Practice Wed 8/16 starting with Dorsey interview

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, Blackbeard said:

What's the scoop from Ariz regarding Isabella?  

 

That's a really good question.  I've been poking around trying to figure that out.

https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2020/1/6/21051768/the-curious-case-of-andy-isabella

 

8 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

Just googled him.  He was drafted 2019 by cards.  So this is his 4th year in nfl though its his 3rd team.  Guess  Cards don't develop wrs and if they don't hit they reload.

 

5th year. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Beck Water

[AuntieEm]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

That's a really good question.  I've been poking around trying to figure that out.

https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2020/1/6/21051768/the-curious-case-of-andy-isabella

 

 

5th year. 

 

He was drafted in 2019 draft.  It's 2023  subtract 2019 that's 4 years.

 

[Logic]

For those thinking it unlikely that a speedy WR could languish a bit in Arizona and then experience a breakout post-Cardinals, I'd point out Christian Kirk.

Granted, Kirk had considerably more success and production as a Cardinal than Isabella did -- I'm not denying that at all. 

Still, it wasn't until Kirk's fifth season, and his first outside of Arizona, that he surpassed 1,000 yards receiving, while also setting career highs in catches and touchdowns.

Again, not saying they're the same guy, or that Isabella is about to have the same success as Christian Kirk. Just pointing out that yes, sometimes players fail to flourish on one team -- an Arizona team facing OC and HC turnover and erratic QB play, in this case -- and go on to have greater success elsewhere.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Logic

[Beck Water]

Lil' Dirty still stirring the sh** for the Bills:

 

 

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

He was drafted in 2019 draft.  It's 2023  subtract 2019 that's 4 years.

 

He's been in the league for 4 years.  This season will be his 5th.

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

He was drafted in 2019 draft.  It's 2023  subtract 2019 that's 4 years.

 

 

Really?  We gotta do this?

 

2019 season

2020 season

2021 season

2022 season

 

You said "So this is his 4th year in nfl though its his 3rd team" 

 

The 2023 sesaon is his 5th year in the NFL 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Beck Water

[NickelCity]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Yeah he’s got the speed alright.  Comparing him to Cole, Cole is a hooper like Stevie Johnson.  They attacked their defender and set up their moves with leverage and had an innate feeling of how to feel and beat their man.  
 

isabella doesn’t look like those guys as they ran their routes.  He seems like a fast athlete minus the feel aspect of running routes.  But my couch has been known to be wrong

 

He had a nice little shoulder dip/juke on a route last week. Based on that enormous sample size I think we're got a breakout star and Josh's new favorite weapon in the wings...

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

 

He had a nice little shoulder dip/juke on a route last week. Based on that enormous sample size I think we're got a breakout star and Josh's new favorite weapon in the wings...

Not sure if it’s the same play as I’m thinking of, but if it is, he was against a LB (#50 iirc).  Short crosser where he stopped, looked to be turning around, and then continued and the LB was flat footed and toast.  It was a nice route vs a guy ill equipped to defend it.  

[NoSaint]

38 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

 

Just googled him.  He was drafted 2019 by cards.  So this is his 4th year in nfl though its his 3rd team.  Guess  Cards don't develop wrs and if they don't hit they reload.

played in 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022

 

this, 2023, is the 5th season in the league 

 

Hes among the senior members of our receiving squad, minus diggs. 
 

WRs don’t get forever as there are near endless 5’10-6’2 guys that can run fast and catch well. By the time you are off the rookie contract, which he played 3.5 out of 4 years of with the cardinals, you are either in the league or out of it for the most part… and right now he’s trying to fight back in as WR7-8 signed during camp at vet minimum with zero signing bonus or guarantees 
 

the cardinals didn’t even hold him til the end of the year as there was no faith he’d be a qualifying signing for a comp pick. Which was correct. 

 

 

[msw2112]

I am intrigued by Isabella's speed and he's looked good so far as a WR.  Something that has not been pointed out yet, but that I have observed, is that although he's participating in the return game, I don't see that he's shown any particular talent there.  Has he broken any returns in practice?  I didn't see much to get excited about in the preseason game.  I suppose he hung onto the ball, so there's that.

[NoSaint]

28 minutes ago, Logic said:

For those thinking it unlikely that a speedy WR could languish a bit in Arizona and then experience a breakout post-Cardinals, I'd point out Christian Kirk.

Granted, Kirk had considerably more success and production as a Cardinal than Isabella did -- I'm not denying that at all. 

Still, it wasn't until Kirk's fifth season, and his first outside of Arizona, that he surpassed 1,000 yards receiving, while also setting career highs in catches and touchdowns.

Again, not saying they're the same guy, or that Isabella is about to have the same success as Christian Kirk. Just pointing out that yes, sometimes players fail to flourish on one team -- an Arizona team facing OC and HC turnover and erratic QB play, in this case -- and go on to have greater success elsewhere.

the league found kirk to be worth a massive contract. It should tell you how wide the gap is between Isabella and even an average starting WR 

[AuntieEm]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

the league found kirk to be worth a massive contract. It should tell you how wide the gap is between Isabella and even an average starting WR 

 

And never know maybe he just clicks with the Bills and then we just have to see if He signs a extension early instead of cashing in as teams needing wr talent will pay him.

[vincec]

How could Kyle Allen and Matt Barkley have possibly “graded out the same”? If that’s the case then I seriously question the grading system. More likely, IMO, is that they really want Allen to win the job so they are talking him up and giving him every opportunity.

[TFBillsfan]

It’s nice that on 8/16 one of the main topics for dialogue is competition for who gets the 6th WR spot. I’m just hoping we get more productivity from the slot this year. Teams have to respect Diggs and Davis with the deep ball. That makes the underneath vulnerable if Harty, Kincaid, Knox, etc can take advantage!
 

BTW when does Josh get a vet rest day? I don’t recall him not practicing yet?

 

 

[Beck Water]

So  I don't know what to make of this.  TBN article by Katharine Fitzgerald on Dodson.

 

Quote

For plenty of practice the last two days, Buffalo Bills linebacker Tyrel Dodson was loud and up close to others. In two particularly fiery practices, Dodson has frequently been a main character.  But then Wednesday, for more than 30 minutes after practice ended, Dodson was silent and alone. As his teammates filtered off the field, he lay on the far sideline, stretching some, but for the most part, his face was toward at the sky.

After a while, Bills director of player engagement Mark Carrier and head athletic trainer Nate Breske went over to Dodson. The three walked off together after talking on the field for a bit. But everything was OK, Dodson said. He simply had been meditating.

 

I have been told that meditation is quite common among NFL players now a days.  Later in the article, Dodson says he started because Poyer suggested it to him.
 

Quote

When asked Wednesday why practice has been so heated the last few days, Dodson replied with a question of his own: “You guys have like brothers or sisters?”

He likens the tension to being around a sibling too much, with players getting under each other’s skin.  “It's like having pads on and hitting them every day and seeing them every day – it's gonna get chippy, it's gonna get competitive,” Dodson said. “Guys are gonna get in fights, but at the end of the day, we're all brothers.”

 

Quote

On Wednesday, after chirping at backup quarterback Matt Barkley, Dodson got an earful from across the field from left tackle Dion Dawkins.

Dodson then checked in with linebackers coach Bobby Babich, who also calmed Dodson on Tuesday. Dodson finds Babich’s ability to meet him where he’s at to be immeasurable, with Babich being fiery when it’s called for, and collected at other times.

 

“He's coached a lot of players, a lot of great players,” Dodson said of Babich. “He just gives me different nuggets here and there, and how to stay calm when in the midst of things.”

 

Head coach Sean McDermott talked to Dodson next, before the linebacker rejoined the defense. Shortly after, as the offense and defense split to different fields, Dodson spent close to 10 minutes watching the defense from the side while talking to director of player personnel Terrance Gray. Dodson said all was well on both fronts.

 

Now here's where I don't know.  On the one hand, if you got a player who is getting the attention of the LB coach, the HC, and the director of player personnel, he's obviously a player they value and want to put time into helping.  Same with director of player engagement and head athletic trainer going over to him.

 

On the other hand, just from experience in other avenues than football, when someone is getting so much attention from (by analogy) his manager and his 2nd level manager and others, it's usually not a sign that "all is well on these fronts", it's usually a sign that the employee is known to be struggling in some way, and there is concern either for his mental health, or his OTJP, or both.
 

25 minutes ago, vincec said:

How could Kyle Allen and Matt Barkley have possibly “graded out the same”? If that’s the case then I seriously question the grading system. More likely, IMO, is that they really want Allen to win the job so they are talking him up and giving him every opportunity.

 

You're asking the very same question I asked for myself.  My reaction was "WTF are they grading?"

Edited August 16, 2023 by Beck Water

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, AuntieEm said:

 

He was drafted in 2019 draft.  It's 2023  subtract 2019 that's 4 years.

 

 

It's 5.  

 

1. 2019

2. 2020

3. 2021

4. 2022

5. 2023 - 5th year in the league.  

[bobobonators]

This discussion of Shakir possibly getting cut is crazy talk. 
 

He made some plays for us late last season. This is his second yr and he’s still under contract for a while longer. It would make zero sense to cut him. 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Yeah he’s got the speed alright.  Comparing him to Cole, Cole is a hooper like Stevie Johnson.  They attacked their defender and set up their moves with leverage and had an innate feeling of how to feel and beat their man.  
 

isabella doesn’t look like those guys as they ran their routes.  He seems like a fast athlete minus the feel aspect of running routes.  But my couch has been known to be wrong

 

It's not just the "hooper" thing vs. speed.  McKenzie, by the time he had left here, had developed some moves to release and fake his defender, in addition to the speed to run away from them and get open. 

 

What Beasley had that really set him apart, in addition to the ability to beat that man, was the ability to dissect the defense - to watch film and understand how that team's zone defense concepts worked and how to adjust during the play to what the defense was showing him - then, how to get on the same page with Allen, both while watching film during the week, then by using his body language to show Allen what he was going to do post-snap.

 

For whatever reason, McKenzie never developed that communication and trust with Allen against zone. 

 

Now Allen has praised Isabella's "good body language", which I never heard him say about McKenzie.  But that's the unknown.

 

 

[Big Blitz]

In summer 2019 Isabella was getting a lot of hype in the fantasy world - take that for what it’s worth.  
 

If I recall I think he got banged up to start that season.  I’d have to check.  
 

Then Covid 2020, Kingsbury, Kirk playing in front of him - road blocks.  
 

 

I think he makes the team.  It’s not just from his play last week but it’s how they’re talking about him.  

[MasterStrategist]

24 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

So  I don't know what to make of this.  TBN article by Katharine Fitzgerald on Dodson.

 

 

I have been told that meditation is quite common among NFL players now a days.  Later in the article, Dodson says he started because Poyer suggested it to him.
 

 

 

Now here's where I don't know.  On the one hand, if you got a player who is getting the attention of the LB coach, the HC, and the director of player personnel, he's obviously a player they value and want to put time into helping.  Same with director of player engagement and head athletic trainer going over to him.

 

On the other hand, just from experience in other avenues than football, when someone is getting so much attention from (by analogy) his manager and his 2nd level manager and others, it's usually not a sign that "all is well on these fronts", it's usually a sign that the employee is known to be struggling in some way, and there is concern either for his mental health, or his OTJP, or both.
 

 

You're asking the very same question I asked for myself.  My reaction was "WTF are they grading?"

Thanks for posting those quotes/information.

 

I think it's a simple reason(s) right now, as Dodson alluded to (brother/sister analogy).  On top of that, he's likely feeling pressure ramp up, be it taking over more reps at practice (with Bernard out & Spector today).  It's the time of year where tempers flare.

 

I wouldn't read too much into the "attention" he got/needed.  Plenty of situations guys get pulled off to the side for a chat.  I see it as a good thing if anything, we have coaches/staff well engaged. I'll get concerned if/when Dodson starts to get personal fouls/this behavior bleeds into the regular season.

 

Some of Dorseys comments likely just coach speak, and some truth in terms of certain throws Allen was asked to execute and defensive looks they had. I'm not interested in getting into a debate about Kyle vs Matt, I think we will see a better version of Kyle this week.  Just in my eyes, Matt had alot of his 1st read receivers breaking open compared to Kyle.  Matt clearly had the better game, but I can understand what Dorsey is trying to say.  This week will be a good test for both of these guys again.