Bills practice Thurs 8/17 starting with McD interview

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, That's No Moon said:

A cart loaded with manure is still loaded.

Well if its a manure cart ? Then job well done ! lol

 feel Bills really did add some options for WR depth beyond Diggs and Davis and lets say Kincaid.

Some will make PS and be good enough if called up. The ones who make the team might shine a bit better and improve once in the system with Josh.

Bills grabbed some guys for the outside and inside to work through.

Good effort by the Pro scouts.

On the fence still about College scouts in general
 

5 hours ago, Snappysnackcakes said:

I think, if all else fails, we’ll see a combo of Klein on run downs and Rapp on passing downs. 

Klein and Rapp on run downs

[whorlnut]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Who are the NFL's game-changing middle linebackers?

 

Where is Ray Lewis, Brian Uhrlacher, even a Keuchle?   Defenses don't feature that kind of player any longer. 

You are 100% right and I’ve been arguing this since all the lemmings followed Joe Marino over the cliff over not getting another mlb. It’s honestly a sacrifice tjay needed to be made to make this team more well rounded. For years, the o has been neglected in lieu of bolstering the d. Beane finally spent premium picks on the o and people are upset about it?

[The Wiz]

 

[CSBill]

7 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I know they took it off the radar, but I still say they are missing the boat so to speak on not giving Williams a shot there. Yes, the position requires a lot and may be a bit much for him right now.

 

But let the kid in there to take a few lumps, learn some lessons and get the reps so he's up to speed come January. Put your most talented players on the field. 

i remember Edmunds had that role from day one of off-season work. It has been done in the McDermott era, and is possible. 

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

You love to argue about everything Ok, we get it, you don't believe Isabella has a shot and Zay Jones is unbelievable.  Good grief. 

 

Dude, that's simply not a reasonable summary of what I wrote.

 

You Do You, but you can do it without further attention from me.  ToodaLoo!

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, CSBill said:

i remember Edmunds had that role from day one of off-season work. It has been done in the McDermott era, and is possible. 

He did, but slightly different circumstances. Edmunds came from a larger program and had more experience in the position. Buffalo was also not a Super Bowl contender at the time. They were more in learning mode. So, it has happened, I'd be ok if it happened again, but also understand the reservation.

[GoBills808]

10 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

1 of 1 stuff

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I don't know how bad it is. I know after Edmunds wasn't signed, I said to myself the Bills need to fill that hole. No way did I feel any of the current guys back then were starter material. Sadly, I feel the same today. Maybe even more so. 

 

We saw how poorly the Bills D was when Edmunds wasn't in there. He was missed for sure. 

 

I guess we have to hope someone steps up or McD can somehow hide and scheme the weakness. Not ideal.

 

Personally, I think the Bills in had their eye on Jack Campbell and he got scooped up early. 

Happen to agree with this take. I'm all in on the offense. Give Allen weapons and protection. Beane has tried to do this. It's a winning strategy IMHO. 

Thought same about Jack Campbell

 

 

 But that was my Defense in mind

 Not McD s  lol

 

edited

Edited August 17, 2023 by 3rdand12

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

You are 100% right and I’ve been arguing this since all the lemmings followed Joe Marino over the cliff over not getting another mlb. It’s honestly a sacrifice tjay needed to be made to make this team more well rounded. For years, the o has been neglected in lieu of bolstering the d. Beane finally spent premium picks on the o and people are upset about it?

I've said this before:   A lot of what I do when I think about the Bills is watch the decisions and try to figure out why they were made.  

 

In this case, it seems pretty obvious.   Everyone could see that the Bills didn't have an up-and-coming star behind Edmunds.   Put aside the fact that there isn't an up-and-coming star behind almost any starter.   

 

Beane has a history of filling needs.   As much as people complain about his failures on the oline, there is no question that he has actively pursued upgrades there for several years.   He addressed running back year after.  He addressed the receiving corps every year.   He addressed the dline.  He addressed corner back.   He goes and gets help at any position where there's a need. 

 

So, I asked myself why didn't Beane go get a linebacker, either in free agency or in the draft?   The only logical reason is that he didn't think he needed one.   Everyone is all upset that all the Bills have is Bernard and Dodson, Klein and Spector, and Williams.  Well, does anyone actually think that Beane and McDermott didn't notice that's who had they had in the middle?   Of course not.  The reality is that they decided they had the position covered.  

 

Now, after one preseason game, people are nearly hysterical about how bad the middle linebackers are.   Well, maybe we ought to wait until the Bills play some real games before we declare a disaster.   I mean, were the middle linebackers using canes or walkers to get around against the Colts?  Was the defense a failure, and was that failure directly attributable to the middle linebackers?   I don't think so.   In fact, the defense gave up two touchdowns.   Hardly a crisis.  

 

As I said, I'm withholding my judgment on the position for weeks, if not a couple of months. 

[whorlnut]

10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I've said this before:   A lot of what I do when I think about the Bills is watch the decisions and try to figure out why they were made.  

 

In this case, it seems pretty obvious.   Everyone could see that the Bills didn't have an up-and-coming star behind Edmunds.   Put aside the fact that there isn't an up-and-coming star behind almost any starter.   

 

Beane has a history of filling needs.   As much as people complain about his failures on the oline, there is no question that he has actively pursued upgrades there for several years.   He addressed running back year after.  He addressed the receiving corps every year.   He addressed the dline.  He addressed corner back.   He goes and gets help at any position where there's a need. 

 

So, I asked myself why didn't Beane go get a linebacker, either in free agency or in the draft?   The only logical reason is that he didn't think he needed one.   Everyone is all upset that all the Bills have is Bernard and Dodson, Klein and Spector, and Williams.  Well, does anyone actually think that Beane and McDermott didn't notice that's who had they had in the middle?   Of course not.  The reality is that they decided they had the position covered.  

 

Now, after one preseason game, people are nearly hysterical about how bad the middle linebackers are.   Well, maybe we ought to wait until the Bills play some real games before we declare a disaster.   I mean, were the middle linebackers using canes or walkers to get around against the Colts?  Was the defense a failure, and was that failure directly attributable to the middle linebackers?   I don't think so.   In fact, the defense gave up two touchdowns.   Hardly a crisis.  

 

As I said, I'm withholding my judgment on the position for weeks, if not a couple of months. 

Another solid post. Good job, and I agree. 
 

My gripe for a long time has been the use of premium resources on the d, and I think others have had it with that as well. We had first rounder, after first rounder on the d and Allen was the only one on offense. Before Kincaid, Kelvin freaking Benjamin was the only first round offensive player Allen has played with. And he wasn’t even drafted by the bills. 
 

My point is that I think a lot of people have been pulled into thinking that defense is the key based on past draft capital usage. And when we lost a former first round pick on d, many became infatuated with jack campbell, because that’s how they thought they would replace edmunds with another first round pick. Think about it…two first round corners, first round DT, three first round edge players, two second round edge players. 
 

Either way…this is 2023. It’s a passing league. Give Allen weapons and protection. That’s priority number one. Period. Enough with the defense. We have the pieces. Now it’s up to McD to bring it all out. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by whorlnut

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

This is true.  It was noticeable last season.  At least it looked that way to me, even though rushing yards allowed per attempt were essentially the same both seasons.  

 

These discussions about the MLB have me beginning to wonder if the MLB is the least important player on defense.   Think about it.  Pretty much everyone here cares more about the corners, the edge rushers, the interior defensive linemen.  The biggest problem with the defense last season was that the Bills were missing their safeties.  

 

Edmunds, who is a sloppy tackler and who plays with very little aggressiveness, was the Bills leading tackler.   Doesn't that suggest that a solid, good athlete who is an aggressive tackler should be able to fill the position (in the run game)?   The middle linebacker is a guy who runs around in the middle and makes tackles because the guys all around the perimeter have forced the play to the inside.  

 

There are good middle linebackers in the league, by the aren't the game wreckers who used to play in the middle 20 or 30 years ago.  

 

I'm taking a wait and see approach on this.   I'm just not convinced that there's as big a problem in the middle as many here (including me) have thought.  

McD has to tweak the defense this season.

 To me , much of this revolves around losing Edmunds. Bills were over dependent on him in some ways.

Glad McDermott has taken over play calling and hoping he can transition to slightly different method.. Gotta grow and change after how we finished last season , right ?
Poona and Jones might be the leverage to let LBs take advantage. Then Oliver and Phillips

Rapp comes into play as well.

 

Very much looking forward to how Sean employs his defense this year.

 Go Bills

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

McD has to tweak the defense this season.

 To me , much of this revolves around losing Edmunds. Bills were over dependent on him in some ways.

Glad McDermott has taken over play calling and hoping he can transition to slightly different method.. Gotta grow and change after how we finished last season , right ?
Poona and Jones might be the leverage to let LBs take advantage. Then Oliver and Phillips

Rapp comes into play as well.

 

Very much looking forward to how Sean employs his defense this year.

 Go Bills

My only doubts with this lie in the fact that McD had a top d a few years ago…and then 13 seconds happened. He has a lot to prove this year. 

[gordong]

4 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I think you are under-estimating Sherfield and Harty to be honest.  They are strong WR's 3 and 4.

 

they are way better than last years #3 and #4.  ...   and Kincaid is going to be really good might take a couple years but he has star written all over him.

[Beck Water]

35 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

How did this lady get that video?  It's like from field level at practice.

[3rdand12]

18 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I've said this before:   A lot of what I do when I think about the Bills is watch the decisions and try to figure out why they were made.  

 

In this case, it seems pretty obvious.   Everyone could see that the Bills didn't have an up-and-coming star behind Edmunds.   Put aside the fact that there isn't an up-and-coming star behind almost any starter.   

 

Beane has a history of filling needs.   As much as people complain about his failures on the oline, there is no question that he has actively pursued upgrades there for several years.   He addressed running back year after.  He addressed the receiving corps every year.   He addressed the dline.  He addressed corner back.   He goes and gets help at any position where there's a need. 

 

So, I asked myself why didn't Beane go get a linebacker, either in free agency or in the draft?   The only logical reason is that he didn't think he needed one.   Everyone is all upset that all the Bills have is Bernard and Dodson, Klein and Spector, and Williams.  Well, does anyone actually think that Beane and McDermott didn't notice that's who had they had in the middle?   Of course not.  The reality is that they decided they had the position covered.  

 

Now, after one preseason game, people are nearly hysterical about how bad the middle linebackers are.   Well, maybe we ought to wait until the Bills play some real games before we declare a disaster.   I mean, were the middle linebackers using canes or walkers to get around against the Colts?  Was the defense a failure, and was that failure directly attributable to the middle linebackers?   I don't think so.   In fact, the defense gave up two touchdowns.   Hardly a crisis.  

 

As I said, I'm withholding my judgment on the position for weeks, if not a couple of months. 

Good thorough post !

 But didn't McD start this LB thing off by mentioning some "concerns " at the pressers? LOL 

sorry could not help meself from that 

[The Wiz]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

How did this lady get that video?  It's like from field level at practice.

Air Raid has it too.  I'm going to guess it was a bills release/leak.

 

 

 

Her reply:

 

Not sure what that means though as it sounds like it's not from the Bills.

Edited August 17, 2023 by The Wiz

[3rdand12]

7 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

My only doubts with this lie in the fact that McD had a top d a few years ago…and then 13 seconds happened. He has a lot to prove this year. 

I would like to mention, that i never brought up that stat
But i do feel the D line and back end are much better prepared to run the gauntlet. Depth and quality thereof 

[Warriorspikes51]

It’s possible Isabella earns a “starting” spot on this roster due to speed, work ethic and quickly developing trust with Josh

 

Diggs

Davis

Slot Committee: (Kincaid) Sherfield/Isabella

Harty can lineup anywhere

Shakir and Shorter fighting for a spot

Shavers to PS

1 of Ateman, Patmon, K. Johnson to PS

 

personally I’d like to keep 7WR

 

 

 

Diggs

Davis

 

Sherfield / Harty / Isabella

(perhaps a rotation like the DLine)

 

Shakir

Shorter

Edited August 17, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

So, I asked myself why didn't Beane go get a linebacker, either in free agency or in the draft?   The only logical reason is that he didn't think he needed one.   Everyone is all upset that all the Bills have is Bernard and Dodson, Klein and Spector, and Williams.  Well, does anyone actually think that Beane and McDermott didn't notice that's who had they had in the middle?   Of course not.  The reality is that they decided they had the position covered. 

 

I'd like to re-frame this for you slightly - and maybe I should say up front that while I'm the one who entered the tweets about McDermott's comments into today's thread, it was in the spirit of helping my fellow Bills fans find coverage, not because I'm in MLB panic mode.

 

Beane does attempt to fill needs, true.  But he knows, with cap limitations and a limited number of picks, he can't fill every need with the same quality of players.  He's talked about he and the coaches "valuing" positions and players after the season - that means adjusting, based upon experience, what priority they put on each position as far as draft resources and cap $$.

 

And sometimes he makes mistakes.  He acknowledged after the fact that he could have and should have done more for the OL in 2018.  I think if you gave him a few whiskeys, he might admit that the OL and WR we took into last season were not as good as he expected pre-season.  On OL, we were counting on Brown to take a 2nd season step and on Saffold to return a bit closer to the form he had with Kromer in 2018 or so.  Did Not Happen.  At WR, he was counting on one of McKenzie, Crowder, and Shakir to seize the day and take over in the slot (or give capable slot play by committee); he was counting on Davis to build on his 2021 season.  Did Not Happen.

 

So there Beane sits, with a pile of needs and a pile of resources that's too small to fill them all at a high level, and a need to prioritize and make decisions.

 

I think it's pretty clear that Beane and the rest of the Bills Brain Trust decided that the priority this off-season would go to upgrading receiver and OL, and after that DL.  Now we may disagree with what he did - we may think that a rookie TE taken in the 1st isn't likely to be as immediately impactful as we hope, that Hardy was a risky high-ceiling low floor move because of his injury history, and that O'Cyrus Torrence in the draft and McGovern and Edwards in FA aren't enough on the OL.   We may side-eye the age at safety.  Maybe the moves he made to fill his priorities weren't the right ones.  Time will tell.

 

But at MLB, I don't think Beane thought he "had the position covered" any more than he thought he had a good OL in 2018.  But he hoped he had enough to get by.  I think, like last year at WR, he hoped that between 2 3rd round picks, a backup yearning to start, and a canny vet, he'd have enough.

 

And I do agree with - was it you, Shaw? I forget - the viewpoint that perhaps the Bills were hoping for Bernard to take a step he hasn't shown yet, physically and mentally. 

 

But just as in 2022 with WR, I don't think Beane doesn't see a need at MLB.  I just think he couldn't do everything, and he hopes he's done enough.

[BananaB]

10 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

It’s possible Isabella earns a “starting” spot on this roster due to speed, work ethic and quickly developing trust with Josh

 

Diggs

Davis

Slot Committee: (Kincaid) Sherfield/Isabella

Harty can lineup anywhere

Shakir and Shorter fighting for a spot

Shavers to PS

1 of Ateman, Patmon, K. Johnson to PS

 

personally I’d like to keep 7WR

 

 

 

Diggs

Davis

 

Sherfield / Harty / Isabella

(perhaps a rotation like the DLine)

 

Shakir

Shorter

I wouldn’t cut Shakir for Sherfield. Who has the better chance to become a consistent contributor moving forward? Probably not the guy in his 5th year on his 4th team.