Bills practice Thurs 8/17 starting with McD interview

[Beck Water]

OK, so the Bills posted these highlights on their web page now.

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/camp-highlight-taylor-rapp-diving-interception

 

They also have some stills of this.  #37 38 39 if the links don't work
https://www.buffalobills.com/photos/photos-2023-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-16#4d7d51f1-2c1c-4a0a-b730-381769b81e7a
https://www.buffalobills.com/photos/photos-2023-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-16#b15e2b6b-3d8f-4b64-86e6-5fba9a7b42cf

https://www.buffalobills.com/photos/photos-2023-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-16#10395155-a36b-47bc-b5d3-e88f1da32c0c

Gilliam just walks away, but you can see where the D is rocking the party and another offensive player might throw a little opinion in there.

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/camp-highlight-josh-allen-connects-with-deonte-harty-for-the-long-touchdown

 

bonus Gabe Davis TD

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/camp-highlight-josh-allen-connects-with-gabe-davis-for-a-touchdown

32 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

Air Raid has it too.  I'm going to guess it was a bills release/leak.

 

 

 

Her reply:

 

Not sure what that means though as it sounds like it's not from the Bills.

 

Twas.  It's on the Bills website now.

[Beck Water]

30 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

It’s possible Isabella earns a “starting” spot on this roster due to speed, work ethic and quickly developing trust with Josh

 

Diggs

Davis

Slot Committee: (Kincaid) Sherfield/Isabella

Harty can lineup anywhere

Shakir and Shorter fighting for a spot

Shavers to PS

1 of Ateman, Patmon, K. Johnson to PS

 

personally I’d like to keep 7WR

 

 

 

Diggs

Davis

 

Sherfield / Harty / Isabella

(perhaps a rotation like the DLine)

 

Shakir

Shorter

 

Plausible take overall.

 

I don't think we can keep 7 WR.  When we did that before, we did it at the expense of a 3 TE.  If we want a TE to be a significant part of the gameplan, we'd best have at least 3, and Morris has been doing a good camp.

 

I don't see what Shorter has done to fight for a spot.  We'll see on Saturday I guess.  And because Shakir has shown flashes on actual Sundays, I don't think we give up on him yet.  It's not impossible that all the Isabella talk from McD is tactical, and there in part to put a fear-o'-whupass into Shakir and get him to elevate, just as some speculate the MLB talk from McD is there to send a messsage to Dodson.

 

I think Shorter is going to wind up on IR and we'll keep 2 out of Shavers, Ateman, Patmon on PS if we can - trying to read the tea leaves Ateman and Patmon may have the edge over Shavers.

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

 

Allen frequently reminds me of the X-Files episode "The Unnatural". 

[Chaos]

10 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Him saying he’s concerned about MLB made me upset. Huge failure.

Earlier this year he said "you can't replace Edmunds".  I am concerned he just can't past that. 

29 minutes ago, BananaB said:

I wouldn’t cut Shakir for Sherfield. Who has the better chance to become a consistent contributor moving forward? Probably not the guy in his 5th year on his 4th team. 

Shakir was a fith round pick.  People set high expectations for him. Shorter was fifth round pick.  People are setting low expectations for him.  Seems like both play about like you might expect a fifth round pick to play. 

[scuba guy]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

 

Yup I heard it right here his elbow hurts.

 

I don't care what people say about the other qbs in the league only 1 qb can mKe that throw

[CSBill]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I apologize to everyone that’s been talking about MLB all offseason. I wasn’t worried because I thought they had a plan. Turns out there was no plan, just hope.

“Hope is the cruelest of all virtues.” (Harlan Coben).

 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by CSBill

[Warcodered]

38 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

OK, so the Bills posted these highlights on their web page now.

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/camp-highlight-taylor-rapp-diving-interception

 

They also have some stills of this.  #37 38 39 if the links don't work
https://www.buffalobills.com/photos/photos-2023-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-16#4d7d51f1-2c1c-4a0a-b730-381769b81e7a
https://www.buffalobills.com/photos/photos-2023-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-16#b15e2b6b-3d8f-4b64-86e6-5fba9a7b42cf

https://www.buffalobills.com/photos/photos-2023-buffalo-bills-training-camp-day-16#10395155-a36b-47bc-b5d3-e88f1da32c0c

Gilliam just walks away, but you can see where the D is rocking the party and another offensive player might throw a little opinion in there.

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/camp-highlight-josh-allen-connects-with-deonte-harty-for-the-long-touchdown

 

bonus Gabe Davis TD

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/camp-highlight-josh-allen-connects-with-gabe-davis-for-a-touchdown

 

Twas.  It's on the Bills website now.

Yep now with sound.

 

 

[Shaw66]

31 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'd like to re-frame this for you slightly - and maybe I should say up front that while I'm the one who entered the tweets about McDermott's comments into today's thread, it was in the spirit of helping my fellow Bills fans find coverage, not because I'm in MLB panic mode.

 

Beane does attempt to fill needs, true.  But he knows, with cap limitations and a limited number of picks, he can't fill every need with the same quality of players.  He's talked about he and the coaches "valuing" positions and players after the season - that means adjusting, based upon experience, what priority they put on each position as far as draft resources and cap $$.

 

And sometimes he makes mistakes.  He acknowledged after the fact that he could have and should have done more for the OL in 2018.  I think if you gave him a few whiskeys, he might admit that the OL and WR we took into last season were not as good as he expected pre-season.  On OL, we were counting on Brown to take a 2nd season step and on Saffold to return a bit closer to the form he had with Kromer in 2018 or so.  Did Not Happen.  At WR, he was counting on one of McKenzie, Crowder, and Shakir to seize the day and take over in the slot (or give capable slot play by committee); he was counting on Davis to build on his 2021 season.  Did Not Happen.

 

So there Beane sits, with a pile of needs and a pile of resources that's too small to fill them all at a high level, and a need to prioritize and make decisions.

 

I think it's pretty clear that Beane and the rest of the Bills Brain Trust decided that the priority this off-season would go to upgrading receiver and OL, and after that DL.  Now we may disagree with what he did - we may think that a rookie TE taken in the 1st isn't likely to be as immediately impactful as we hope, that Hardy was a risky high-ceiling low floor move because of his injury history, and that O'Cyrus Torrence in the draft and McGovern and Edwards in FA aren't enough on the OL.   We may side-eye the age at safety.  Maybe the moves he made to fill his priorities weren't the right ones.  Time will tell.

 

But at MLB, I don't think Beane thought he "had the position covered" any more than he thought he had a good OL in 2018.  But he hoped he had enough to get by.  I think, like last year at WR, he hoped that between 2 3rd round picks, a backup yearning to start, and a canny vet, he'd have enough.

 

And I do agree with - was it you, Shaw? I forget - the viewpoint that perhaps the Bills were hoping for Bernard to take a step he hasn't shown yet, physically and mentally. 

 

But just as in 2022 with WR, I don't think Beane doesn't see a need at MLB.  I just think he couldn't do everything, and he hopes he's done enough.

I agree with this, to a point.   But I think you're missing an important point, which is that one can argue with how he filled holes, but for the past few years Beane has always taken a shot at filling perceived holes.   It's what I said earlier - he's consistently gone after offensive linemen where he sees a need, running backs, receivers, DBs.  He had a need at backup safety, and he got Rapp.  The point is, we can argue about the bodies he chooses to put in holes, but he always puts a body in it.  The Bills haven't gone into any of the last three seasons without a hole in the lineup. 

 

Yes, the cap and the draft limit what he can do - every GM has more positions he'd like to upgrade than he has resources to do it.  So, he makes choices.   Sometimes, because he doesn't nave draft capital, he'll fill a hole in the line with a Feliciano or a Saffold.  But the point is, he always does something. 

 

At middle linebacker, he did nothing.  Eventually, he "added" Klein.   From day one they admitted that Williams was not likely to be the solution, at least not this season.  So, Beane did nothing.   That can only mean that he McDermott believe that what they had was good enough.   As always, people can argue about the judgment that they had what they needed, but I don't think it's arguable that Beane just ran out of money before he got to the middle linebacker.  If they needed someone, he would have gotten someone.   The Bills signed Leonard Floyd, Shane Ray, Taylor Rapp, and Poona Ford to a top-five defense, and Beane went after NO ONE to play the middle. 

 

That, in turn, leads to the conclusion that they don't think linebacker is a priority position.   That doesn't mean that they'd say the position isn't important.  All positions are important.  But in relative terms, middle linebacker is the position that they think they fill with a good athlete, but not one where they need a great football player.  

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

Good thorough post !

 But didn't McD start this LB thing off by mentioning some "concerns " at the pressers? LOL 

sorry could not help meself from that 

Yes.  As I've always said, no one is always right.  Their judgment could be wrong, and it often is.  They clearly blew it on Saffold, for example, and the Bills played last season weak at guard.  

 

But the fact that McDermott said he has concerns at middle linebacker after one preseason game doesn't mean that his judgment was wrong.  It means his middle linebackers aren't playing well enough yet.  He knew coming into the season he had work to do on the middle linebacker, because unlike every other position on the defense, his middle linebacker, whoever wins the job, will have had no experience playing the position in the NFL.  Of course he's concerned.  

 

Let's see what happens over the next six weeks.  If Beane makes a desperate acquisition to fill a hole in the middle, we'll know that they made a mistake in the middle.  I'd be surprised if that happens.  

[BigAl2526]

I suspect that at the start of the season middle linebacker is going to remain unsettled and that several players will continue to get a crack at it, possibly depending on the opponent.  During that time, I expect Dorian Williams will continue studying the MLB position, maybe getting practice reps as the opposition MLB in practice.  At some time during the season he might get a chance to start.  It's not going to happen for the opener versus the Jets though. 

[Beck Water]

25 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree with this, to a point.   But I think you're missing an important point, which is that one can argue with how he filled holes, but for the past few years Beane has always taken a shot at filling perceived holes.   It's what I said earlier - he's consistently gone after offensive linemen where he sees a need, running backs, receivers, DBs.  He had a need at backup safety, and he got Rapp.  The point is, we can argue about the bodies he chooses to put in holes, but he always puts a body in it.  The Bills haven't gone into any of the last three seasons without a hole in the lineup. 

 

Yes, the cap and the draft limit what he can do - every GM has more positions he'd like to upgrade than he has resources to do it.  So, he makes choices.   Sometimes, because he doesn't nave draft capital, he'll fill a hole in the line with a Feliciano or a Saffold.  But the point is, he always does something. 

 

At middle linebacker, he did nothing.  Eventually, he "added" Klein.   From day one they admitted that Williams was not likely to be the solution, at least not this season.  So, Beane did nothing.   That can only mean that he McDermott believe that what they had was good enough.   As always, people can argue about the judgment that they had what they needed, but I don't think it's arguable that Beane just ran out of money before he got to the middle linebacker.  If they needed someone, he would have gotten someone.   The Bills signed Leonard Floyd, Shane Ray, Taylor Rapp, and Poona Ford to a top-five defense, and Beane went after NO ONE to play the middle. 

 

That, in turn, leads to the conclusion that they don't think linebacker is a priority position.   That doesn't mean that they'd say the position isn't important.  All positions are important.  But in relative terms, middle linebacker is the position that they think they fill with a good athlete, but not one where they need a great football player.  

 

Well, I think some would argue that by drafting LB in the 3rd round in back to back drafts, by re-signing AJ Klein as a FA, and by re-signing Tyrel Dodson this spring, Beane did take a shot at filling a perceived hole at LB.  You can toss in Baylon Spector as a late round flyer and Travin Howard as a talented, but oft-injured free agent as part of his "taking a shot at filling a perceived hole".  That seems to be 4-6 "shots on goal", not nothing.

 

It's actually the same type of shots Beane took with regard to filling the hole at slot receiver last season IMO - he had a guy on the team who had shown flashes but also shown need for improvement (McKenzie), he drafted a receiver they liked in the later rounds (Shakir), he signed a free agent who had shown the ability to play decently from the slot at times (Jameison Crowder). 

 

How do you see Beane's need-filling efforts at LB as substantively different from last season's need-filling efforts at slot WR?  If Beane felt slot receiver wasn't a priority position, why had he signed Beasley in 2020?  If Beane felt MLB isn't an important position, why did he throw a 1st round pick at Edmunds in 2018?

Edited August 18, 2023 by Beck Water

[snamsnoops]

2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

 

Or a WIZzard!

[Beck Water]

54 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Earlier this year he said "you can't replace Edmunds".  I am concerned he just can't past that. 

Shakir was a fith round pick.  People set high expectations for him. Shorter was fifth round pick.  People are setting low expectations for him.  Seems like both play about like you might expect a fifth round pick to play. 

 

Well, I could be wrong but....I thought last off- and pre-season, Shakir was flashing quite a lot, and drawing a lot of mentions.

 

Have not heard much out of Shorter.

 

I think that influences the expectations.

[BananaB]

53 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Earlier this year he said "you can't replace Edmunds".  I am concerned he just can't past that. 

Shakir was a fith round pick.  People set high expectations for him. Shorter was fifth round pick.  People are setting low expectations for him.  Seems like both play about like you might expect a fifth round pick to play. 

Maybe they’ll end up like Sherfield with 60 catches in 4 years. I’m crossing my fingers. 

[vincec]

11 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They’ll likely go with AJ Klein as the failsafe. Hopefully Klein has tread left. Dodson doesn’t look capable of being the run downs MLB. 

I thought playing the run was supposed to be Dodson’s strength. He was terrible against the pass last season.

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Well, I could be wrong but....I thought last off- and pre-season, Shakir was flashing quite a lot, and drawing a lot of mentions.

 

Have not heard much out of Shorter.

 

I think that influences the expectations.

There are great players from #1 overall picks to UDFA's in NFL history.  But there is a pretty strong correlation between draft position and NFL success.  Probably "flashes" are less useful for setting expectations than draft position. Probably. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

4 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

While it's true that linebackers have plenty of responsibility covering passes on the short zone and defensive backs are supposed to provide run support,  There is no way that DBs averaging no more than 200 lbs are going to be able to take on run blockers and make plays tackling running backs the way that a quality linebacker will, nor will a linebacker be able to provide sticky coverage on an elusive receiver the way a defensive back can.  By playing what is essentially a "dime" defense (six defensive backs and one linebacker, a defense can be vulnerable to offenses getting big chunk plays by running the ball on "obvious passing downs."

Safety meaning free and strong and LBs meaning middle and outside being  interchangeable. Not a safety playing LB or a LB playing safety 

[HiMark]

Okay, so a lot of the Mafia was down on Edmunds, not enough splash plays, blah...and a lot of other of the Mafia were pretty glad to have his talent, speed, size, length, 5PD's in one game last year i think, etc.  And he got paid more than we wanted to match, so he's gone.

So now, we are going to be less effective from that position, because we went from a top 5 guy to NOT a top 5 guy.  But the rest of this D is so solid, that we will be able to prop-up a mediocre, replacement level signal caller in the middle.  Just remember the context if whoever plays is good, meh, bad, or even 'splashy.'

In order; Dodson, because he has done it before, and has earned it by holding off challengers; Bernard, because they value his speed, and hopefully he gets well; Klein, because performance is important (but I still don't think he makes the 53); Spector, because he can evidently do it, but perhaps at a purely replacement level; and Williams, who can afford to learn from the bench for quite a while, but could still end up the guy this year.

ALL of them have durability issues compared to Edmunds (cept maybe Klein) so we may see plenty of them.

I also think no way we bring someone else in, because of the signal calling aspect of the position. 

58 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree with this, to a point.   But I think you're missing an important point, which is that one can argue with how he filled holes, but for the past few years Beane has always taken a shot at filling perceived holes.   It's what I said earlier - he's consistently gone after offensive linemen where he sees a need, running backs, receivers, DBs.  He had a need at backup safety, and he got Rapp.  The point is, we can argue about the bodies he chooses to put in holes, but he always puts a body in it.  The Bills haven't gone into any of the last three seasons without a hole in the lineup. 

 

Yes, the cap and the draft limit what he can do - every GM has more positions he'd like to upgrade than he has resources to do it.  So, he makes choices.   Sometimes, because he doesn't nave draft capital, he'll fill a hole in the line with a Feliciano or a Saffold.  But the point is, he always does something. 

 

At middle linebacker, he did nothing.  Eventually, he "added" Klein.   From day one they admitted that Williams was not likely to be the solution, at least not this season.  So, Beane did nothing.   That can only mean that he McDermott believe that what they had was good enough.   As always, people can argue about the judgment that they had what they needed, but I don't think it's arguable that Beane just ran out of money before he got to the middle linebacker.  If they needed someone, he would have gotten someone.   The Bills signed Leonard Floyd, Shane Ray, Taylor Rapp, and Poona Ford to a top-five defense, and Beane went after NO ONE to play the middle. 

 

That, in turn, leads to the conclusion that they don't think linebacker is a priority position.   That doesn't mean that they'd say the position isn't important.  All positions are important.  But in relative terms, middle linebacker is the position that they think they fill with a good athlete, but not one where they need a great football player.  

Beane might be on to something with this rookie TE.

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, HiMark said:

Okay, so a lot of the Mafia was down on Edmunds, not enough splash plays, blah...and a lot of other of the Mafia were pretty glad to have his talent, speed, size, length, 5PD's in one game last year i think, etc.  And he got paid more than we wanted to match, so he's gone.

So now, we are going to be less effective from that position, because we went from a top 5 guy to NOT a top 5 guy.  But the rest of this D is so solid, that we will be able to prop-up a mediocre, replacement level signal caller in the middle.  Just remember the context if whoever plays is good, meh, bad, or even 'splashy.'

In order; Dodson, because he has done it before, and has earned it by holding off challengers; Bernard, because they value his speed, and hopefully he gets well; Klein, because performance is important (but I still don't think he makes the 53); Spector, because he can evidently do it, but perhaps at a purely replacement level; and Williams, who can afford to learn from the bench for quite a while, but could still end up the guy this year.

ALL of them have durability issues compared to Edmunds (cept maybe Klein) so we may see plenty of them.

I also think no way we bring someone else in, because of the signal calling aspect of the position. 

 

Totally agree with your bolded point.

[HiMark]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Totally agree with your bolded point.

Ooh, sorry about the bold, so embarrassing!