Isabella shows moves, will he make the roster?

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Through the years?  Two years?   Well, OK.  

 

OK, so you went and found two games in which he had his 1st and 4th highest snap counts.  Taking your advice, I reviewed 20 minute highlight video.  

 

2021:  

 

On Allen's first designed run Sing blocked for him, Gilliam not on the field.  

Second play, in motion, dropped into the flat, didn't even directly draw a defender.  Inconsequential on that play.  

Third play, Allen run, Gilliam not on the field. 

Fourth play, designed trick play, Allen run for a TD, Gilliam not on the field. 

Fifth play, Gilliam entirely against the grain, whiffing on the block inconsequentially.  

Next relevant play, Moss with about a 10-yard run, Gilliam not on the field. 

Next three plays big pass plays, last one for a TD.  Gilliam not on the field. 

Huge pass play to Diggs deep, Gilliam not on the field.  

Designed screen to Moss for 15, Gilliam not on the field. 

Next play, deep to Knox for a 53 TD, Gilliam not on the field. 

Allen on what appears to be a designed run for 5, Gilliam not on the field.  

Gilliam lined up as TE, blocks, sheds, wide open in the flat, Allen to Knox deep for 41.  

Allen 11-yard pass to Sanders, Gilliam not on the field.  

Allen to Beasley for 5, Gilliam not on the field.  

Allen scrambles for 4 and a 1st, Gilliam not on the field. 

Screen to Moss for 16, Gilliam not on the field.  

Allen to Davis for 16 and another 1st, Gilliam not on the field.  

Designed UTM run by Allen for 12, Gilliam not on the field.  

Tight formation, Allen to Sanders for an 8-yard TD, Gilliam not on the field.  

 

I suspect that a third of Gilliam's snaps were on our last drive clearly just trying to kill the clock and insurmountably up at that point.  

 

Either way, on the entire highlight video Gilliam was on the field for only three plays, inconsequential on every single one, as in could have been any JAG that did what he did.  He clearly wasn't getting any particular respect from Reid's D.  

 

I'm not sure it's worthe reviewing the 2022 game, but maybe I will.  Either way, if he was somehow instrumental it wasn't clear.  Either way, he certainly didn't have much of an impact much less a "big impact" as you stated.  You did say in both games, so I'm not sure there's any sense in my reviewing the other one at this point.  

 

You've called me out for posting more opinionated stuff than facts, and I've even acquiesced, such as when I was playing a little fast and loose with history going back to 2017-2020 re: our analysis of the LBs.  I'm going to suggest the same here, cordially of course.  On plays where the vast majority of our yards and all scores came from, Gilliam had exactly zero impact much less any "big impact."  

 

 

 

My friendly wager offer was regarding Gilliam not making the 53.  We're on for that.  

 

My take on Sherfield is clearly linked to if Isabella makes the 53.  If he does, then yes, friendly wager that Sherfield is the one he beats out.  I'm not sure that we have another WR on the team that would take Sherfield's place after Isabella though.  If Isabella is cut, I fully expect Shefield to be on the 53.  

 

 

 

Sherfield will be on the roster.

[JaCrispy]

I hope Andy makes it…I’m not a fan of the Shorter pick- suspect hands and zero separation…

[SCBills]

21 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I hope Andy makes it…I’m not a fan of the Shorter pick- suspect hands and zero separation…

It seems to me that one of Shorter or Shavers would make it to the PS, if not both, should we choose to cut him.  
 

They seem quite similar, imo.  Big bodied receivers with some speed.  Shorter bigger, Shavers faster.  Both were big time recruits that never really planned out in college. 
 

Id love to develop both given Gabe’s contract status and us not exactly having a ton of money next year.. but Isabella is certainly intriguing.. especially if Diggs, Davis and Kincaid are clearing out underneath routes. 

[LEBills]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If Isabella wins the returner job (not sure he will, he has never been a dynamic returner really) then I think there is a world in which it is Shakir that is in trouble if they like Shorter on coverage teams. I just wonder whether you can afford to hold a #5 wide receiver who doesn't do anything on special teams? We know Sherfield is going to play some teams, so maybe you can and Shorter misses out but it gets dicey for Shakir if someone other than Harty wins that return job....

It certainly will be interesting.
 

We lost Kumerow, Taiwan Jones and Jaquan Johnson and Dodson or Bernard will not be able to be special teamers if they are the starting MLB. To backfill those teams snap, it will likely be Dorian Williams, Damar, Sherfield some (tho his offensive role may be too great), and then WR6. 
 

So I think you are right that Isabella is basically competing for the WR5 (non-gunner) spot with Shakir. He would need to be the best PR on the roster to unseat Shakir in that instance. I think it is the PS for Isabella as insurance for any Harty injury assuming he isn’t picked up elsewhere. 

[PBF81]

44 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I said earlier if Isabella makes the team, it guarantees there’ll be at least one surprise cut. The numbers make it so. However, that cut won’t come at the expense of Sherfield. It’s not my conversation, so sorry for jumping in here, but I’ll take you up on that wager if you’d like, $50 or $100. 

 

Friendly wager only on this one.  If Isabella makes the team, Sherfield will not.  Also, if I did that it would be a charity wager, to the winner's choice of charity.  

 

I don't like to wager on things that are subjective.  We have no idea what's going through the coaches' minds, I don't presume to know either.  I'm simply looking at historical performance, or in this case, lack thereof, and connecting the dots.  

 

And no problem to jumping in, I appreciate your adding that context, otherwise, as you imply, things get complicated and unmanageable. in a thread very quickly.  

 

Isabella may not even make the team, and it's moot.  

 

 

47 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

It was already mentioned but he gives you high level ST play and blocking TE depth. You'd have to carry multiple players that would waste roster spots and cost more overall than one of him.

 

3 Combined, 2 solo tackles on STs, 8 total, 5 solo in three seasons, is a "high level ST play" now?  

 

Either my standars are way too high or I'm missing something.  

 

We don't need TE blocking depth, and I even disagree there.  Gunner pointed out as one of Gilliams stronger games the two regular season KC games, I just proved that he contributed nothing significant in the 2021 KC game on plays where we scored or otherwise responsible for the vast majority of our yards.  

 

We'll see, no sense in arguring this anymore.  It'll be what it'll be.  We have no control over any of it, it's just discussion.   

 

 

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Sherfield will be on the roster.

 

We were talking about Gilliam, not Sherfield.  Stay focused.  

 

 

[PBF81]

41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Sherfield will be on the roster.

 

Likely, yes, I've never suggested otherwise, UNLESS, and if and only if, Isabella gets cut.  

 

Can we wait and see, or do we already have to decide what the coaches are going to do?  Just checking.  LOL 

 

 

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

We have no idea what's going through the coaches' minds, I don't presume to know either.

 

We know exactly what's going through the coaches' minds. Sherfield was taken off the field with the primary starters like Davis and Kincaid and much of the starting OL. That tells you how highly they think of him. As of right now he is locked into what the Bills call WR4, the same role Davis had as a rookie. He'll split time in the slot and outside and he'll be asked to block quite frequently.

 

Isabella will have a completely different role from Sherfield if he makes the team. I have no clue why you think their roster spots are connected in any way.

 

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

IMO they're trying to pump up his value in camp and practice for a trade.

 

They're pumping up his trade value by taking him off the field after two series in which he got one stupid target? You're on your own with this one, man.

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by HappyDays

[BullBuchanan]

17 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

3 Combined, 2 solo tackles on STs, 8 total, 5 solo in three seasons, is a "high level ST play" now?  

 

Either my standars are way too high or I'm missing something.  

 

We don't need TE blocking depth, and I even disagree there.  Gunner pointed out as one of Gilliams stronger games the two regular season KC games, I just proved that he contributed nothing significant in the 2021 KC game on plays where we scored or otherwise responsible for the vast majority of our yards.  

 

We'll see, no sense in arguring this anymore.  It'll be what it'll be.  We have no control over any of it, it's just discussion.   

 

 

 

We were talking about Gilliam, not Sherfield.  Stay focused.  

 

 

He's not a gunner. There are a lot of jobs on special teams. Tackling is only part of the job.

You're getting way too invested in a bottom of the depth chart fringe NFL talent that has washed out of two teams in desperate need for WR help. IF he were to even make the roster, he would likely be inactive for every single game of the season unless there were injuries. Do you get a commission if that happens? If not, I don't see how it benefits anyone but him. He brings nothing to the table that is special and can be replaced at will by any random player on the street.

He's this year's Martin Nance except he's already proven that he sucks.

Edited August 19, 2023 by BullBuchanan

[CEN-CAL17]

6 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Based on last game alone, I find it hard to believe he’s no the starting in the slot come week one.  That said, it was one game and I have literally zero clue what’s happened in practice.

There’s no telling what the FO and Beane will do…. I remember watching the Senior Bowl in I think 2019? Isabella and Deebo Samuel were the 2 major standouts I saw that week in practice, in person.

 

So far I’m not super impressed with Harty…. But obviously we have another couple weeks but I’m watching Harty. Personally top to bottom I feel Isabella is a better WR over Harty. And sometimes I feel this team put too much value on STs, Harty being a better Return man may be the difference. But yet slot is more important.

[That's No Moon]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

He's a rookie.  What the ...  

And he's been highly touted for at least 5 years now, 4 of those 5 years haven't lived up to the billing. At some point really soon he needs to do something or he's just another overhyped high school kid who didn't pan out.

[That's No Moon]

2 hours ago, PBF81 said:

So in your world the quality of a QB's passing game has little to do with how well WRs perform.  Alright, noted.  

And you've just completed your circular argument. Justin Shorter underperformed at Florida because of Anthony Richardson, but Anthony Richardson also underperformed because of Justin Shorter. Got it.

[machine gun kelly]

6 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Same here.  What seems to distinguish him from prior WR preseason heroes is his work ethic - by all accounts he’s working his tail off and is “all ball,” he sounds like a Matt Milano ascetic type and McBeane LOVES those.  He has a real shot if he flashes tonight. 

That and the previous camp darlings were either 7th RD picks or I drafted free agents.  He’s a previous 2nd rounder.

 

He certainly can make the team as they’ll keep 6.

 

My guess it will be the following:

 

Diggs

Davis

Sherfield

Harty

Isabella

and whichever taller guy shows out as we had some flashes last week.

 

PS

Shakir-  unles he has a great rest of camp, he may get placed in the PS.  We’ll see.  Pretty much all of us have been wrong on this board at times.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, SCBills said:

I don’t think anyone is really expecting Shorter to show a ton this year.  
 

He’s an incredibly raw prospect with size and speed.  
 

My only worry with cutting Shakir or Shorter is that we would only have Diggs, Harty and one of those two under contract for next year at WR.  
 

We’d be looking at half of our WR room

and 70% of our DL rotation not under contract past this season. 
 

Ultimately I trust Beane to figure it out, but I’m not sure we want to create more holes than necessary, knowing that next year we have a lot of one year deal guys and expiring contracts coming up … all the while entering the season over the cap. 

 

What I'm getting at is there is no need to put Shorter on the roster.  He can easily be placed on the PS and then given a multi-year contract if called up.

 

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

I just pointed out that Daboll used him less than Dorsey did.  

 

3 carries in two seasons?  For a 3 yards?  

 

Zero targets or catches?  

 

As pointed out, Gilliam wasn't in on a single rushing TD play last season.  So your argument is that he was in on a bunch of them under Daboll?  
 

I'll pose the same question to you that I posed to Gunner, where's the actual evidence that he's more than JAG?  

 

Daboll's going to cut another spot and install a FB when he didn't bother to even try one out this season and didn't use one last year?  I suppose it's possible, but again, why is everyone so high on Gilliam?  He clearly contributes little to scoring, is only in on every sixth offensive play.  He ranked 17th in snaps taken offensively.  Immediately behind him were Hart and Crowder, the latter of which saw only a handful of games.  

 

IDK, maybe you're right, if we even cut him, he'll end up on the Giants.  I'm simply questioning the logic other than Daboll picking up every offensive player that we might release that played under him here. 

 

Dorsey used him 10 times on offense and Daboll used him 8 times in 2021.  Basically no difference.

 

Meanwhile it's not like the Giants have a ton of talent on offense at the skill positions where it would be a matter of him versus some talented player.  Basically it's Waller and Hyatt.  Oh and of course Hodgins...

Edited August 19, 2023 by Doc

[PBF81]

37 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Isabella will have a completely different role from Sherfield if he makes the team. I have no clue why you think their roster spots are connected in any way.

 

 

If you want to have a civil discussion then please stop putting words in mouth.  I never said that, in fact I distinctly recall not specifying.  

 

I know what I think and that's not it thank you.  

 

 

32 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

He's not a gunner. There are a lot of jobs on special teams. Tackling is only part of the job.

You're getting way too invested in a bottom of the depth chart fringe NFL talent that has washed out of two teams in desperate need for WR help. IF he were to even make the roster, he would likely be inactive for every single game of the season unless there were injuries. Do you get a commission if that happens? If not, I don't see how it benefits anyone but him. He brings nothing to the table that is special and can be replaced at will by any random player on the street.

He's this year's Martin Nance except he's already proven that he sucks.

 

Again, we were talking about Gilliam.  

 

🙄

 

 

[Warriorspikes51]

Yes. I’d like to see him with Josh Allen tonight. He could be Cole Beasley with 4.3 speed in this offense.  Kincaid and him both in the slot could create tons of problems.  Rotating in Sherfield and Harty.

 

Golden.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Pretty much all of us have been wrong on this board at times.

Not necessarily so.  We all agreed that HOUSE conveniently misplaces his wallet.

[PBF81]

10 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

And you've just completed your circular argument. Justin Shorter underperformed at Florida because of Anthony Richardson, but Anthony Richardson also underperformed because of Justin Shorter. Got it.

 

The only thing I've gotten is that you appear to be so eager to win an argument that you've thrown all reason and common sense to the for winds.  LOL

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

53 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

We were talking about Gilliam, not Sherfield.  Stay focused. 

Who's on first.  What's on second.

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

If you want to have a civil discussion then please stop putting words in mouth.  I never said that, in fact I distinctly recall not specifying.  

 

So when you said that if Isabella makes the roster Sherfield won't, you were not directly inferring a connection between their spots on the roster?

 

You know what, I'm good here. Carry on.

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by HappyDays

[Dr. Who]

17 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

That and the previous camp darlings were either 7th RD picks or I drafted free agents.  He’s a previous 2nd rounder.

 

He certainly can make the team as they’ll keep 6.

 

My guess it will be the following:

 

Diggs

Davis

Sherfield

Harty

Isabella

and whichever taller guy shows out as we had some flashes last week.

 

PS

Shakir-  unles he has a great rest of camp, he may get placed in the PS.  We’ll see.  Pretty much all of us have been wrong on this board at times.

Top four are locks. I think you are correct that they will want to keep another bigger receiver with either Shorter or Shavers most likely. In fact, Patmon and KeeSean Johnson have had good camps. Patmon is also 6'4", though I suppose he is a PS squad possibility only.

 

Some folks are talking about Isabella taking Harty's spot. Not with the FA commitment made to Harty. Then some think they try and stash Isabella on the PS and bring him in when Harty gets hurt, which is his penchant. I dunno, I have a feeling Josh has developed quick chemistry with Isabella. Today should be illuminating. Let's see if Isabella is featured when Josh plays his one quarter plus.

 

In any event, I would agree that it is more likely the battle is between Isabella and Shakir. I still think it tilts towards Shakir as of this moment, but that could change and I am actually rooting for Isabella. If Shakir loses out, I think they try to trade him. If you place him on the PS, someone will pick him up thinking he is worth a flier.