Well that was an absolute crap fest - PostGame thread

[jahnyc]

Did Spector play?  Does not seem that he is in the mix for MLB.  Will he even make the team this year?

[Augie]

37 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Bad luck is what happens when unpreparedness meets adversity.

 

Relying on an old linemen that was fighting for the 3rd string RT position, and Tommy Doyle, who was awful in the little he has played so far, is unpreparedness.

 

Cute, did your grandmother teach you that? Mine used to say stuff like that.

 

It was DEPTH. Nobody has All-Pros at every position and OL talent across the entire league is generally lacking. Should that have seen Shell was on the edge of retirement? IDK, because I was not behind the scenes. Regardless, they will continue to make moves. People who think quality talent is just littered all around and we refuse to address it generally started with a bias. They can’t wait to say “LOOK! I told you so! They are incompetent!” 

 

The fact is, we are one of the best teams in the league. We need help at OT and MLB in particular, but fixing that not as easy as it sounds. 

 

 

[Einstein]

17 minutes ago, Augie said:

Nobody has All-Pros at every position

 

Understandable. But we are not talking about All-Pro quality talent. We don’t even have starting level talent at several of the o-line positions.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

Understandable. But we are not talking about All-Pro quality talent. We don’t even have starting level talent at several of the o-line positions.

 

Ask the fans of ANY team in the NFL and they will tell you where they are thin. Every team has holes. That’s just how it works. Now, how do we find a way to overcome it with player acquisition and scheme to get wins? That is the question. Last year Knox did more blocking than would have been ideal, but we went 13-3. You have to find ways.  

[UKBillFan]

12 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Ask the fans of ANY team in the NFL and they will tell you where they are thin. Every team has holes. That’s just how it works. Now, how do we find a way to overcome it with player acquisition and scheme to get wins? That is the question. Last year Knox did more blocking than would have been ideal, but we went 13-3. You have to find ways.  

 

At this rate, Knox will be joining the OL whilst Kincaid acts as TE.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

At this rate, Knox will be joining the OL whilst Kincaid acts as TE.

I don't think Dawson had aspirations of being a RT when he was drafted.

[UKBillFan]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

I don't think Dawson had aspirations of being a RT when he was drafted.

 

Beggars can't be choosers. Though, in this case, it isn't Dawson begging.

[CountDorkula]

Call a spade a spade. They sucked last night. 
 

“but its preseason”.  guess what. It’s also preseason for the other team too. 
 

the plan we can all agree wasn’t for the Bills to appear completely outmatched for an entire half. 
 

shake it off. Clean up the mental stuff and pray that one of the MLBs and OTs figure it out in time for the season opener. 

[Augie]

2 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

At this rate, Knox will be joining the OL whilst Kincaid acts as TE.

 

I think Know probably has dual citizenship. Knows both secret handshakes and everything. 

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Yup.....watched the whole game

 

How many throws did he make on time at the top of his drop?

 

The 35 yard throw to Gabe, he was on his 2nd or third clutch. Saw it and ripped it. I don't need proof if he sees a guy open, that he can deliver it. I need proof that he doesn't see a guy, he see's a coverage, he can get the ball out on time and in rhythm.  

been watching the Bills for long lol

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

How many throws did he make on time at the top of his drop?

 

The 35 yard throw to Gabe, he was on his 2nd or third clutch. Saw it and ripped it. I don't need proof if he sees a guy open, that he can deliver it. I need proof that he doesn't see a guy, he see's a coverage, he can get the ball out on time and in rhythm.  

At least 4 throws. 

 

Obviously Dorsey isn't going to showcase the quick hitting throws that are likely to make up a big part of the offenses passing game against the Jets in week one.  That you don't understand this is eye opening.

 

 

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

At least 4 throws. 

 

Obviously Dorsey isn't going to showcase the quick hitting throws that are likely to make up a big part of the offenses passing game against the Jets in week one.  That you don't understand this is eye opening.

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

been watching the Bills for long lol

 @CincyBillsFan I mean, given we went a whole year in 2022 hearing why we won't attempt short throws, it's eye opening that you just expect this will change in 2023. Will it be Dorsey that we will blame? Josh's elbow? What will be the reason we can't hit a quick slant this year?

 

@GoBills808 Late in 2021, I presume largely based on a offensive coordinator that designed it to be that way, I saw Josh decimating teams with his reads. The ball was out and out quick. Didn't happen last year. It also just so happens last year was the first year teams stopped allowing Josh the sidelines to do whatever he wanted. Then as the season progressed, they stopped rushing him. Now he has an OC who I presume isn't taking such an emphasis on routes and motion that shows coverages.  Josh isn't getting the ball out at the top of his drop. He's double clutching. The off spring of Ray Charles could see it...it's nearly every pass. 

 

But again, how dare I as part of Bills fandom, blame Josh for even contributing to a minor issue. He is incapable of fault. All we can admit out loud is that sometimes he makes the "silly" mistake and even when that happens, it's really just because he's passionate. It's also not a "bad" mistake. It's "silly". Like a child, because Josh has a youthful exuberance.

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

13 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

 

 @CincyBillsFan I mean, given we went a whole year in 2022 hearing why we won't attempt short throws, it's eye opening that you just expect this will change in 2023. Will it be Dorsey that we will blame? Josh's elbow? What will be the reason we can't hit a quick slant this year?

 

@GoBills808 Late in 2021, I presume largely based on a offensive coordinator that designed it to be that way, I saw Josh decimating teams with his reads. The ball was out and out quick. Didn't happen last year. It also just so happens last year was the first year teams stopped allowing Josh the sidelines to do whatever he wanted. Then as the season progressed, they stopped rushing him. Now he has an OC who I presume isn't taking such an emphasis on routes and motion that shows coverages.  Josh isn't getting the ball out at the top of his drop. He's double clutching. The off spring of Ray Charles could see it...it's nearly every pass. 

 

But again, how dare I as part of Bills fandom, blame Josh for even contributing to a minor issue. He is incapable of fault. All we can admit out loud is that sometimes he makes the "silly" mistake and even when that happens, it's really just because he's passionate. It's also not a "bad" mistake. It's "silly". Like a child, because Josh has a youthful exuberance.

 

 

 

 

Hey it's a free country so go ahead and blame Allen for us losing last nights critically important preseason game.

 

And did you watch the games in 2022?  We threw plenty of short timing passes, particularly in the first half of the season.  My take is that defenses adjusted and we found ourselves lacking the quality play makers at RB & WR (outside of Diggs) to make it work in the face of the adjustments.  For crying out loud we signed Smoke & Beasley OFF THE FREAKING STREET to try to juice the receiving group.

 

So yea with the additions they made in the off season to boost the number & quality of play makers I expect Dorsey & Allen to execute more of the rhythm short passing game with a couple of deadly deep shots thrown in to keep defenses honest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Unforgiven]

6 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Regardless of the final score this game was a blowout.

 

Which got me to thinking…since when?

 

We lost games and have had not such great games, but a blowout?

 

I honestly can’t even remember.  Does it predate even McDermott?

 

Has it been more than 100 regular, pre and post season games since we’ve been spanked?

 

 

 

cinncinati spanked them

[Steptide]

While everything seems to be doom and gloom after last night, a couple bright spots - kinkaid is gonna be awesome. This guy is gonna win us games. Gabe looked awesome. If he can be what we expected last year, he's gonna be an absolute stud this year. Shorter may be a nice red zone threat if he makes the team 

[dollars 2 donuts]

21 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

cinncinati spanked them

 

They didn’t blow them out, though.

 

This was about blowouts not bad losses.

 

a number of examples have been given subsequently.  Most recently the Indy home game. That game was a joke.

 

[GoBills808]

41 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

 

 @CincyBillsFan I mean, given we went a whole year in 2022 hearing why we won't attempt short throws, it's eye opening that you just expect this will change in 2023. Will it be Dorsey that we will blame? Josh's elbow? What will be the reason we can't hit a quick slant this year?

 

@GoBills808 Late in 2021, I presume largely based on a offensive coordinator that designed it to be that way, I saw Josh decimating teams with his reads. The ball was out and out quick. Didn't happen last year. It also just so happens last year was the first year teams stopped allowing Josh the sidelines to do whatever he wanted. Then as the season progressed, they stopped rushing him. Now he has an OC who I presume isn't taking such an emphasis on routes and motion that shows coverages.  Josh isn't getting the ball out at the top of his drop. He's double clutching. The off spring of Ray Charles could see it...it's nearly every pass. 

 

But again, how dare I as part of Bills fandom, blame Josh for even contributing to a minor issue. He is incapable of fault. All we can admit out loud is that sometimes he makes the "silly" mistake and even when that happens, it's really just because he's passionate. It's also not a "bad" mistake. It's "silly". Like a child, because Josh has a youthful exuberance.

 

 

 

 

just misplaced blame imo

 

'missing reads' and 'OC route concepts' really misses the very simple personnel issue that in 2021 we had Emmanuel Sanders and a not yet over the hill Beasley, both of whom are capable second options to Diggs in that defenses must respect the majority of the route tree against them...2022 thrust a miscast Davis into that role

 

that the 2022 offense actually outperformed the 2021 despite lesser personnel is actually a credit to Allen and Dorsey, 'double clutching' notwithstanding

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

The amount of over reaction to a preseason game is comical.  Of course it’s being led by the usual suspects who break out in a sweat of excitement anytime they see something they can be negative about.  
 

This board is in mid season form already of usual doom and gloom

[Mikie2times]

28 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Hey it's a free country so go ahead and blame Allen for us losing last nights critically important preseason game.

 

And did you watch the games in 2022?  We threw plenty of short timing passes, particularly in the first half of the season.  My take is that defenses adjusted and we found ourselves lacking the quality play makers at RB & WR (outside of Diggs) to make it work in the face of the adjustments.  For crying out loud we signed Smoke & Beasley OFF THE FREAKING STREET to try to juice the receiving group.

 

So yea with the additions they made in the off season to boost the number & quality of play makers I expect Dorsey & Allen to execute more of the rhythm short passing game with a couple of deadly deep shots thrown in to keep defenses honest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the problem with most Bills fans and Josh. I'm not blaming Allen. His inability to get plays off on time contributes to areas we already suck in, like pass protection. The problem is multi faceted. It's just everybody on here gives Allen a break on his contributions.  

 

Look at minute 1:41 below. Classic example of what I'm describing. J

 

Josh hits the top of his drop. He has the out route. He is looking at the out route. He pauses. Dawkins is already beat horribly, but again, if he just takes the damn out it doesn't matter. Instead he super man's his way to a completion. Bills fans celebrate his greatness. Problem is he had the out the whole time. A great play would be not having to make a great play. If he has to keep making great plays in that spot he will make great mistakes. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrJiPBXQf10&t=103s

 

As for your theory. Who knows. I have watched every play for over 20 years. Plenty of elite QB's lose talent and keep on being elite. So I'm not inclined to put the emphasis on JUST the WR's or OLINE, as so many here do. Josh is 50% of the issue. Most people can't see it because he creates 90% of the solutions. It is just a dumb preseason game, but what happened in the play above is just an extension of last years Josh.   

[Jerome007]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

Josh hits the top of his drop. He has the out route. He is looking at the out route. He pauses. Dawkins is already beat horribly, but again, if he just takes the damn out it doesn't matter. Instead he super man's his way to a completion.

 

Yes, on THAT play, it is accurate. The out was there all along, and it was Diggs too. But while at it, prove Josh does that all the time.

 

It's always the team's own fans that sees all these mistakes, thinking the players should be perfect, and comparing to other teams' HIGHLIGHTS. As far as I know, even Brady, Brees, Peyton, in their best years, had some INTs, and didn't have over 75% complete rates!