Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 2

[HappyDays]

56 minutes ago, Jukester said:

Yep as much as he is our savior,  he does need to start playing with more composure. This video is telling. 
 

 

 

Yeah that play is awful lol. A textbook case of looking at the rush instead of looking at the routes. If I'm going to try and excuse it, I would guess that before the game it was drilled into Josh's head "don't get hit don't get hit don't get hit" a million times so when he sees a flash of TJ Watt making a spin move he instinctually went into escape mode. Josh is not afraid of contact. I know he has the cajones to stand in the pocket. He just has to trust his OL will hold up and not be thinking about escape as soon as the ball is snapped.

[GoBills808]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah that play is awful lol. A textbook case of looking at the rush instead of looking at the routes. If I'm going to try and excuse it, I would guess that before the game it was drilled into Josh's head "don't get hit don't get hit don't get hit" a million times so when he sees a flash of TJ Watt making a spin move he instinctually went into escape mode. Josh is not afraid of contact. I know he has the cajones to stand in the pocket. He just has to trust his OL will hold up and not be thinking about escape as soon as the ball is snapped.

that's exactly what I saw

 

didn't trust the help on Watt to show up (which it did...not that I necessarily blame Allen for that train of thought) and by that point he's already bailing

 

it's a mistake because he has Diggs there and it's basically a one step drop from shotgun but he need to trust the rookie to switch properly

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Hopefully the Saffold induced PTSD

 

Yeah I think this is a big part of it.

[Ralonzo]

If I didn't make it obvious in other threads:

 

Trending up:

 

Alec Anderson - C/G - Not sure when the light went on for him, but he was very good last week and better this week. Didn't see him lose a rep, and was THE key block in maybe a half dozen snaps. And he has some attitude, casually pitching opponents to the turf. Seems to have superior balance and core strength, much like Teller. His emergence might make Bates the surprise cut this year? If Anderson continues his trajectory like this you could be looking at your post-Morse starter for 10 years.

 

Trending down:

 

Ike Boettger G / David Quessenberry T - Boettger landed on his face just before Doyle wrecked himself trying to block the guy that went by Ike. Quessenberry's mark made multiple plays - i.e. the Barkley fumble. Quessenberry was bad last year and is a shell of that this year. Boettger was Just A Guy at a time when the Bills interior situation made that a vast improvement, and he's also a shell of the player he was before the Achilles.

 

If I get to watching the defensive snaps for analysis, I'll follow on. I will say Hamlin looked like he was in molasses trying to get to the runner at the sideline on one play where Neal flew past him and made the play. Also Dorian looks small standing next to Hamlin lol.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Ralonzo

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, Ralonzo said:

If I didn't make it obvious in other threads:

 

Trending up:

 

Alec Anderson - C/G - Not sure when the light went on for him, but he was very good last week and better this week. Didn't see him lose a rep, and was THE key block in maybe a half dozen snaps. And he has some attitude, casually pitching opponents to the turf. Seems to have superior balance and core strength, much like Teller. His emergence might make Bates the surprise cut this year?

 

Trending down:

 

Ike Boettger G / David Quessenberry T - Boettger landed on his face just before Doyle wrecked himself trying to block the guy that went by Ike. Quessenberry's mark made multiple plays - i.e. the Barkley fumble. Quessenberry was bad last year and is a shell of that this year. Boettger was Just A Guy at a time when the Bills interior situation made that a vast improvement, and he's also a shell of the player he was before the Achilles.

 

If I get to watching the defensive snaps for analysis, I'll follow on. I will say Hamlin looked like he was in molasses trying to get to the runner at the sideline on one play where Neal flew past him and made the play. Also Dorian looks small standing next to Hamlin lol.

Surely Bates would have some value in a trade if it comes to that.

[Ralonzo]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Surely Bates would have some value in a trade if it comes to that.

 

Sure hope so. Chicago comes to mind, lol.

 

But what I'm seeing is, Anderson is out-performing Bates at Bates' former role - primary backup to the 3 interior positions, and a guy who can get you out of a game at tackle. Bates went from that, to starter, but with McGovern signed and Torrence ascending, he needs to outperform Anderson and Edwards and he just isn't.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Ralonzo

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Sure hope so. Chicago comes to mind, lol.

 

But what I'm seeing is, Anderson is out-performing Bates at Bates' former role - primary backup to the 3 interior positions, and a guy who can get you out of a game at tackle. Bates went from that, to starter, but with McGovern signed and Torrence ascending, he needs to outperform Anderson and Edwards and he just isn't.

I am keen on Anderson. Edwards is coming off injury. If he is playing well, that is a plus. I don't think your surmise unreasonable.

[Doc]

Just watched the long TD run play (a handful of times) and Warren fakes like he's going inside and that leads Poyer to take a step inside and lose him.

[major]

31 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah that play is awful lol. A textbook case of looking at the rush instead of looking at the routes. If I'm going to try and excuse it, I would guess that before the game it was drilled into Josh's head "don't get hit don't get hit don't get hit" a million times so when he sees a flash of TJ Watt making a spin move he instinctually went into escape mode. Josh is not afraid of contact. I know he has the cajones to stand in the pocket. He just has to trust his OL will hold up and not be thinking about escape as soon as the ball is snapped.

Also, is being told not to run affecting his mindset?

[Big Blitz]

Last night capped Dodson’s very bad week. 
 

He was probably heated at practice because he was getting abused.  
 

No one gets that mad when they’re playing well.  He’s a freaking cut candidate if you ask me.  I know he saw some game action last year.  He played so “well” I don’t remember which ones or if he did anything.  

Edited August 20, 2023 by Big Blitz

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

that's exactly what I saw

 

didn't trust the help on Watt to show up (which it did...not that I necessarily blame Allen for that train of thought) and by that point he's already bailing

 

it's a mistake because he has Diggs there and it's basically a one step drop from shotgun but he need to trust the rookie to switch properly

 

I do worry that the protection issues have got to him. There were times down the stretch last year when I thought the same. I am not blaming Josh for that - the last two years worth of lines have been offensive... he will have to learn that trust again. That will take some time on task and the oline showing some consistency (I do have some hope for the intetior they have been decent through 2 pre-season games). 

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I do worry that the protection issues have got to him. There were times down the stretch last year when I thought the same. I am not blaming Josh for that - the last two years worth of lines have been offensive... he will have to learn that trust again. That will take some time on task and the oline showing some consistency (I do have some hope for the intetior they have been decent through 2 pre-season games). 

I just can't give the oline a pass, I know they're not really big time prospects but enough is enough at this point

 

if you can't run the ball when you need to (and we can't for the last 5years) you need to be above average in pass pro...which they haven't been. there was one half of one season in 2020 where they magically put Williams in at RT and it worked but outside that they are a borderline bad unit overall

 

those things being the case I am entirely willing to live w Allen doing his 90% amazing/10% bonehead routine because it's a more clear path to success than relying on the offensive line to finally figure it out

[noacls]

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Williams is a pipsqueak.

He is taller and heavier than Milano.

[SectionC3]

21 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Last night capped Dodson’s very bad week. 
 

He was probably heated at practice because he was getting abused.  
 

No one gets that mad when they’re playing well.  He’s a freaking cut candidate if you ask me.  I know he saw some game action last year.  He played so “well” I don’t remember which ones or if he did anything.  

 

I'm with you on Dodson.  I also wonder if McBeane is going to make a move to shake things up a bit after last night's sleepwalk.  Maybe somebody gets an early release.  Maybe the depth chart somewhere gets a shakeup.  (How about some first team reps for Van Demark this week, for example)?  It's time to rattle some cages. 

[GunnerBill]

39 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I just can't give the oline a pass, I know they're not really big time prospects but enough is enough at this point

 

if you can't run the ball when you need to (and we can't for the last 5years) you need to be above average in pass pro...which they haven't been. there was one half of one season in 2020 where they magically put Williams in at RT and it worked but outside that they are a borderline bad unit overall

 

those things being the case I am entirely willing to live w Allen doing his 90% amazing/10% bonehead routine because it's a more clear path to success than relying on the offensive line to finally figure it out

 

Oh I am not giving the oline a pass, make no mistake. I have banged on for two years about them being our biggest issue. You are right 2020 is the only time I think Allen has had a good (and it was good not great) offensive line and he had a career year. That isn't coincidence. 

 

I have some hope for the interior going into this year but Dion is really concerning me. Upgrading the guard spots but downgrading at left tackle feels a bit 1 step forward 2 steps back. 

 

[NeverOutNick]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Oh I am not giving the oline a pass, make no mistake. I have banged on for two years about them being our biggest issue. You are right 2020 is the only time I think Allen has had a good (and it was good not great) offensive line and he had a career year. That isn't coincidence. 

 

I have some hope for the interior going into this year but Dion is really concerning me. Upgrading the guard spots but downgrading at left tackle feels a bit 1 step forward 2 steps back. 

 

All off-season I was banging the drum on drafting an OT or even 2. I was happy that we got Kincaid and Cyrus but round 3 we dropped the ball again. I like Williams but we knew he was an OLB and had the chance to move up a couple spots for the Clemson MLB Simpson or stay out and take the best OT available. Which by the way the Chiefs took the OT Morris from Oklahoma the very next pick. I love Beane but he has to drop the pride with keeping some of his picks he’s missed on. Dawkins isn’t the same and Brown May never be what he wants him to be. That’s ok but dude have a backup plan. Hopefully he keeps some of the promising undrafted guys like Van Denmark and Alec Anderson and maybe go out and trade one of your many really good DEs we can’t keep like Johnathan or Cline for another diamond in the rough OT

[vincec]

The other thing that concerned me, which no one is mentioning, is that the starting DL seems unable to generate a pass rush without blitzing or a protection breakdown. They just don’t beat the guys in front of them.

Edited August 20, 2023 by vincec

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah that play is awful lol. A textbook case of looking at the rush instead of looking at the routes. If I'm going to try and excuse it, I would guess that before the game it was drilled into Josh's head "don't get hit don't get hit don't get hit" a million times so when he sees a flash of TJ Watt making a spin move he instinctually went into escape mode. Josh is not afraid of contact. I know he has the cajones to stand in the pocket. He just has to trust his OL will hold up and not be thinking about escape as soon as the ball is snapped.

Bingo.  We have seen Allen stand in and take nasty hits time after time while delivering a perfect strike.  Obviously he was told by McD that in the preseason he is to bail the moment he feels pressure.  And for the record on that play Allen came pretty close to be sandwiched between the two end rushers.

 

 

 

 

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Bingo.  We have seen Allen stand in and take nasty hits time after time while delivering a perfect strike.  Obviously he was told by McD that in the preseason he is to bail the moment he feels pressure.  And for the record on that play Allen came pretty close to be sandwiched between the two end rushers.

 

Just saw this clip from the endzone angle which shows exactly why Josh tried to run away:

 

TJ Watt beats Brown on the spin move and appears to be coming right at Josh with a full head of steam. It's at that moment that Josh decided to escape.

 

What Josh didn't expect, and what he will learn, is that Torrence is already WAY ahead of most rookie offensive linemen and made a great cerebral play coming off his double block and helping Brown trap Watt. This is honestly super impressive from Torrence from a physical and a mental standpoint. Last year the likes of Bates and Saffold wouldn't have made this play.

 

If Allen can trust his IOL to make plays like this on the regular he will stand in the pocket and deliver.

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Just saw this clip from the endzone angle which shows exactly why Josh tried to run away:

 

TJ Watt beats Brown on the spin move and appears to be coming right at Josh with a full head of steam. It's at that moment that Josh decided to escape.

 

What Josh didn't expect, and what he will learn, is that Torrence is already WAY ahead of most rookie offensive linemen and made a great cerebral play coming off his double block and helping Brown trap Watt. This is honestly super impressive from Torrence from a physical and a mental standpoint. Last year the likes of Bates and Saffold wouldn't have made this play.

 

If Allen can trust his IOL to make plays like this on the regular he will stand in the pocket and deliver.

 

I have a feeling the kids going to be some kind of special.