Patrick Queen: Would you trade a late rounder for him?

[John from Riverside]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

No. Draft one or sign a cheap vet next year. They made their bed this year. Don’t double the problem by trading assets and spending big cap.

There are a lot of players that are about to become available all at once
 

Maybe they’re?

[CSBill]

9 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

I still think AJ Klein is under appreciated.

 

the guy has his limitations. But he hits like a hammer and is a vicious blitzing player when given the chance

 

In effect, Klein is the experienced Middle Linebacker for which the Bills made a late-camp trade. A star? No. But an available and serviceable ML who the Bills know what they are getting and who knows the system well enough, yes! McDermott trusts his veteran players, I can't see him going outside the organization this late in the process.

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think they would privately admit now that they wish they'd done more in the spring at MLB..

 

They surely didn't go into this thinking there was zero possibility that MLB would be a weak point this season. They're paid millions to assess every situation from all angles.

 

They assessed it and decided they wanted to see if they had something serviceable or more in Tyrel Dodson and Terrell Bernard this season. They surely knew then and probably more than ever know now, they're going to take their lumps.

 

As Beane said in a Presser this offseason, these players won't get better without experience and they need to play to get that experience. This season is about finding out if they have something in Dodson or Bernard or not when it comes to the MLB position.

 

In the meantime, they must feel that between what will be alongside them in Milano, the D-Line in front of them, and the Secondary alongside and behind them - that they can coach around them to help them out and still have a successful D regardless of how they play.

 

If they don't perform well enough, they'll be replaced next season. But it's clear they didn't think having a stud MLB is going to make or break this team and this Defense this season. 

 

They had all the opportunity to do more and made a conscious effort to roll with what they have. I don't think an injured hammy to Bernard (who's already working on the side) and a freakout in Practice with Dodson is going to make them abandon their plan.

 

Yes, he said there was concern. But I read that more as him trying to humble and/or light a fire under these guys then the idea that they're going to look elsewhere this late in the game.

 

And as I said in a previous post, anyone who will be available via a cut or a trade option is not going to represent such a talent upgrade that McDermott would value them over guys who had the full offseason of Training and practicing with the team under their belt. Patrick Queen included.

Edited August 18, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

They surely didn't go into this thinking there was zero possibility that MLB would be a weak point this season. They're paid millions to assess every situation from all angles.

 

They assessed it and decided they wanted to see if they had something serviceable or more in Tyrel Dodson and Terrell Bernard this season. They surely knew then and probably more than ever know now, they're going to take their lumps.

 

As Beane said in a Presser this offseason, these players won't get better without experience and they need to play to get that experience. This season is about finding out if they have something in Dodson or Bernard or not when it comes to the MLB position.

 

In the meantime, they must feel that between what will be alongside them in Milano, the D-Line in front of them, and the Secondary alongside and behind them - that they can coach around them to help them out and still have a successful D regardless of how they play.

 

If they don't perform well enough, they'll be replaced next season. But it's clear they didn't think having a stud MLB is going to make or break this team and this Defense this season. 

 

They had all the opportunity to do more and made a conscious effort to roll with what they have. I don't think an injured hammy to Bernard (who's already working on the side) and a freakout in Practice with Dodson is going to make them abandon their plan.

 

Yes, he said there was concern. But I read that more as him trying to humble and/or light a fire under these guys then the idea that they're going to look elsewhere this late in the game.

 

And as I said in a previous post, anyone who will be available via a cut or a trade option is not going to represent such a talent upgrade that McDermott would value them over guys who had the full offseason of Training and practicing with the team under their belt. Patrick Queen included.

 

I think you are under estimating how worried they will be at this point. I don't think McDermott was trying to light a fire. I think he knows what they have seen so far hasn't been good enough. When McDermott is that candid on a situation it is usually a very clear signal.

 

I still agree with you that they are very unlikely to bring someone else in at this stage. Their solutions are going to have to be internal. But I think the things they had pretty much ruled out 3 or 4 weeks ago are likely going to be back on the table much quicker than they imagined ie. AJ as their starter (he didn't take a single first team snap in the first 10 days of camp) and / or some sort of scheme adjustment to allow Milano to play as the nominal MIKE and let Williams start alongside. 

 

I don't think this regime is prone to panic. But I think on the MLB they are probably pretty close to it at this stage. I think they expected to be further ahead than they are at this point of the pre-season.

Edited August 18, 2023 by GunnerBill

[NoSaint]

13 hours ago, Rigotz said:

With Bernard injured, Dodson having a rough pre-season week 1 (and swinging his helmet at his own team), and McDermott expressing concern today … let’s explore one potential option that might be available.

 

This write up explains why Queen might be on the trade block: https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/07/trade-candidate-ravens-lb-patrick-queen

- Roquon Smith just became highest paid ILB in NFL.

- Ravens drafted Trenton Simpson in the 3rd round of this year’s draft.

- Queen is in the last year of his rookie contract ($3.8M).

- Queen is rumored to want a new contract, coming off the best year of his career (117 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 INTs, 14 QB hits).

 

To be clear, this is not a discussion of whether he is an elite player or worth a large second contract. If he’s a 1 year rental with possible upside, would you trade a late round pick for him? If so, what round? 

why are the ravens doing it for less than a 4(?) ish as a comp pick received after holding good depth for an affordable price all year

[Ethan in Cleveland]

My prediction is at some point in this season Milano and Williams will be the two starting linebackers switching between MLB and OLB. 

They are probably the two best athletes at the position.  

The Bernard pick was so bad and because Beane invested a 3rd round pick he was not going to sign a credible veteran to compete for the job. 

[Beck Water]

16 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

I haven’t watched Queen play in the NFL enough to really form my own opinion, but I have heard him discussed. What was said about him was that he was pretty poor until Smith was acquired lined up next to him. Then his play dramatically improved. That makes me say no. If it was something negligible in trade, then it might be worth kicking the tires. But I doubt that would be the case. 

 

That was my impression.  If Queen were all that and a bag of chips at LB, why would the Ravens have traded a 2nd and 5th for the privilege of signing Smith to a record-setting contract?  But Smith is a 'rising tide' and they say it lifts all boats.

[Dopey]

15 hours ago, NewEra said:

All of your posts are the same.  Sorry. 
 

If McB thought this, then this.

 

This thread isn’t asking if McB would make the trade.  It’s asking us if we would make the trade.

 

mcdermott is CLEARLY concerned.  He has said as much today.  It’s possible that they weren’t very concerned prior to the start of camp….. and now that one guy is hurt and another guy is swinging helmets, that his stance has changed and he’s more concerned now.  It’s a fluid game and process

Helmet gate is being overblown here. Will have no bearing on whether or not he starts. 

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think you are under estimating how worried they will be at this point. I don't think McDermott was trying to light a fire. I think he knows what they have seen so far hasn't been good enough. When McDermott is that candid on a situation it is usually a very clear signal.

 

I still agree with you that they are very unlikely to bring someone else in at this stage. Their solutions are going to have to be internal. But I think the things they had pretty much ruled out 3 or 4 weeks ago are likely going to be back on the table much quicker than they imagined ie. AJ as their starter (he didn't take a single first team snap in the first 10 days of camp) and / or some sort of scheme adjustment to allow Milano to play as the nominal MIKE and let Williams start alongside. 

 

I don't think this regime is prone to panic. But I think on the MLB they are probably pretty close to it at this stage. I think they expected to be further ahead than they are at this point of the pre-season.

 

I dunno.  In the past, McDermott has used his media sessions to fire a "shot across the bows" to send a message to a player or group of players on more than 1 occasion.  How effective "coaching by media interaction" might be, I don't know, but in this instantly-connected media age, I can see it being useful if it becomes clear that what coaches say to the player is getting put through some kind of internal spin and coming out from the player to the media as different.

 

I thought in his comments to Katherine Fitzgerald, Dodson was either  being disingenuous or clueless.  If a player is losing it in practice, and is drawing the attention of his position coach, his head coach, the director of player personnel, then after practice the head trainer and the director of player engagement, I don't think it's "everything is OK".   I think they're concerned.

 

Hopefully this is all pre-emptive concern to nudge things onto the right track before they run too far off and to set a standard at least one player is capable to reach.

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Helmet gate is being overblown here. Will have no bearing on whether or not he starts. 

 

Not "helmet gate" per se, but everything around it

[BarleyNY]

A played I’d look to move a late round pick (or flip late picks) for is Mohamoud Diabate of the Browns. If they cut him (which I do not think they will do), then he won’t make it to the Bills on the waiver wire. He has had a very good preseason in all phases. He seems to process the game well and has not only played the run and pass well, he has been an effective blitzer. He’d certainly have a place on this roster. 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

15 hours ago, ngbills said:

Started every game since day 1. Last year he had 117 tackles / 9 tfl, 2 int and 6 pd, 1 FF, 2 FR, 5 sacks, 14 qb hits, 83.1 qbr against, 7% missed tackle. The numbers stack up pretty well.

 

I would take him for a 3rd and 4th. 

The knock on him is being slow to the point of attack and many of his tackles are 5+ yards down field.  Some times the eye test is more important than a simple stat line.  If he is cut, I'd give him a shot.  I would not waste a draft pick to acquire him.  The 2024 draft is going to be loaded and I expect Beane will want to retain and increase the number of picks available to him.  I get the sense that it is only the fan base that is concerned about the MLB position.

[NewEra]

48 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Helmet gate is being overblown here. Will have no bearing on whether or not he starts. 

Helmet gate has no bearing on whether or not he starts because the only other options are small and injured or are not good enough to compete for the job. 
 

hence the concern.  

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Absolutely. Pull the trigger immediately. Who wouldn’t ? I’d even trade a 2nd or 3rd for him. He’s only 23 and has improved every year. 

[mjt328]

No matter what, the MLB situation is going to be very interesting this season.

 

There weren't a lot of options, but Brandon Beane showed very little interest in signing anybody with starting experience at that position.  He would rather roll with vets like Tyrell Dodson and AJ Klein.  His two draft choices (Terrell Bernard and Dorian Williams) are universally regarded as too small for the middle, and better suited for an outside role.

 

Maybe this coaching staff has a genius plan for the defense, which will go completely against the grain and make Bernard/Williams work in the MLB spot.  That would be great.  Because if that position ends up being a weak-link that costs us games, it's going to get really ugly around here. 

 

[BullBuchanan]

Rashaan Evans is still a FA and I would far prefer him, jarrad Davis, or even Jon Bostic for just a veteran contract

[Saxum]

4 hours ago, mjt328 said:

No matter what, the MLB situation is going to be very interesting this season.

 

There weren't a lot of options, but Brandon Beane showed very little interest in signing anybody with starting experience at that position.  He would rather roll with vets like Tyrell Dodson and AJ Klein.  His two draft choices (Terrell Bernard and Dorian Williams) are universally regarded as too small for the middle, and better suited for an outside role.

 

Maybe this coaching staff has a genius plan for the defense, which will go completely against the grain and make Bernard/Williams work in the MLB spot.  That would be great.  Because if that position ends up being a weak-link that costs us games, it's going to get really ugly around here. 

 

 

This forum would win an ugly contest any day.

[BillsFanForever19]

21 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think you are under estimating how worried they will be at this point. I don't think McDermott was trying to light a fire. I think he knows what they have seen so far hasn't been good enough. When McDermott is that candid on a situation it is usually a very clear signal.

 

I still agree with you that they are very unlikely to bring someone else in at this stage. Their solutions are going to have to be internal. But I think the things they had pretty much ruled out 3 or 4 weeks ago are likely going to be back on the table much quicker than they imagined ie. AJ as their starter (he didn't take a single first team snap in the first 10 days of camp) and / or some sort of scheme adjustment to allow Milano to play as the nominal MIKE and let Williams start alongside. 

 

I don't think this regime is prone to panic. But I think on the MLB they are probably pretty close to it at this stage. I think they expected to be further ahead than they are at this point of the pre-season.

 

I dont doubt that he wishes someone was further along. But as someone above stated, McDermott often uses talking to the media as a way to light a fire under players. 

 

So while he may have a level of concern, I don't think it means they're panicking and would look at making a move at this point. I think it's more likely as you said that they're probably considering keeping and playing Klein.

 

He was re-signed as the break glass option, in my opinion. An average veteran with experience that they can fall back on to be a halfway steady hand, if worse came to worse and neither Dodson or Bernard stepped up or were injured 

 

Again, I don't doubt that they were hoping someone had broken away from the pack at this point and there may be some truth in it. But I also think it was about sending a message.

 

15 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Rashaan Evans is still a FA and I would far prefer him, jarrad Davis, or even Jon Bostic for just a veteran contract

 

Those options were available when they chose to bring back Klein. Most likely for his familiarity. And at their level of play and/or age combined with the fact that those guys would be coming into a complex Defense, being thrown in the fire without Training Camp, there's zero chance they think any of them are any sort of upgrade over who they've had in Camp.

[GunnerBill]

16 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Rashaan Evans is still a FA and I would far prefer him, jarrad Davis, or even Jon Bostic for just a veteran contract

 

Evans has never played in a 4-3. Davis is a Giant and Bostic sucks. He is also mainly a 3-4 guy and wouldn't be an upgrade on Klein. 

47 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

But I also think it was about sending a message.

 

 

I think that is what you HOPE. It is what I hope too. It isn't what I think though. I think after 7 years you can tell from what he says, the tone he says it, and the body language when McDermott is genuinely concerned. 

 

I think they are VERY concerned right now. 

[Locomark]

I don’t get the hype with Queen. He gets washed all the time and you rarely see him make some play against the passing game.