The Big Sweaties Report, Preseason Week 2 vs Steelers 8/19/23

[Brand J]

16 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

When you want the beef up front it does not matter.  They can always throw to the eligible player.   Doyle caught a td pass from that position.  We don’t agree about needing a blocking te.  

And that is okay.

[BigPappaPump]

  Nice post. Made me go back & rewatch most of the game. Brown definitely wasn’t as bad as I first thought but Dawkins really struggled in my opinion. Both starting guards played well, but as much as I like Morse, he’s average at best. Tackle depth worries me but some of our younger guys had good moments against their 2nd & 3rd string. It’s early, so I’m going to be optimistic about our line. I personally have no problem kicking the tires on Jason Peters. Sure he’s old but if we don’t trust our depth, add him. 
   I may overreact at first but I live in central pa surrounded by arrogant steeler fans. Even though it’s preseason, losing like that to them sucks. Anyway, I know we’re sooo much better than we showed last night! Go Bills!!!

[No_Matter_What]

Amazing post OP. I am rewatching the game with your comments and it makes me understand everything much better.

 

What I took from your summary and my rewatch is that Brown was much much better than we has given originally credit for. He basically blown that one assignment, it was just very visible and took away Josh's best throw.

[Ralonzo]

4 hours ago, NeverOutNick said:

RB Mims and DE Jonathan are a couple other guys I’d love to keep around if it were possible. 

 

Should follow up on this a little. I liked Mims more this game than last, where there was maybe 2 runs where he got what I felt were more yards than a JAG would. Evans has been better at that. I don't think he's showed near as well as Blackshear last year who was cut anyway in favor of Moss. Cook, Murray and likely Harris will be the 3, Evans could be a P/S candidate.

 

Jonathan was a guy who had a great preseason last year, got cut and his film got him signed to the Bears' active roster. He doesn't look as fast or bendy so far this year and he's not holding up against the run at all. He might be a cut-and-resign-till-Von-is-off-PUP candidate at best. I was hoping he'd have upside but looks closer to maxing out than I thought in '22.

[jkeerie]

Eric Wood said on his Twitter feed that he wasn't as down on the oline as many of the fans.  He said when you are used to playing against a 4-3 D it's hard to transition to blocking against a 3-4 unless you game plan.

[John from Riverside]

they’re not getting rid of Bates, nor should they

[Ralonzo]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

they’re not getting rid of Bates, nor should they

 

Would love to have both Bates and Anderson in 2024 if, as we surmise, Morse moves on from the Bills or vice versa. One starts and one is interior primary backup. The question is how to get from here to there with both.

[Ralonzo]

I guess the one "legit" way to float my own thread is to add some content, so...
 
How bad was the DL? Let's have a brew or two tonight and find out.
 
1st series - 50-91-92-56
1st & 10) Handoff Najee. DaQuon stacks up two interior lineman where the run was designed and keeps Milano clean for a short gain.
2nd & 7) Quick throw left flat. Rousseau defeated the tackle to the inside, ball just came out fast. Floyd and Oliver were collapsing the pocket.
1st & 10) Handoff Najee to the same gap as the first snap with the same result. DaQuon is just not having it.
2nd & 7) Pickett bails a noisy but intact pocket and ducks inside Rousseau who went for upfield speed move.
3rd & 7) Pickett complete after stepping up as Rousseau & Oliver get taken upfield and DaQuon stoned with a double team.
1st series - 55-99-98-57
1st & 10) Handoff TD Steelers. Rut roh. 1st snap against the rotational guys goes the distance. That went right over Steeler guard #61 turning Poona Ford out, Settle got buried, Epenesa stymied. Uuuugly.
 
2nd series - 50-92-91-55
1st & 10) Seam throw TD Steelers. DaQuon and Oliver got handled although I think DaQuon got tripped by 61 which went uncalled. Boogie was actually closest to arriving.
 
3rd series - 50-92-91-56
1st & 10) Pass to left flat. Play action as OL down blocks right and Bills go with them.
2nd & 6) Pitch left gets rekt by Bills. Oliver was key on that play, recognized where the play was going, immediately disengaged from guard and was first to arrive, Rousseau mopping up.
3rd & 8) Bills middle blitz from Milano, ball came out just before the pocket collapsed (except for Floyd who got handled by LT) but the refs save the Steelers yet again.
3rd series - 50-91-92-55
1st & 10) Screen right. Oliver got through immediately but whether that was by design, dunno.
1st & 10) Deep shot inc. Bills sent a lot of guys and didn't really get close.
3rd series - 55-99-98-57
2nd & 10) That same handoff over LG. Ford & Settle wreck that hole, Basham grabs the RB trying to bounce right.
3rd & 9) Not a lot of pressure, Ford and Settle got no push. Dump off to RB and it's Basham hustling to make the stop.
 
4th series - 50-99-91-90
1st & 10) Handoff, Settle and Oliver both get penetration and cause a loss.
2nd & 11) Quick throw to TE. Oliver is getting upfield quick, forcing the ball to come out.
3rd & 5) Out route left for the 1st. Settle almost got there with a nice swim.
1st & 10) Sack & FF for Rousseau who the Steelers declined to block for reasons unknown.
2nd & 27) Oliver forces a Trubisky scramble.
3rd & 20) Oliver and Rousseau run a stunt which doesn't work, but Steelers don't convert. Wait, is there a flag? No, no flag. Whew.
 
5th series - 55-99-98-57
1st & 10) Middle dive, after AJE penetration forces it back inside.
2nd & 9) Bit of a delay safety blitz behind AJE, Trubisky makes the correct hot read and delivers an ok gain.
3rd & 4) AJE with a really wide set gives a big lane to throw a slant to convert the 1st.
1st & 10) Handoff over RT, Boogie takes on and stacks a double-team to keep Hamlin clean for the short gain. And another iffy flag.
1st & 10) Same play, same result. Boogie stuffs the double team.
2nd & 9) Trubisky under pressure forcing the early throw and inc. Looked like Dorian on the delay middle blitz forcing that.
3rd & 9) Lawson gets around the edge and flushes Trubisky. Settle draws a holding penalty.
3rd & 19) Bills show no pressure and indeed only rush 3, Boogie playing inside holds the zone. Completion is short.
 
6th series - 90-98-99-57
1st & 10) Another short field made shorter by ref mystery call. Lawson runs around RT this time and flushes QB the other way for a scramble. Lol Cam Lewis trying to blitz.
6th series - 55-99-98-90
2nd & 4) Lousy play action with Settle and Basham both arriving at QB as he turns, Trubisky flings it to area and prays for a flag and because it's Pittsburgh... Ford got buried.
1st & goal) Dive middle, Basham and Ford get penetration, Settle at least holds the line.
2nd & goal) Play action out to the flat inc. Basham running free again.
6th series - 57-99-98-90
3rd & goal) Fade pattern incomplete, they're gonna have to... aw, nevermind it's another flag. Ridiculous. But that one's a penalty. 
1st & goal) Dive LG, Lawson and Settle move the LOS back, loss of 1.
2nd & goal) Refs giving yards, 1st downs, and now time too. Handoff, whole line stands up the OL. Except Ford who gets moved into the EZ by the guard. Loss of 2 though.
3rd & goal) Shotgun, and the patented McD timeout to allow the Steeler O time to figure out what the want to do. And another TD because of it. But that's another rant. Epenesa was ROARING around the edge and just barely didn't get there.
 
7th series - 55-94-98-57
1st & 10) Short field, recurring theme. Handoff but both Basham and Epenesa defeat their block, Basham gets there first for the TFL.
2nd & 11) Ford got loose in the middle, forces a quick throw, refs bail it out again with a PI.
1st & 10) That same run over LG, Basham crashes down from the other end and with Dorian smush the RB. Ford draws a penalty on the OL.
1st & 20) They try running at Basham for the 4th or 5th time and get nothing for the 4th or 5th time. He's having a night.
2nd & 20) Rudolph rolls left, AJE stays home and probably affects the throw that Neal bats down.
3rd & 20) Looks like a containment rush, allow the short throw and force 4th down.
 
8th series - 49-93-61-96
1st & 10) Check down right. Ray and Dale were closest.
1st & 10) Counter handoff, Ray gets buried, Vickers makes the play.
2nd & 11) Middle throw to TE. Interior DL got handled.
3rd & 5) Klein delay blitz, Cline goes upfield, Rudolph goes right between him and Dale.
1st & 10) Handoff middle, Looked like some sort of stunt where Ray crashed down to make the stop.
8th series - 49-61-94-59
2nd & 7) Jet sweep left goes right past Jonathan who's frozen.
8th series - 96-93-94-59
3rd & 3) Jonathan finally shows the chop and bend move to get the edge around the T for the sack, though Vickers had already walked the G to the QB.
 
9th series - 96-61-93-49
1st & 10) Handoff middle is all clogged, RB loses trying to bounce to the sideline.
9th series - 96-94-93-49
2nd & 14) Handoff right. Cline just misses in the backfield as RB cuts inside. Ray flies in from his end on the stop and gets dinged.
9th series - 96-94-93-59
3rd & 7) Bad snap, QB puts it on the ground. T forgets to block Jonathan who separates QB from picking it up, and Cline eventually gets the recovery.
 
10th series - 96-94-93-59
1st & 10) Handoff over RG punches through. Wish I could see who is in with their PIP interview, I assume Broughton.
2nd & 2) Handoff over LG, Vickers pushes through the double-team to force the RB into LB/S.
3rd & 1) Handoff middle, Steelers move 93 and 94 just enough to make it.
1st & 10) Quick out right, nothing to note there when the ball is out in 2 seconds.
2nd & 4) Handoff LG, that was stopped up pretty good by the interior guys.
3rd & 3) Little crosser, Vickers got held big time or would have gotten home. Thanks again zebras for keeping it "fair."
1st & 10) Draw to the middle, 93 and 94 got moved 3-4 yards downfield.
2nd & 6) Same thing, this time they don't get moved.
3rd & 4) Quick out should have been a pick-6.
 
11th series - 96-94-93-59
1st & 10) Pitch wide left, Jonathan and Broughton get in on it.
2nd & 9) Handoff middle, Broughton & Vickers gobble that up.
3rd & 9) Dropback, scramble forced by Broughton mainly, QB doesn't seeing Cline coming by the scenic route from behind for the sack.
 
12th series - who cares
1st & 10 etc) Victory formation.
 
Overall:
- I don't think they're featuring Boogie for a trade, he's earning it. My biggest positive surprise on review this week.
- Settle was also much better this week than last.
- Oliver doesn't always make something happen but he's usually in the area.
- Rousseau gets 3 or 4 instant wins a game and that usually results in big plays (the 17 yard sack and forced fumble).
- In scrub time, Vickers was better than I thought and Cline was kinda lucky.
- Get f'ed refs, over-officious jerks.
 
Tea leaves:
- Poona Ford hasn't really shown me many reasons to have him on the 53.
- Floyd didn't factor in on anything this game. They just ran him wide.
- Epenesa is special like every fifth play, and is just... a liiiitle slow... the other 4.
- Jonathan isn't flashing as many reps as I recall from last year.
 

[Brand J]

I reeaaaaallllllly wish McD would stop calling defensive TOs. His successful stop rate afterwards has to be abysmal. 

[stevewin]

This seems as good a place as any - The Athletic just released an article on Van Denmark

 

https://theathletic.com/4797703/2023/08/22/ryan-van-demark-buffalo-bills-roster-tackle/

 

The net is that he has been unheralded his whole football career - undrafted FA got cut by Colts last year then signed to Bills PS (ironically Colts picking up Luke Tenuta on waivers from Bills, who they subsequently cut, opened up a spot) - and has started to put it together in his 2nd year.  With Shell's retirement and Doyle going down he's getting a lot more opportunity to play both sides and challenge/unseat Ques

 

Quote

“It was hard,” Van Demark said of his first year. “Obviously, like throughout camp, rookie year being undrafted, coming in on P-squad, you know, you’re not really the guy that the coaches are looking at.”

 

Eventually, things began to click for Van Demark, and he was developing a hard-working reputation with some game to go along with it. At 6-foot-6 with nearly 36-inch long arms and outstanding movement skills in athletic testing, he’s the exact type of offensive tackle the Bills have gone for over the last several years.

...

Quote

“It kind of hit me like probably the end of last season, going into OTAs where I was like, ‘OK, this is my year. I’ve got this now,'” he said. “I had a good offseason, and then starting off camp, I was like, ‘Oh yeah, I can do this.’ And just going out there and showing that I took a step up from the undrafted level, and now I can come out here and play.”

...

Quote

Van Demark knows he’s an underdog with a legitimate chance to make a Super Bowl-caliber roster outright this year. And he’s trying to keep it all in perspective.

“I kind of compare it to last year,” he said. “Last year being in Indy, being an undrafted guy, rookie year, there’s a lot of anxiety and your mind’s everywhere.

“Coming out for my second camp, it’s like I can really just focus on football and play. Who really cares about making the team, not making the team, whatever. I’m not really thinking about that. I’m just coming out here and literally trying to be the best version of myself every day. And I think that, like taking a step back and breathing and being like, ‘Who gives a f—? Just play.’ That’s what I’ve been doing every day coming out here.”

 

Oh - and he used to be a baby model

[Ralonzo]

I'm a fan of this article, thanks for posting. With the context from this regarding his experience and history, I feel more like the problems he was having vs the Colts at RT are just a matter of technique and coaching more than anything. We did suspect this in the Big Sweaties info dump in the middle of the game reaction thread there:

 

2nd half:

1st half:

 

[hondo in seattle]

On 8/20/2023 at 4:54 PM, jkeerie said:

Eric Wood said on his Twitter feed that he wasn't as down on the oline as many of the fans.  He said when you are used to playing against a 4-3 D it's hard to transition to blocking against a 3-4 unless you game plan.

 

I don't listen to most commentators but when a legendary Bills lineman talks about the line, I pay attention.  

[Chaos]

 

 

[boyst]

Please don't let this become a political discussion because this is funny 

[Ralonzo]

On 8/20/2023 at 7:54 PM, jkeerie said:

Eric Wood said on his Twitter feed that he wasn't as down on the oline as many of the fans.  He said when you are used to playing against a 4-3 D it's hard to transition to blocking against a 3-4 unless you game plan.

 

I swear the Steelers game-planned to send blitzers at the Bills right side of Torrence & Brown. Those two identified the blitz and picked it up very consistently.