Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 1

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No you misunderstand me. It is very clear signing cut players doesn't count.... what is less clear is if a player who signs a contract which, at the end of the qualifying period, is considered a qualifying contract is then cut without playing on that contract - so like if Keenum is cut when the Texans cut to 53.... does he still count against the formula? There was definitely a year either 2019 or 2020 when the Ravens cut a qualifying player (or two) at the end of camp and brought themselves back into the black so far as comp picks are concerned.

 

Oh, interesting.  Apparently things changed in 2020 so if it worked before 2020 it might not work now.

 

That seems sketch AF to me if that's allowed, because since only FA who are signed between the start of the league new year, and 1 week after the draft, count - if you can cut a guy you signed at that point and return to "the black" for comp picks what would stop teams from doing that routinely even with players they want - do a handshake agreement to cut and re-sign them?

[John from Riverside]

Telling you right now as soon as Elam is off this team, like people want, he will immediately be starting for a man cover team and do well

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Boogie Basham and Dorian Williams really impressed me. 

[without a drought]

5 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

To the bolded on Kyle Allen, for complete context he's entering his 6th season in the NFL after having started 2 years in college.

 

His play yesterday is disappointing but as was pointed out upthread, Keenum didn't look like a world beater in his preseason debut for the Bills so there's that.

 

 

 

 

For complete context, you took a statement out of context to make a obvious point that has nothing to do with the comparison.

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, without a drought said:

For complete context, you took a statement out of context to make a obvious point that has nothing to do with the comparison.

 

Actually you were an apologist for Kyle Allen pointing out his relative inexperience in this system.

 

I accurately qualified your statement by pointing out that he's entering his 6th season.

 

Both are equally true.

 

[Success]

Great discussion & analysis on this thread.

 

Some hot takes, too - which can be expected.  But a really enjoyable read overall.

 

[Bills Bud]

Our WRs is the biggest concern, Davis couldn’t get off the line on that slant, Shakir had a bad drop, Sherfield is too small. Also Kincaid looked small, smaller than Knox

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Bills Bud said:

Our WRs is the biggest concern, Davis couldn’t get off the line on that slant, Shakir had a bad drop, Sherfield is too small. Also Kincaid looked small, smaller than Knox

Kincaid and Knox are both 6’-4”, but Kincaid is 240lbs compared to 254lbs for Knox. 

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, Bills Bud said:

Our WRs is the biggest concern, Davis couldn’t get off the line on that slant, Shakir had a bad drop, Sherfield is too small. Also Kincaid looked small, smaller than Knox

 

Sherfield is 6'1" and 205#. 

[Shaw66]

8 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

I don't know that I agree here.  I think the Bills def. wanted to get a good long look at Bates as backup C.  I saw something in an article about wanting to limit the snaps Ryan Bates had to play - which would have been A Lot if he played both G with the 1s and backup C with the 2s.  It was unclear if that was the author's take or something a coach said.  Also that Kromer wanted to see Torrence with both the 1s and 2s (written as though said by McDermott.

 

So I'm at "uncertain what that means" not at "Competition is over, job is won".   I'd go so far as to say Torrence is showing his value as a run blocker, but I'm less clear whether he's ready to rock in pass protection.  

 

I'd. Ike to think you're wrong on these Torrence takes.

 

First, if he's clearly a better run blocking guard, then he's probably already won the job, and his pass blocking is probably irrelevant.  Why?  Because the interior pass blocking was atrocious last season, and Bates gets his fair share of the blame.  Torrence almost certainly won't be worse.

 

Second, I don't buy the idea that Torrence got first team reps because they wanted to give Bates reps at center.  If that's the strategy, why didn't Williams get first team reps over Milano?  Losing Milano is as big a risk as losing Morse, and Bates already has starting experience at center.   No, Torrence got those reps because he already looks like the winner and the coaches needed to see whether he could hold up against first team linemen.  

 

McDermott is always super cautious in commenting on players in situations like this, so what he said doesn't tell us much.

[syhuang]

 

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I'd. Ike to think you're wrong on these Torrence takes.

 

First, if he's clearly a better run blocking guard, then he's probably already won the job, and his pass blocking is probably irrelevant.  Why?  Because the interior pass blocking was atrocious last season, and Bates gets his fair share of the blame.  Torrence almost certainly won't be worse.

 

Second, I don't buy the idea that Torrence got first team reps because they wanted to give Bates reps at center.  If that's the strategy, why didn't Williams get first team reps over Milano?  Losing Milano is as big a risk as losing Morse, and Bates already has starting experience at center.   No, Torrence got those reps because he already looks like the winner and the coaches needed to see whether he could hold up against first team linemen.  

 

McDermott is always super cautious in commenting on players in situations like this, so what he said doesn't tell us much.

 

Every other position on the line was the clear starter, I think we can agree on that.  But just because they may have wanted to see Bates in at center with the 2nd team doesn't mean they couldn't still have started him at RG and then moved him to 2nd team center with Torrence next to him.  That is, it's not like he was on a pitch count.

 

And in any case, Torrence did nothing to warrant demoting him to 2nd team with his performance.  So he'll stay there.

[SectionC3]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Every other position on the line was the clear starter, I think we can agree on that.  But just because they may have wanted to see Bates in at center with the 2nd team doesn't mean they couldn't still have started him at RG and then moved him to 2nd team center with Torrence next to him.  That is, it's not like he was on a pitch count.

 

And in any case, Torrence did nothing to warrant demoting him to 2nd team with his performance.  So he'll stay there.

Depends on how his hands are taped, right?  Totally agree - they could have made a quick switch.  Torrence starting at RG speaks for itself. 

[Kwai San]

14 hours ago, Lost said:

Good assessment Gunner.

 

I don't ever want to see Kyle Allen on the field again.

 I totally agree with BOTH statements above......

[Kwai San]

13 hours ago, fergie's ire said:

I wonder if Shorter is a candidate to mysteriously fall to the ground screaming "My LEG!  MY LEGGGGG!!" in the last preseason game and then be awarded the Marquez Stevenson "spend the year on IR" award.

 

Based on Gunner's description of Basham's success it seems like he could play the Shaq role making Lawson the odd man out.  Of course, it might come down to what players draw an interest from other teams.  They might be able to trade Basham for something but not Shaq.  Just seems that Basham still has potential upside so if he can already come close to giving us what Shaq gives us, it would make sense to stick with the younger player.

 

I really hope Basham isn't Teller 2.0.  I know I know, Boogie has been here 2 years but still......

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

Every other position on the line was the clear starter, I think we can agree on that.  But just because they may have wanted to see Bates in at center with the 2nd team doesn't mean they couldn't still have started him at RG and then moved him to 2nd team center with Torrence next to him.  That is, it's not like he was on a pitch count.

 

I think the starters are, in fact, on snap counts. For example, Joe Buscaglia tracks these things methodically and points out that Kincaid got 2 series, 4 snaps total.  Poyer and Hyde were given exactly 10 snaps, and pulled in the middle of a series

 

The idea, I believe, is to help them take a step into football shape with minimal risk of injury - and also, to keep them where they were able to practice today.

 

Now I can't tell you for sure if that was the Bills thinking with Bates, or if they in fact do think of Torrance as the starter now.

 

But I can tell you there IS a reason to not start Bates at RG then give him 2nd team C snaps, and that is it.

[Nephilim17]

45 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Second, I don't buy the idea that Torrence got first team reps because they wanted to give Bates reps at center.  If that's the strategy, why didn't Williams get first team reps over Milano?  Losing Milano is as big a risk as losing Morse,

Sorry, Shaw, but Milano is locked up through the end of 2026 and Morse is just locked up through the end of 2024. Plus, Morse's considerable concussion history makes him liable to stop playing at literally any game he takes another big shot to the head.

How do you figure losing Morse and Milano are equal?

[RenoNVBillsfan]

Just watched Shakir make 2 spectacular catches in the 2nd qtr…only to drop a much easier catch that would have continued moving the chain. So, making catches of high degrees of difficulty can’t be ignored as a positive. Let’s see how it plays out but if I’m McD I’d have this guy in for longer preseason stretches and preferably with Barkley as QB. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by RenoNVBillsfan

[Ralonzo]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Back by absolutely no popular acclaim it's Gunner's pre-season good night bad night thread. A sort of "Sal's arrow up / arrow down" but for the thinking man . The Bills made it 11 wins from their last 12 pre-season outings with victory over the Colts but what did it mean for those position groups and players where questions abound. Here's my take:

 

Good Night for...

 

The Running Backs

O'Cyrus Torrence

Boogie Basham - The one place where I think the Bills are guaranteed to cut someone who makes another NFL roster this season is defensive line. They have 5 proven vet tackles (Jones, Oliver, Phillips, Settle, Ford) and 6 proved vet edge players (Von, Groot, AJE, Floyd, Boogie and Shaq). I don't think they can keep 11. Shaq is the "easiest" cut of those but he has played a very specific role for the Bills in the past as an edge setting end and so I was leaning towards Boogie maybe being traded. But he was active yesterday, made a couple of nice run stops and had a sack. He hasn't flashed much in camp so it was a performance he needed. 

 

Ryan Van Demark - if there is a player who I would have told you a week ago had no shot at the 53 that I'm now seeing a path for - he is the guy!

 

Fire away guys.... thoughts, comments, questions always welcome. I will be back with another of these after pre-season game 2!!

 

Focused on the trenches for the first half rewatch. If not Torrence, then Eli Ankou was the best Bill on the field. For all the Poona Ford hype he got rekt 2 out of every 3 plays. Ankou was disruptive constantly.

[Beck Water]

15 hours ago, nkreed said:

The only time I noticed Kincaid in the game was a terrible attempt at a block when lined up in line. He totally whiffed and his assignment tackled the RB in the backfield. (Can't remember when but he was on Left side of line)

 

Heh.  Well.  I noticed Kincaid on the throw to Sherfield that was almost picked (think it was Kyle Allen's first pass, and he stared Sherfield down so intensely that if his eyes were lasers, Sherfield would be perforated.

 

That's Kincaid on the buffalo, basically knocking the Colt in coverage flat.

 

Is that legal or is that OPI?

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Beck Water