this is you know how to use YouTube. This is the Bills addressing a need.

 

Torrence has looked like the real deal thus far and is winning the job ( tough to do as a rookie on this team!). He has looked good on film reviews from both games so far. Ie.  

 

 

Even Brown has had some better play ( see the Torrence video above) than the torches and pitchforks people realize. Given that, he still has a lot to prove and also needs to stay healthy.

 

The Bills have a good reserve G and C in Bates.

 

What does all this tell us? Josh DOES have protection and the team has addressed it how they could this off season considering their contracts and cap situation. Is it the ‘91 hogs or the ‘93 Cowboys o line? No… but in today’s NFL, this line up is pretty competent. Not perfect by any means, but competent. And someone also astutely pointed out that at times, Josh makes things very difficult on the o line… this is true. This is not something Josh necessarily needs to change its just a fact and part of the equation.

Dawkins WAS an above average LT.  Since middle to late last year hes been looking like an average tackle.  On Saturday he looked decidedly below average.  Hes on the decline in his career and with his conditioning issues I dont expect it will be a graceful decline.

[PrimeTime101]

5 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Ok, I guess the real test will be the Jets’ DL against this impenetrable wall that we have as an OL. Me personally I don’t expect to like the results.

this whole division has a good defense. 4 teams in this division could end up being in the top 8 in NFL Defenses this season. 

[PatsFanNH]

5 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Think about that. In its simplicity why is that? This has to be Beane’s biggest error/flaw and may just cost him his job. It’s very frustrating to just watch this underperforming OL and realize the results it’s going to bring. 

I think your title should read “one of the best weapons in the NFL” I think a lot of people would argue Mahomes is the biggest weapon.. that man completes crazy passes.. 

[MPL]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I'll say what I've said before, and get flamed for it.  

 

I think Allen is the problem. 

 

Yes, Allen may be the best weapon in the NFL, but if he is, it's because he runs around back there and sometimes takes off for big gains.  

 

Allen is not the best quarterback in the NFL. 

 

If he were the best quarterback in the NFL, I'd agree, he needs great protection.   But if the Bills want to take advantage of his running, they need lineman who can block downfield, and that's what they have.  

 

The problem with the Bills is not that they can't protect Allen.  The problem is that Allen doesn't do what great quarterbacks do, which is to release the ball quickly and accurately to the receiver who is open.   That's what good QBs do.  They have high completion percentages because they take and make the easy throws. 

 

Allen is not patient.   He isn't willing to give up on a play and take the easy throw.  He wants the chunk play every play.   Good quarterbacks take the chunk play when it's there and take the easy throw when it isn't.  

 

Either his coaches are failing him, or he's failing himself.   His future, if it's bright, is as a pocket passer, and he's wasting his precious time on the field by trying to hit home runs every play.  The best quarterbacks take what's easy.  

I think there's merit to this. Josh needs to protect himself from Josh. 

We've seen Josh play QB like Brady and Manning: reading the defense pre-snap, getting it to his hot reads quickly, and waiting for the perfect opportunities to take shots. He's done it. He has shown he's more than capable of doing it.

But other times—for some reason—he just doesn't do it. 

Josh has to evolve. Has to. And he knows it. He's said as much. But, will he? That's TBD. 

 

And here's the thing—when Josh does read the defense and gets the ball out quickly the o-line starts looking better. It's give and take. Yes, the o-line needs to help Josh but Josh also needs to help the o-line. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, 34-78-83 said:

Dawkins ( despite preseason performances which mean nothing) is an above average LT in the league. Not a star. But not a jag. This is proven.

 

 Morse is an above average Center… same rationale as above with Dawkins

 

McGovern excels in pass protection. He has a track record. He has been playing well on the Bills. There is film review if this is you know how to use YouTube. This is the Bills addressing a need.

 

Torrence has looked like the real deal thus far and is winning the job ( tough to do as a rookie on this team!). He has looked good on film reviews from both games so far. Ie.  

 

 

Even Brown has had some better play ( see the Torrence video above) than the torches and pitchforks people realize. Given that, he still has a lot to prove and also needs to stay healthy.

 

The Bills have a good reserve G and C in Bates.

 

What does all this tell us? Josh DOES have protection and the team has addressed it how they could this off season considering their contracts and cap situation. Is it the ‘91 hogs or the ‘93 Cowboys o line? No… but in today’s NFL, this line up is pretty competent. Not perfect by any means, but competent. And someone also astutely pointed out that at times, Josh makes things very difficult on the o line… this is true. This is not something Josh necessarily needs to change its just a fact and part of the equation.

I think it's hard to rationalize preseason performances meaning nothing and the assertion that this line up is pretty competent myself

 

 

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

I think your title should read “one of the best weapons in the NFL” I think a lot of people would argue Mahomes is the biggest weapon.. that man completes crazy passes.. 

two guesses who has the most TDs in the league over the last 3years

 

 

[Airseven]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

But this past season there was a legitimate attempt to improve the offensive line 

A third tier FA and 2nd round guard isn’t good enough. Dawkins and Brown both struggled last season.

[78thealltimegreat]

7 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I'll say what I've said before, and get flamed for it.  

 

I think Allen is the problem. 

 

Yes, Allen may be the best weapon in the NFL, but if he is, it's because he runs around back there and sometimes takes off for big gains.  

 

Allen is not the best quarterback in the NFL. 

 

If he were the best quarterback in the NFL, I'd agree, he needs great protection.   But if the Bills want to take advantage of his running, they need lineman who can block downfield, and that's what they have.  

 

The problem with the Bills is not that they can't protect Allen.  The problem is that Allen doesn't do what great quarterbacks do, which is to release the ball quickly and accurately to the receiver who is open.   That's what good QBs do.  They have high completion percentages because they take and make the easy throws. 

 

Allen is not patient.   He isn't willing to give up on a play and take the easy throw.  He wants the chunk play every play.   Good quarterbacks take the chunk play when it's there and take the easy throw when it isn't.  

 

Either his coaches are failing him, or he's failing himself.   His future, if it's bright, is as a pocket passer, and he's wasting his precious time on the field by trying to hit home runs every play.  The best quarterbacks take what's easy.  

Allen had 2 incompletions in his 3 drives.

It doesn’t explain the fact James Cook on second and 4 couldn’t pickup a single yard. 
 

Or Spencer Brown on a simple WR Screen gets called for a block in the back. 
 

Or when he drops back to pass Dawkins allows Highsmith to look like the second coming of Greg Lloyd. 
 

You sound like Matt Perino who thinks every single problem with this team is Josh Allen. 
 

Just pray 17 doesn’t miss any games or you’ll find out the hard way what life was like before he got here. Here’s a hint it sucked badly. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by 78thealltimegreat

[The Wiz]

13 hours ago, arcane said:

The line was particularly bad at guard last year. Both McGovern and Torrence showed excellent play against a stout line Saturday 

 

Brown was not as bad as everyone wailed about either

 

I ***** hate bills fans man

OH YEA...

 

 

[CSBill]

12 hours ago, Fan in San Diego said:

I'm hoping they sign a RT to replace Doyle.

 

 

Any updates on the Jason Peters rumor?

[Shaw66]

9 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

You sound like Matt Perino who thinks every single problem with this team is Josh Allen. 
 

Just pray 17 doesn’t miss any games or you’ll find out the hard way what life was like before he got here. Here’s a hint it sucked badly. 

It's quite likely that I remember what life was like before you were alive.  

 

Every player on the team has a job to do.  Like everyone else, Josh's job is to be the best version of himself.   Josh's best version of himself is the greatest quarterback of all time.  He isn't there yet.  He isn't even the best quarterback of this time.  

 

Josh has work to do.  It's his job.  

[78thealltimegreat]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

It's quite likely that I remember what life was like before you were alive.  

 

Every player on the team has a job to do.  Like everyone else, Josh's job is to be the best version of himself.   Josh's best version of himself is the greatest quarterback of all time.  He isn't there yet.  He isn't even the best quarterback of this time.  

 

Josh has work to do.  It's his job.  

Well that’s nice can’t wait to go back to the days when the Bills were trying to get the Kyle Ortons of the world out of retirement. 

[mrags]

18 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Dion Dawkins is a poor training camp/ preseason football player

5 years in a row.

It's not a rumor 

He’s even worse at dieting 

[MJS]

Much of the pressure in the last preseason game was due to Josh Allen moving poorly in the pocket or bailing out of clean pockets. Allen needed to step up instead of retreat, and there was two times he bailed out and rolled to the right, causing his own pressure. Another time he took a 7 step drop and then hitched like 4 times before throwing it. Linemen can't block that long, usually.

 

It's not all on the oline. Allen had poor pocket presence and held the ball too long at times.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

19 hours ago, Tipster19 said:

Think about that. In its simplicity why is that? This has to be Beane’s biggest error/flaw and may just cost him his job. It’s very frustrating to just watch this underperforming OL and realize the results it’s going to bring. 

Yup, this is correct. 

 

We have a franchise QB for the first time since Kelly, and the Bills plan has consistently been to go cheap on the line: mid-round OL, low-end free agents, a lot of developmental projects. 

 

LG has been a rotation of past their prime veterans: Vlad Ducasse, Quinton Spain, Ike Boettger, Rodger Saffold. 

 

RT has been approached the same way by this regime: Jordan Mills, Connor McDermott, Cody Ford (briefly), Daryl Williams, Spencer Brown, David Quesenberry, Bobby Hart. 

 

I'm listening to WGR from yesterday, and it's just shocking to me that they are puzzled after Saturday that RT is still a problem. Say it out loud, this team banked on a 3rd Rounder from Northern Iowa taking a big step, despite being a below average starter with a back injury on his resume now. 

 

Fans were pointing out after the 2nd Training Camp practice that Brown couldn't even bend down to pick up his helmet. 

 

So more of the same on the line: David Edwards, Van Demark, Connor McGovern, etc. It's cheap, low-end players.