Titans Up Offer For Henry

[BillsFanForever19]

Lamar Gordon , who has gained 590 yards and scored 2 TD's in 3 years, was traded to Miami for a 3rd round pick.

 

We should be happy to get a 4th for Henry, eh ?  Gotcha...

349495[/snapback]

 

Had we offered up TH at THAT time, we probably would have gotten a 1st for him.

 

But at THIS time, RB's are a dime a dozen. The draft was so rich at the position, that most teams filled their needs with guys like Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams, J.J. Arrington and others. Then you have Shaun Alexander and Edge James perhaps looking to be moved and Ricky Williams coming back to the Dolphins who spent the 2nd pick overall on a RB.

 

Supply and demand mon ami. There's a whole lot of supply and not a lot of demand. This year's offer of a 4th is like last year's offer of a 2nd or 1st.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

I simply disagree with your assessment of Henry's talent. To me he is a stupid one demensional runningback who can not mentally or physically grasp the complixities of modern offenses.

He can't? Funny that he rushed for almost 1,400 yards and 12 TD's in back to back seasons, and caught 43 passes back in 2002. That's a lot for a player with the description you gave above.

Just my opinion - but it seems it is the opinion of the rest of the league as well.

I'd be willing to bet that the "rest of the league" is hoping TD gets frustrated and releases Travis outright, like the Cards did with Shelton. But they'll be finding out, if they don't already know, that TD is serious about keeping him unless he gets a good pick for him, however long it takes.

[Mark VI]

Had we offered up TH at THAT time, we probably would have gotten a 1st for him.

 

But at THIS time, RB's are a dime a dozen. The draft was so rich at the position, that most teams filled their needs with guys like Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams, J.J. Arrington and others. Then you have Shaun Alexander and Edge James perhaps looking to be moved and Ricky Williams coming back to the Dolphins who spent the 2nd pick overall on a RB.

 

Supply and demand mon ami. There's a whole lot of supply and not a lot of demand. This year's 4th is like last year's 2nd or 1st.

349523[/snapback]

 

Alexander and James want new contracts, calling for 40 Mil + with a minimum 10 Mil bonus. They are screwing themselves with their high demands. Ricky Williams must serve a suspension and will be banned for life for his next violation. A monster gamble with a big contract who cannot even help a team until Week 5 of this season. I'm very aware of all the blemishes that Henry has but he's still a bargain.

 

The Bills will sit tight and wait until training camp injuries kick in. I don't see why this is such a dire concern to many. We're not talking about a starter or about receiving a quality starter in return. This is about dealing a disgrutled backup for a pick in next years draft.

[jad1]

Had we offered up TH at THAT time, we probably would have gotten a 1st for him.

 

But at THIS time, RB's are a dime a dozen. The draft was so rich at the position, that most teams filled their needs with guys like Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams, J.J. Arrington and others. Then you have Shaun Alexander and Edge James perhaps looking to be moved and Ricky Williams coming back to the Dolphins who spent the 2nd pick overall on a RB.

 

Supply and demand mon ami. There's a whole lot of supply and not a lot of demand. This year's offer of a 4th is like last year's offer of a 2nd or 1st.

349523[/snapback]

 

Yeah, we could have gotten a 1st for Henry because Miami suffered a meltdown at RB in training camp. Could they have gotten a 1st rounder before Williams retired? Probably not.

 

There are a lot of teams that are vulnerable at the RB position right now. There are a lot of things that could happen to increase the demand for a RB by the time training camp rolls around.

 

For all his faults, Henry has performed well for a 2nd round pick. I don't mind Donahoe playing the waiting game to get similar value for him in a trade.

[ganesh]

The Jags are involved as well.  As much as they try to deny it, they're worried like hell about Taylor.  It might not happen before the start of training camp on that front, but just wait.  Like I said, there's no hurry to deal Travis since trading deadline is many months away, much less the draft.

349429[/snapback]

 

The teams that try to acquire TH would like to get the deal done so that

TH can get his hands on the playbook and also participate in the off season

conditioning program (considering that he is not in the Bills program either).

I don't know why a team would wait till training camp to get it done...My

feeling is TH is going to be dealt in a week or two...

 

However, my big question for TH is, what happens if Chris Brown beats you

out for the starting role come Fall ? Is he going to accept it. If so what is

difference between the TEn situation and the Bills situation.

[Willie_Mac_Attack]

Couldn't we get a 4th round compensatory pick in next years draft by not doing anything and losing him to free agency? TH will show up before the checks stop coming his way. The Bills are not running a charity. Why would we make another team better for anything less than a third rounder? I could care less if TH is unhappy. We went to 4 straight Super Bowls when the team hated each other. Every team has its share of malcontents. For the difference between a low 4th round pick (TEN) and a late 4th round pick (compensatory), I'd rather have a stud back on my team for the whole year.

[stinky finger]

I simply disagree with your assessment of Henry's talent. To me he is a stupid one demensional runningback who can not mentally or physically grasp the complixities of modern offenses. Just my opinion - but it seems it is the opinion of the rest of the league as well.

349506[/snapback]

Desperation due to injury will change the opinion of other GM's. You gain NOTHING trading him now, or more accurately, not as much. Just be patient. We'll get exactly what we want. Regarding TH handling the "physical complexities", you're dead wrong. He's already proven that. He may be dumber than a stump, but don't tell me he can't handle it physically.

[stinky finger]

Had we offered up TH at THAT time, we probably would have gotten a 1st for him.

 

But at THIS time, RB's are a dime a dozen. The draft was so rich at the position, that most teams filled their needs with guys like Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, Cadillac Williams, J.J. Arrington and others. Then you have Shaun Alexander and Edge James perhaps looking to be moved and Ricky Williams coming back to the Dolphins who spent the 2nd pick overall on a RB.

 

Supply and demand mon ami. There's a whole lot of supply and not a lot of demand. This year's offer of a 4th is like last year's offer of a 2nd or 1st.

349523[/snapback]

You couldn't be more wrong. The drafted RB's have come and gone. Jags and Titans are already in need. Others will be too. JUST BE PATIENT. As far as James and Alexander, they're too expensive which makes TH more valuable. TH can be had for much less than those two.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Really? Who?

 

Look, the market is clear on the going price for Henry - They best TD can do is get a fourth round pick with incentives that could push it to a second or third.

 

Dreaming, wishing, or hoping will not make the situation any better. Look at it this way, what would you trade for a back who is 15th -20th best in the league? When looked at in this light a fourth round pick looks good.

349487[/snapback]

 

Even if the market is clear about the price for Henry (which it isn't actually. the key top the market is that the same player can have have a totally different value for different teams. Was Peerless worth a Bills first round choice in 2003? Not on your life, he was not our #1 WR because we had Moulds and we had a #3 Reed who had been productive in his rookie year. We had used a second rounder to acquire him and if the Bills had traded even a 2004 1st to replace PP lost to FA Bills fans would have screamed like Jets fans during a draft.

 

However, PP was clearly worth a 1st to AT because they had no real #1 WR and had invested heavily in Vick. Arthur Blank cinched the deal for Buffalo by publicly declaing PP had great value and that he would spend what it took to get him.

 

PP's market value was different for different teams and that is how deals get done. Reality revealing that PP was not even a #1 quality WR and the Bills getting WM with ATs pick and him having a tremendous year last year is what has made this an outstanding get by TD.

 

TSW posters really are making a huge error in acting as though there is some static value for a player based on draft choices. TD has done a great job in assessing player value for trade/contract purposes not so much in his assessing whether a player will make it or not (this is important, but due to injuries and other uncontrollable factors who knows really what the future holds) as though he has some absolute value, but he has proved to be prettty good at assessing what the market value is for players and positions of other teams and acting boldly to take advantage.

 

The AT read was an easier one because Arthur Blank made it easy. However, he acted boldly by tagging Price and even more boldly by picking WM. His reads on the Campbell trade and moving Gary were not bad either. it has actually been the draft where TD has made some extraordinary reads merging his knowledge of the Bills needs based on his plan with is knowledge and estimates of others needs.

 

1. Picking a WR eith our 2nd pick in 2002 when most thought our need would lead us to pick a DL player and then trading up at the last minute to pick a DE on the phone with the next draft choice was a great read of the market. Reed has disappointed after his first year achievements and Denney got a rough start but allowed us to go with only 3 DEs last year, but the read of the market was great.

 

2. Seeing that with our 2003 1st choice we could pass on taking our more immediate need of a DE because the run on DEs prior to our pick meant that Kelsay (seen as a 1st rounder by some pundits) would still be there when our 2nd choice came around was a great market read.

 

3. The Bills overarching success in signing UDFAs like Peters or Baker the last couple of years which has paid off in a high performance ST last year looks like a great job of reading the market.

 

TD ain't perfect by a long shot (if he was we would be in the SB or have a much better record under him he made a serious error in choosing GW and in restructuring the Bledsoe deal and it cost us). However, the one thing he clearly realizes is that the market varies alot from team to team and good trades and draft performance comes from reading these differences.

 

In addition to the error of assuming some illusory static value for a individual player, the idea that the market is set for Henry ignores the fact that the market changes a lot with events or time.

 

An example is the Jags correctly assigned no market value to Henry originally, but as their medical exams have revealed questions about Taylor's health, the market value for making Henry a Jag seems to have gone way up.

 

Right now there are three spots seemingly which fit Henry and his all important contract situation:

 

1. The Titans have a likely RB need due to injury Henry appears to be one of the most hopeful and marketable choices due to his contract status and achievement of a Pro Bowl.

 

2. The Jags say they are not interested which is the correct thing to say if you are interested but it probably does not matter whether they are as it leverages the Titans to make a deal or they may lose out.

 

3. The Bills themselves remain a potential landing ground for Henry as though Henry has cut ties the Bills have not. Since Henry has little choice but the Wickey option if the Bills choose to keep him and like even Wickey in the end money talks this one is still a live option which allows TD to sit and wait.

 

4. Once camp starts, the potential for RB injury increases (even for WM) and it is far from certain but not unlikely that new markets for Henry will be created and the Bills may be able to get someone to pay through the nose.

 

The market for Henry is not set at all.

[stinky finger]

Even if the market is clear about the price for Henry (which it isn't actually. the key top the market is that the same player can have have a totally different value for different teams.  Was Peerless worth a Bills first round choice in 2003? Not on your life, he was not our #1 WR because we had Moulds and we had a #3 Reed who had been productive in his rookie year. We had used a second rounder to acquire him and if the Bills had traded even a 2004 1st to replace PP lost to FA Bills fans would have screamed like Jets fans during a draft.

 

However, PP was clearly worth a 1st to AT because they had no real #1 WR and had invested heavily in Vick. Arthur Blank cinched the deal for Buffalo by publicly declaing PP had great value and that he would spend what it took to get him.

 

PP's market value was different for different teams and that is how deals get done.  Reality revealing that PP was not even a #1 quality WR and the Bills getting WM with ATs pick and him having a tremendous year last year is what has made this an outstanding get by TD.

 

TSW posters really are making a huge error in acting as though there is some static value for a player based on draft choices.  TD has done a great job in assessing player value for trade/contract purposes not so much in his assessing whether a player will make it or not (this is important, but due to injuries and other uncontrollable factors who knows really what the future holds) as though he has some absolute value, but he has proved to be prettty good at assessing what the market value is for players and positions of other teams and acting boldly to take advantage.

 

The AT read was an easier one because Arthur Blank made it easy. However, he acted boldly by tagging Price and even more boldly by picking WM.  His reads on the Campbell trade and moving Gary were not bad either.  it has actually been the draft where TD has made some extraordinary reads merging his knowledge of the Bills needs based on his plan with is knowledge and estimates of others needs.

 

1. Picking a WR eith our 2nd pick in 2002 when most thought our need would lead us to pick a DL player and then trading up at the last minute to pick a DE on the phone with the next draft choice was a great read of the market. Reed has disappointed after his first year achievements and Denney got a rough start but allowed us to go with only 3 DEs last year, but the read of the market was great.

 

2. Seeing that with our 2003 1st choice we could pass on taking our more immediate need of a DE because the run on DEs prior to our pick meant that Kelsay (seen as a 1st rounder by some pundits) would still be there when our 2nd choice came around was a great market read.

 

3. The Bills overarching success in signing UDFAs like Peters or Baker the last couple of years which has paid off in a high performance ST last year looks like a great job of reading the market.

 

TD ain't perfect  by a long shot (if he was we would be in the SB or have a much better record under him he made a serious error in choosing GW and in restructuring the Bledsoe deal and it cost us). However, the one thing he clearly realizes is that the market varies alot from team to team and good trades and draft performance comes from reading these differences.

 

In addition to the error of assuming some illusory static value for a individual player, the idea that the market is set for Henry ignores the fact that the market changes a lot with events or time.

 

An example is the Jags correctly assigned no market value to Henry originally, but as their medical exams have revealed questions about Taylor's health, the market value for making Henry a Jag seems to have gone way up.

 

Right now there are three spots seemingly which fit Henry and his all important contract situation:

 

1. The Titans have a likely RB need due to injury Henry appears to be one of the most hopeful and marketable choices due to his contract status and achievement of a Pro Bowl.

 

2. The Jags say they are not interested which is the correct thing to say if you are interested but it probably does not matter whether they are as it leverages the Titans to make a deal or they may lose out.

 

3. The Bills themselves remain a potential landing ground for Henry as though Henry has cut ties the Bills have not.  Since Henry has little choice but the Wickey option if the Bills choose to keep him and like even Wickey in the end money talks this one is still a live option which allows TD to sit and wait.

 

4. Once camp starts, the potential for RB injury increases (even for WM) and it is far from certain but not unlikely that new markets for Henry will be created and the Bills may be able to get someone to pay through the nose.

 

The market for Henry is not set at all.

349581[/snapback]

Goodness gracious, FFS. That one tired me out.

[Bill from NYC]

I simply disagree with your assessment of Henry's talent. To me he is a stupid one demensional runningback who can not mentally or physically grasp the complixities of modern offenses. Just my opinion - but it seems it is the opinion of the rest of the league as well.

349506[/snapback]

 

You are right, and this is not the first time a rumor has the board all set to trade Travis and obtain Gallery, Jason Taylor, Miami's first round pick (#2), a player AND a first round pick, etc.

A 4th, IF of course this is true (and I am skeptical), is better than anything else that was offered for this loser. TD likes to deal on draft day and an additional 4th can come in handy when trying to trade up.

Pull the trigger TD!

[1billsfan]

You are right, and this is not the first time a rumor has the board all set to trade Travis and obtain Gallery, Jason Taylor, Miami's first round pick (#2), a player AND a first round pick, etc.

A 4th, IF of course this is true (and I am skeptical), is better than anything else that was offered for this loser. TD likes to deal on draft day and an additional 4th can come in handy when trying to trade up.

Pull the trigger TD! 

349596[/snapback]

 

Why you're giddy over a fourth round pick is beyond baffeling to me.

[Fla Bills Fan]

Lamar Gordon , who has gained 590 yards and scored 2 TD's in 3 years, was traded to Miami for a 3rd round pick.

 

We should be happy to get a 4th for Henry, eh ?  Gotcha...

349495[/snapback]

I'm with you. Thank God TD is our GM, not some of the Jokers on this board. I swear some of them must really be Pats or Fins fans.

[San-O]

BillsDaily.com is reporting Titans offering a fourth round pick.

 

Why not take that?

[Like A Mofo]

Ive heard of a 4th round pick, GIT ER DONE!

[slothrop]

He can't?  Funny that he rushed for almost 1,400 yards and 12 TD's in back to back seasons, and caught 43 passes back in 2002.  That's a lot for a player with the description you gave above.

 

349533[/snapback]

 

Compare Travis Henry's rushing statistics from 01-04 with Anthony Thomas' stats in that same period. Thomas was benched for Thomas Jones and is now a backup in Dallas. Henry will have the same fate.

 

Again, I ask, what would you give for a top 15-20 running back? Fourth round pick sounds fair.

[Mickey]

I say that we drag him through camp and then wait for the RB's to fall. It's a gamble worth taking! My guess is that two or three teams will need him by then.

 

Jeff

349493[/snapback]

I don't like the karma of that situation at all. Our starter is coming off of one of the most horrible knee injuries I have ever seen and it wasn't even his first. Wishing for some other RB for some other team to go down so we can get a third instead of a fourth round pick gives me the heebie-jeebies.

[Dan III]

Ive heard of a 4th round pick, GIT ER DONE! 

349794[/snapback]

[jarthur31]

Exactly, that is the middle ground. If Henry runs for 1500 yds (which won't happen) and 12 td's then maybe they give us a 2nd or more likely a third.

 

So take the 4th round pick and make it a higher pick if certain benchmarks are reached.

349467[/snapback]

 

I'd rather hold out for a 3rd rounder than anything lower based on performance. I think TD wants some assurance.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Compare Travis Henry's rushing statistics from 01-04 with Anthony Thomas' stats in that same period. Thomas was benched for Thomas Jones and is now a backup in Dallas. Henry will have the same fate.

Thomas' stats can't even match Travis'. Thomas got 1183 yards in 2001 and 1024 in the 2 seasons in which he managed to break 1,000 yards, and scored 7 and 6 TD's respective. Travis OTOH averaged almost 1,400 yards and 12 TD's in back-to-back seasons in 2002 and 2003. He was 5th in rushing in the NFL in 2002 and 11th in 2003, and combined I'd say that ranks him somewhere around 8th or 9th in the NFL in terms of rushing, as well as scoring. Last year he was injured and replaced by a potentially great RB and had a poor attitude overall. I don't know how one good season of 1183 yards and 7 TD's yards compares in any way, shape, or form to almost 1,400 yards and 12 TD's in 2 seasons, but again I'd ask to know how many 4th round or later RB's have averaged that in ANY 2 seasons, versus RB's selected higher than that.

Again, I ask, what would you give for a top 15-20 running back? Fourth round pick sounds fair.

Like I said above, Travis would be a top-10 RB, and there's no way I'd accept less than a third. Hell I don't want to part with him for less than a 2nd, but the market is such that a 3rd, which could conditionally increase, is probably the best the Bills will get.