Isabella shows moves, will he make the roster?

[BullBuchanan]

17 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Again, we were talking about Gilliam.  

 

🙄

 

 

In a thread about Isabella. The entire reason Gilliam was brought up here was because of the thought that his roster spot could be used to keep Isabella which isn't going to happen for the reasons above. Gilliam could face competition for his roster spot from other players, but it won't be from anything Isabella does in pre-season football.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

If this organization has the balls to cut the great nephew of the 1972 Olympic gold medal winner in the men's marathon, I am done with them. 🤨

Edited August 19, 2023 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[PBF81]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

Dorsey used him 10 times on offense and Daboll used him 8 times in 2021.  Basically no difference.

 

5 targets 3 catches in 2021.

10 targets 5 catches in 2022. 

 

You can do the math.  

 

Throw in 2020, his rookie season, 7 targets 5 catches total in two years, still less than last year with Dorsey combined.  

 

If you want to toss in his 3 carries for 3 yards in 2021 be my guest, but it merely reinforces my point in this discussion.  

 

All the runs were in blowouts, 35-0 and 40-0.  

 

No gain on 3rd-and-1.

2 Yards on 2nd-and-10.

1 Yard on 3rd-and-2

 

 

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

5 targets 3 catches in 2021.

10 targets 5 catches in 2022. 

 

You can do the math.  

 

Throw in 2020, his rookie season, 7 targets 5 catches total in two years, still less than last year with Dorsey combined.  

 

If you want to toss in his 3 carries for 3 yards in 2021 be my guest, but it merely reinforces my point in this discussion.  

 

All the runs were in blowouts, 35-0 and 40-0.  

 

No gain on 3rd-and-1.

2 Yards on 2nd-and-10.

1 Yard on 3rd-and-2

 

Yeah, it's called being part of "the math." 

[PBF81]

16 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

So when you said that if Isabella makes the roster Sherfield won't, you were not directly inferring a connection between their spots on the roster?

 

You know what, I'm good here. Carry on.

 

No, I was not.  

 

IMO Sherfield is not what Isabella has to beat out.  I do NOT view it as a direct competition.  I didn't elaborate because I specifically didn't feel like dealing with a barrage of out-of-context statements.  

 

I view it as more of a big picture thing.  And who knows, maybe they stock 7 WRs and both make it, I have no idea.  I'm not in charge.  

 

 

[PBF81]

11 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

In a thread about Isabella. The entire reason Gilliam was brought up here was because of the thought that his roster spot could be used to keep Isabella which isn't going to happen for the reasons above. Gilliam could face competition for his roster spot from other players, but it won't be from anything Isabella does in pre-season football.

 

I didn't say it did.  Feel free to take that up with anyone that did.  Not sure why you're putting those words in my mouth.  

 

Someone brought up Gilliam and there was a side conversation.   I've been shagging overlapping non-related posts on crossover from my discussion, largely with Gunner.  

 

Feel free to look back at ALL of my posts on the topic and it'll clear MOs up for you.  

 

My point on Gilliam is that IMO, again, IMO, they can easily get his contributions from others on the roster in different positions and do away with the FB altogether.  He faces zero competition if we're going to retain a FB.  

 

At the same time, I have to think that if we are going to keep one, at $2M he's expendable, worse than expendable.  He'd either come back at something more akin to vet minimum or there will be a better receiving FB out there, but even that I'm not sure I see a role for on this team as we throw to our RBs less than almost every other team.  

 

 

 

We shall see.  Until then we can bicker and argue but it doesn't matter a heap of cow dung.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

We were talking about Gilliam, not Sherfield.  Stay focused.  

 

 

 

I've been in the pub 4 hours watching proper football I can't look at Gilliam film now. 

 

Equally tomorrow there is a world cup final on. Even I only have so many hours per weekend to dedicate to sport.

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

Yeah, it's called being part of "the math." 

 

It's also apples-to-oranges.  

 

Either way, suppose I acquiesce to that, let's get back to my original point.  He adds nothing to our offense being good.  I'll start by submitting those three carries that you're splitting hairs over as evidence on top of the non-existent "you've gotta watch the games" evidence that we're being told to trust.  Don't trust any of the professional review sites though that specialize in that, no, just random opinions here instead.  LOL  

 

Honestly, I have no idea why anyone thinks that Gilliam is anything but JAG at FB.  Am I entitled to hold that viewpoint?   Just checking.  

 

 

[Chaos]

13 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

Honestly, I have no idea why anyone thinks that Gilliam is anything but JAG at FB.  Am I entitled to hold that viewpoint?   Just checking.

Yes

[billsfan89]

I just have a feeling the Bills will carry Isabella on the roster. I think he knows this is his last chance to make an NFL roster and he is putting everything he has into it and thus far it is showing. I also think the Hines injury has opened up a need for a returner which is something he seemingly excels at. He is still fairly young and maybe has learned from his four years in the league. If not I do think that if his strong per-season/camp performance continues he will continue his NFL career as he will be on a teams PS.

[Billl]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

IMO they're trying to pump up his value in camp and practice for a trade.  Sure, I could be 100% wrong.  Time will tell.  It's purely opinion

Why on earth would anyone trade for a guy they could have had for free?

[Doc]

41 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

It's also apples-to-oranges.  

 

Either way, suppose I acquiesce to that, let's get back to my original point.  He adds nothing to our offense being good.  I'll start by submitting those three carries that you're splitting hairs over as evidence on top of the non-existent "you've gotta watch the games" evidence that we're being told to trust.  Don't trust any of the professional review sites though that specialize in that, no, just random opinions here instead.  LOL  

 

Honestly, I have no idea why anyone thinks that Gilliam is anything but JAG at FB.  Am I entitled to hold that viewpoint?   Just checking. 

 

I'm not the one saying "you gotta watch the games" just saying that if Gilliam were cut, the Giants would pick him up, just like Daboll has done with probably a dozen ex-Bills players.  Why you're choosing to die on that hill I don't know.

 

But out of curiosity, what "professional review sites" are saying that Reggie Gilliam isn't worth a roster spot?

[GunnerBill]

46 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

It's also apples-to-oranges.  

 

Either way, suppose I acquiesce to that, let's get back to my original point.  He adds nothing to our offense being good.  I'll start by submitting those three carries that you're splitting hairs over as evidence on top of the non-existent "you've gotta watch the games" evidence that we're being told to trust.  Don't trust any of the professional review sites though that specialize in that, no, just random opinions here instead.  LOL  

 

Honestly, I have no idea why anyone thinks that Gilliam is anything but JAG at FB.  Am I entitled to hold that viewpoint?   Just checking.  

 

 

 

He is a JAG a full back. That isn't the point in dispute. He is an average full back. The point in dispute is his overall contribution. He is an average full back, an average blocking tight end, an average H-back and a good (and versatile) special teamer. The point is that he is 3 players in one. And while you can find better full backs and blockers than him finding someone who can wrap up those multiple functions in a single roster spot better than him is really difficult. I can't think of anyone else. But if people want to suggest names to me I am willing to consider. 

 

And the initial argument, where this started, was cut Gilliam and carry 7 receivers if you need to. Show me the team in the NFL that carries zero full backs and zero blocking tight ends. Cos that would be the Bills if they ditch Gilliam. I'll hang up and listen. 

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

No, I was not.  

 

IMO Sherfield is not what Isabella has to beat out.  I do NOT view it as a direct competition.  I didn't elaborate because I specifically didn't feel like dealing with a barrage of out-of-context statements.  

 

I view it as more of a big picture thing.  And who knows, maybe they stock 7 WRs and both make it, I have no idea.  I'm not in charge.  

 

You have no idea. 

 

That bit is definitely true. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

He is a JAG a full back. That isn't the point in dispute. He is an average full back. The point in dispute is his overall contribution. He is an average full back, an average blocking tight end, an average H-back and a good (and versatile) special teamer. The point is that he is 3 players in one. And while you can find better full backs and blockers than him finding someone who can wrap up those multiple functions in a single roster spot better than him is really difficult. I can't think of anyone else. But if people want to suggest names to me I am willing to consider. 

 

And the initial argument, where this started, was cut Gilliam and carry 7 receivers if you need to. Show me the team in the NFL that carries zero full backs and zero blocking tight ends. Cos that would be the Bills if they ditch Gilliam. I'll hang up and listen. 

 

You have no idea. 

 

That bit is definitely true. 

 

I asked you for the evidence that you had.  You threw out the two KC games where he made, and I quote, a "big impact."  I demonstrated that he made no impact on any of the scoring plays and on none of the plays that got a vast majority of yards in that first game.  None whatsoever.  

 

If you think I'm wrong, please feel free to watch those handful of plays on the 20-minute or so highlight reel and correct me.  But simply saying you said so in Simon-Says fashion isn't answering the mail on this one.  

 

You've chided me for saying things that "aren't true," and in at least one instance, again, I admitted to playing fast and loose and agreed.  You can either provide the evidence, whenever you have time, or do the same, I'd appreciate it either way.  I'm perfectly open to seeing where Gilliam contributed and made a "big impact," your words, and on more than a handful of plays as you suggest.  But what I won't do is be told I don't know what I'm talking about by someone that provides absolutely no evidence to the contrary in this case.  You've been pretty good at providing information to back yourself up, not so in this case.  

 

As you were.  This shouldn't be a popularity contest, it's a discussion, you may very well be right, but if you're going to call me out for being wrong, it'd be nice to get some evidence besides you say so.  Gilliam may be the best FB in the history of the game that doesn't catch or run.  But "big impact" entails doing something on the plays that provide the scoring and scoring drives.  

 

Enjoy your beers & pubfare!!  Go Bills!!!  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

I asked you for the evidence that you had.  You threw out the two KC games where he made, and I quote, a "big impact."  I demonstrated that he made no impact on any of the scoring plays and on none of the plays that got a vast majority of yards in that first game.  None whatsoever.  

 

If you think I'm wrong, please feel free to watch those handful of plays on the 20-minute or so highlight reel and correct me.  But simply saying you said so in Simon-Says fashion isn't answering the mail on this one.  

 

You've chided me for saying things that "aren't true," and in at least one instance, again, I admitted to playing fast and loose and agreed.  You can either provide the evidence, whenever you have time, or do the same, I'd appreciate it either way.  I'm perfectly open to seeing where Gilliam contributed and made a "big impact," your words, and on more than a handful of plays as you suggest.  But what I won't do is be told I don't know what I'm talking about by someone that provides absolutely no evidence to the contrary in this case.  You've been pretty good at providing information to back yourself up, not so in this case.  

 

As you were.  This shouldn't be a popularity contest, it's a discussion, you may very well be right, but if you're going to call me out for being wrong, it'd be nice to get some evidence besides you say so.  Gilliam may be the best FB in the history of the game that doesn't catch or run.  But "big impact" entails doing something on the plays that provide the scoring and scoring drives.  

 

Enjoy your beers & pubfare!!  Go Bills!!!  

 

 

 

I will prove you wrong as soon as I get time. Don't worry.

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

Why on earth would anyone trade for a guy they could have had for free?

 

I'm not saying they'll be successful, just saying that's what happens.  Common sense.  

 

A team interested may not be able to get him for free, A, and B, even if a player hits the market doesn't mean that a team is guaranteed to get him.  A trade accomplishes that.  

 

But touche`, I have no idea why anyone would trade for Sherfield.  WRs like that are a dime a dozen in the NFL.  I suppose if they put some turd polish on him.  

 

We've been through this same exercise every season.  We're told how great so many WRs are going to be that come and go here.  It's dizzying.  LOL  

 

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

I'm not the one saying "you gotta watch the games" just saying that if Gilliam were cut, the Giants would pick him up, just like Daboll has done with probably a dozen ex-Bills players.  Why you're choosing to die on that hill I don't know.

 

But out of curiosity, what "professional review sites" are saying that Reggie Gilliam isn't worth a roster spot?

 

You're jumping in on arguments that you don't have the context on.  By implication you're supporting that angle.  

 

Either way, who cares, no worries, enjoy the game.   Let's call it a truce here. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I will prove you wrong as soon as I get time. Don't worry.

 

I would sincerely appreciate that.  I'm always open to learning.  Thanks!  

 

I'll hold you to that.   LOL  

 

Also, in the event that Gilliam is cut, no need.  You may want to wait just in case.  It's more or less moot at that point.  

 

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by PBF81

[eme123]

Small

[Warriorspikes51]

Looks like he’s somewhere between WR5 - WR7 at the moment based on him not playing with Josh Allen

[That's No Moon]

5 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

In a thread about Isabella. The entire reason Gilliam was brought up here was because of the thought that his roster spot could be used to keep Isabella which isn't going to happen for the reasons above. Gilliam could face competition for his roster spot from other players, but it won't be from anything Isabella does in pre-season football.

IN the midst of a 6 beer evening. Neither of them matter. At all. The season won't be decided by either of them. The GM and coaches can't identify linemen on either side of the ball. They are real good at throwing assets at it but they couldn't see a good lineman if their lives depended upon it. To the end, who the hell cares about Andy Isabella or Reggie friggin Gilliam?

[Roundybout]

27 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Looks like he’s somewhere between WR5 - WR7 at the moment based on him not playing with Josh Allen

He was returning kicks with the 1s though